4 armed robbers Vs. 1 Jujitsu Expert

[Sukerkin]

If the victim in ths case gets anything more than a "Try and be more careful next time mate, dead muggers still generate paperwork", I would hope that there will be a public uproar about it.

After all, the only way to cut down on the number of urban 'wolves' is if the 'sheep' organise themselves and are allowed to fight back (or transform themselves into sheepdogs).

However, with the defence' lawyer attempting to paint the slain mugger as "an innocent man", I'm sure the incredulity factor will prevail.

 

[Omar B]

As bad as it seems at least NY here is not nearly as violent as Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago.

 

[tellner]

Hell, four against one unarmed is life threatening.

 

[KenpoTex]

looks like there's more to the story...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...transit_worker_fights_back_at_4_attacker.html

 

[Sukerkin]

That changes the complexion markedly of our feelings about the chap who died - poor fellow. It would seem the lawyer wasn't talking such rot after all when calling him an "Innocent man".

 

[KenpoTex]

That changes the complexion markedly of our feelings about the chap who died - poor fellow. It would seem the lawyer wasn't talking such rot after all when calling him an "Innocent man".

no doubt...

The moral? charging into the middle of a 3-on-1 knife fight might be hazardous to your health. His courage and willingness to help a stranger in distress are to be commended but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

 

[Guardian]

That changes the complexion markedly of our feelings about the chap who died - poor fellow. It would seem the lawyer wasn't talking such rot after all when calling him an "Innocent man".

I don't think personally it changes anything, the individual being attacked would have no way of knowing that the 4th individual was friend or foe, in the heat of a fight, your not taking score of who is who, your defending yourself, no time to size up the situation especially when knifes or guns ar involved.

I agree with Kenpotex on his comments, discretion is the better part of valor in this case. I'm sure this guy regrets taking an innocent life, but he had no idea.

I don't know about your States but Texas is bringing some new laws into play that if your defending yourself and it's justified, civil lawsuits will follow criminal portion also, if innocent, you will not be allowed to be sued in civil court either. From what I understand, 15 other states have already enacted these laws.

 

[jks9199]

no doubt...

The moral? charging into the middle of a 3-on-1 knife fight might be hazardous to your health. His courage and willingness to help a stranger in distress are to be commended but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

I don't think personally it changes anything, the individual being attacked would have no way of knowing that the 4th individual was friend or foe, in the heat of a fight, your not taking score of who is who, your defending yourself, no time to size up the situation especially when knifes or guns ar involved.

I agree with Kenpotex on his comments, discretion is the better part of valor in this case. I'm sure this guy regrets taking an innocent life, but he had no idea.

It appears this incident is a great example of the dangers of jumping into the fray when you don't know what's going on. It's quite possible that to a bystander coming on this fight, it would have looked like the jujitsu guy was one of the attackers! A 911 call might have been lots more help... and safer.

In this incident, I suspect that the jujitsu fighter will probably not be charged; he was defending himself in a fight. The original attackers remain responsible for the death of the bystander; he died as a result of their felony.

 

[MA-Caver]

4 attackers 1 knife 1 multiple black belt... who comes out ahead? Naturally the BB. Yeah I also disagree with the attorney on the use of the word "innocent". (breathe ralph breathe). At least the police have it right that it was indeed self defense. 4 to 1 are odds are not innocent. That's pack mentality there, wild dogs, intimidation including the use of a knife, at night... animals.
Here's another video/story link... http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/...n=5&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1
This has a bit more info which is of interest. The 4 suspects ranged in ages from 28 (dead) to as young as 15. I found this troublesome to think about. An older guy leading a group of younger ones... what is he teaching them? How to inflict harm upon others and attacking the innocent. It's good that this (older) scumbag is out of the picture permanently so to not spread his filth among the young. Hopefully the 15 yr. old has learned a valuable lesson and it's a good lesson not the bad one of have more attackers and a gun next time. At 15 he's still young enough to make an impression and to be "scared straight".
I am finding myself hopeful that the prosecutor of the case will take in to an account that the youngest was probably coerced into joining in not knowing better. I'm not saying 15 is being naive and innocent, I've met vicious 15 year (and younger) old kids, but they're that way because they were taught to be that way by someone else... likely an older sibling or neighbor. There's a chance to head this kid off at the pass. It'd be nice if the BB who fought back decides to take the kid under his wing.

The reporter in the second video needs to understand her terminology, calling the art used to defend "Karate", using a generic term like that isn't good. At least the other reporter got it right, and probably only because he went to the school and talked to the instructor.

looks like there's more to the story...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...transit_worker_fights_back_at_4_attacker.html

Aww man, so the dead guy wasn't even part of the attack? My bad! That is a tragedy now that this part comes out.

The good Samaritan, 28-year-old Flonarza Byas, waded into the midnight free-for-all not knowing who needed help, police sources said.
Byas was stabbed nine times and fatally wounded at W. 139th St. and St. Nicholas Ave.
"He didn't know who was the good guy or who was the bad guys," a police source said.
Investigators said it's possible that off-duty conductor Maurice Parks - a small but muscular martial arts expert - and the three thugs attempting to rob him all turned on Byas during the chaos because no one knew who he was.

To jump into the middle of a fight like that without knowing who's who... geez. I can understand wanting to help and am sorry the guy is dead but seems that he should've at least tried to identify himself... but in the heat of that moment who can you believe? Got three guys (now) trying to rob/hurt/kill you and this new guy shows up... is he on my side or theirs? How do you know for sure... especially right there in the middle of the fracas?

