A comparison of TKD to BJJ and Modern Arnis

[mickeymouse]

Many years ago I studied TKD, but I hated learning the katas. Do BJJ and Modern Arnis require one to learn data? I want something with more practical knowledge that I can use in a fight. I like the idea of grappling in BJJ, and cane fighting in Modern Arnis.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I presume that "data" was a typo and you meant "kata".

I can't speak for Modern Arnis, but BJJ does not have kata.

Most BJJ gyms do not require memorization as such. The expectation for promotion is generally that you have functional skills in the various positions that you might end up in. So the teacher would generally look at things like how good you are at passing guard, escaping mount, finishing submissions from side control, etc in sparring.

A small minority of schools have some sort of standardized curriculum that you need to be able to demonstrate during belt tests (specific escapes from a headlock or a bear hug, for example), but not a set sequence of solo moves that you have to memorize like a Karate kata or a TKD poomsae.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Many years ago I studied TKD, but I hated learning the katas. Do BJJ and Modern Arnis require one to learn data? I want something with more practical knowledge that I can use in a fight. I like the idea of grappling in BJJ, and cane fighting in Modern Arnis.

HI MM

Traditional Modern Arnis has four (4) Cane / Stick / Weapon Forms (All the same except one learns some nuances between weapons) and Eight (8) empty hand forms.
Some only teach five for black belt and the rest are beyond black belt.

Some organizations will spar more than others.

Some teachers are more self defense based.

What area of the world / country / state or province you are looking to train in?
I might be able to point out some instructors in that area.

I am not associated with a larger organization officially. I do have the phone numbers of many of the senior most of the organizations or know how to contact them.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

bjj dont have kata i think kali or eskrima does

 

[ap Oweyn]

bjj dont have kata i think kali or eskrima does

Kali and eskrima are very generic titles. It'll depend much more on the style or organisation whether forms are practiced. As Rich said above, Modern Arnis often uses them. (I recall them being called "anyos" in MA, but he'd be a better reference for that. I trained with a Modern Arnis group for years, but I didn't formally study the style; we just trained together.) We did them in Doce Pares (where we called them "sayaw"), but I think my school created those, so I'm not clear how strong a tradition that is within DP overall. I never got the sense that GM Cacoy had much interest in them.

Personally, I don't teach forms. But the various forms of kali, eskrima, and arnis are less regulated than some styles, so it's much more variable.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Kali and eskrima are very generic titles. It'll depend much more on the style or organisation whether forms are practiced. As Rich said above, Modern Arnis often uses them. (I recall them being called "anyos" in MA, but he'd be a better reference for that. I trained with a Modern Arnis group for years, but I didn't formally study the style; we just trained together.) We did them in Doce Pares (where we called them "sayaw"), but I think my school created those, so I'm not clear how strong a tradition that is within DP overall. I never got the sense that GM Cacoy had much interest in them.

Personally, I don't teach forms. But the various forms of kali, eskrima, and arnis are less regulated than some styles, so it's much more variable.

Yes, Forms in Modern Arnis are called Anyos.

Some systems have two man forms which can lead to Box drills which allows for variation and eventually random movement. Not doing the simplest box movement the fastest.

 

[ap Oweyn]

Yes, Forms in Modern Arnis are called Anyos.

Some systems have two man forms which can lead to Box drills which allows for variation and eventually random movement. Not doing the simplest box movement the fastest.

Is that Tapi-Tapi? Or is that something else?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Is that Tapi-Tapi? Or is that something else?

Semi Sparring which was the for-runner to the modern Tapi-tapi was a standard box drill which could lead to the random.

The 6-10-8 count drill was taught with each side learning three attacks and three blocks for those attacks and then each side doing them.
Then the students learn to add in one more attack and block for that attack and they both do it.
Then the 8 count shows that only one side is possible to do it.
This means that one can add in any attack and block and go back to the same original box.

Tapi-Tapi removed the low strikes and footwork and focused on the pocket with mid and upper level strikes.
This then lead to the Tapi-Tapi Lock flow.
Note: Right on Right (R-R) can be mirrored with Left on Left (L-L)
Yet Left on Right can be mirrored with Right on Left only not the same as R-R or L-L
Note: Left side wielder usually was considered the driver so that there would be no collision of both going for it at the same time.
When using same side, one would be called out as the driver. The other was referred to as the passenger and the driver led them down the path.

The Random requires one to be able to work with either hand and either one executing the technique.
Yet breaking it down makes it easier to learn.

The drawback to these types of drills as that people think that going fast is better than going at the proper time and being random.
Being fast is fun and can help. Yet it is not the end.

Note: Sinawali's with switching between them can also be a two man drill with countdown call out for the switch to learning to random switch.
This is where the single cane versus double cane comes into play if one did not see it or catch and needs to block and block and then resync to the pattern.

So, Yes Tapi-Tapi and more