 

[Sukerkin]

I don't think personally it changes anything, the individual being attacked would have no way of knowing that the 4th individual was friend or foe, in the heat of a fight, your not taking score of who is who, your defending yourself, no time to size up the situation especially when knifes or guns ar involved.

Aye, I agree, I didn't mean to imply that it changed the legal situation one whit.

All I meant was that now it turns out that the chap who got killed was trying to help, our feelings can turn from those of "he got what he deserved" to those of proper human sympathy for a man slain whilst enacting a decent impulse.

 

[Omar B]

If he was helping then it's a shame that he died, though I'm kinda leary of the whole good samartitan thing in this case. It's a shame that a person died whatever his motivation, honorable or not.

Here's a question for ya. Have you ever held back in a self defence situation? I ask because once I was attacked by two (they came out with a broken wrist and broken nose) but I saw many openings in there where I could have killed rather than simply hurt.

 

[MA-Caver]

Here's a question for ya. Have you ever held back in a self defence situation? I ask because once I was attacked by two (they came out with a broken wrist and broken nose) but I saw many openings in there where I could have killed rather than simply hurt.

You, in my opinion did the right thing. MA is not just about self-defense it's about control of our selves with the skills learned as well. Learning when to stop is essential to any MA-ist. Knowing when enough is enough and you have incapacitated your attackers to where they cannot hurt you anymore.
MA (any style) teaches how to prevent harm to us or to others, not to make us killers. Respectfully speaking that's the military's job. We learn techniques over time that will kill a person but it's always, always up to us to utilize them or not in any given situation.

 

[Carol]

Here's a question for ya. Have you ever held back in a self defence situation? I ask because once I was attacked by two (they came out with a broken wrist and broken nose) but I saw many openings in there where I could have killed rather than simply hurt.

This is why learning control is important. There are guys out and around martial arts classes that cop an attitude "what's in it for me" attitude in classes when it comes to training with a woman or a smaller teen. What's in it for the person is, while not only helping a fellow student learn, one learns enough control so one can look for and find the opportunities to seriously harm (or worse...) another person, but not act on those opportunities unless truly necessary.

 

[Omar B]

Truthfully, I hate hitting people. Even in cases of self defense after the adrenalin settles I usually feel really horrible about it, even though I didnt kill the guy.

 

[MA-Caver]

Truthfully, I hate hitting people. Even in cases of self defense after the adrenalin settles I usually feel really horrible about it, even though I didn't kill the guy.

If you ENJOYED hitting people I'd have serious doubts about you being a decent human being. I don't think anyone decent actually enjoys inflicting pain (out of mean-ness). I don't like it but in cases of self defense it's a necessary thing. The original monks who initiated the Martial Art styles we so love today probably didn't like the idea of having to hit/hurt others... it went totally against their beliefs... but learn/create/teach their methods they did and it's helped millions in so many ways... including the intended purpose.
I can guess the Jujitsu BB is (inwardly) regretting what he HAD to do. Especially realizing that one of them was a kid and the others were just barely adults. But what's the point of studying Martial Arts (any style) if you're going to have a pacifist view on things?
It's nice to be assertive but sometimes you have to be aggressive or at least passive aggressive to avoid situations like what that guy got into. It could've been worse.

 

[Sukerkin]

I quite agree that not many of us would want much to do with someone who enjoyed inflicting pain on others (and most sensei are even today quite good at winowing those people out before they learn much).

The point about adjusting your response to the threat level is a very interesting and important one in the martial arts. It's central to conflict resolution and it's no easy thing to learn.

One 'could've been' confrontation many years ago was defused by, of all things to choose to do, my letting the other chap thump me. I judged that he wouldn't hurt me too badly with one punch and he needed to show his physical dominance to 'resolve' the situation. He hit me, I did some version of "Ow, what's that for?", he spouted off (about me attempting to 'steal his girl') and, the important bit, walked away.

Without my years in the martial arts that may well have devolved into a nasty little fight, primarily because I was unjustly accused and that never fails to get my back up (darned inconvenient sense of justice and fair-play ).

It's one of the key factors that those who have never trained seldom grasp i.e. that training how to do something violent gives you the option not to do it by choice.

 

[chinto]

yep he is a good man and fought well ! as to the ******* who with 3 friends attacked him.. to bad all 4 are not dead. unfortunate if it is on the east coast as it sound.. would have to be to train in Harlem he may have legal problems for hurting that poor armed attacker out to kill him. sad but true and why I will NEVER live east of the Mississippi river!!!

 

[pstarr]

Yes, it's a very inspiring story! Thanks for sharing it!

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Truthfully, I hate hitting people. Even in cases of self defense after the adrenalin settles I usually feel really horrible about it, even though I didnt kill the guy.

Feeling bad about doing violence upon someone is a surefire sign of sanity.

Doesn't mean it's never necessary but it's gotta be treated like work. No less. No more. This person is neither the Sole Object of my Hatred nor a Poor Misunderstood Hoodlum. He/she is no less and no more than just another job.

 

[Burnerbob]

I had a situation ten years ago. Was driving a Taxi part time. 15 year old decided to rob me and hit me with a baseball bat. I defended myself and broke his ribs.
When I went to court, the judge said "Since you have Martial Arts training, I am going to charge you with excessive use of force"
Go figure that one