Why do Westerners train in exotic unrealistic weapons and ignore practical ones like baseball bats?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Bullsherdog, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I listened to or read (don't recall which) the first book or two of that series. I don't remember that - must be later on.
     
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  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    That would be the monster as portrayed in the earlier movies. In the book, the monster is actually something of a Superman. He is physically stronger and more agile and more capable, and is quite intelligent.
     
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  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I thought we were focusing on film versions. If we are going to include written material, we might all be in trouble.
     
  4. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ah...well...
     
  5. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    With the tip of my cap to the Big Bang Theory.....

    If a Zombie bites a Vampire, and the Vampire bites a human, does that human become a Vampire...or does he become a Zombie....or a Zompire?
     
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  6. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge 2nd Black Belt

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    Whatever system taught the Thriller dance as a form would have the advantage.
     
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  7. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Not heard of that series. What's the premise?

    You must have missed the take on Frankenstein's monster from the book series I mentioned ;)

    Which episode is that from?
     
  8. yak sao

    yak sao Master of Arts

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    Wow, you are definitely the MT zombie authority.
    This would make for a great seminar. ;)
     
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  9. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Season 6, The Parking Spot Escalation.....one of my favorites.
     
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  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    When someone asks me what I did on the weekend.
     
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  11. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Anyway the game days gone.


    World war z with brad pit.
     
  12. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Max Brooks, The Zombie Survival Guide, is a good place to start.
     
  13. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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  14. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    Its better than trying to bludeon someone with your hands. Most weapons can be adapted into working in most situations. Like i think the defendu cane(in manuals) can be adapted to a baseball bat well to make it work in said situations.



    Pictures taken from a Get Tough PDF i found. And yes i had to screen cap each one and put it in paint. I dont know how well it will work, but its probbly a acceptable alterative to bludeogning somone with your fists. Especially as once you knock the down, you can just jump on them.

    Also apologies if this is really long and disrupts the flow first time posting pictures here, at least muiltiple in one post.

    Edit: No idea how i got 2 of 2 there. and i named one wrong.

    (my orginal, compartively well written reply got deleted)
     

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  15. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    Better than nothing and sufficent to injure somone with. The only time i have seen people loose a bat is they messed up distance and timing, which is a aquired skill. (i am willing to belive if they did a bat sport (recently) that would be mitigated as well, as swinging is all about distance and timing of the ball) I am not counting the videos you see where they stand there talking and get punched in the face. I think we all know the one i mean.

    Distance and timing seem more perishable skills than how to hold a object. At least, former is faster to loose than latter. I will accept some form of study as contary or support to that statement, just out of instest if any exists.

    Edit: Personally the two ways im going to hold a stick of some description thats two handed, is like a rifle and bayonet, and mainly thrust with it and fight how you would with one. Or over my head with mainly overhead swings. i am definately more likely to use it like the former.

    Second edit: above is not applicable to normal baseball bat lengths. At least bayonet fighting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  16. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well no, if you can bludgen someone with your hand its not '' better'' to bludgeoning some one with a club, the end result is the same they are lying bludgeoned on the floor,

    non fire arm weapons are force multipliers that's true but they are very situation and comparative skill dependent

    as above if your trying to swing a bat or stick in a confined space they can be a lot less effective than your fist, i've taken a whole variety of weapons off people over the years, because i had far better reflexes and they had next to no idea how to use them, they swing, they miss i get them,. if someone was trying to hit me with that stick, they may (but probably wont) hit me once, if that doesn't result in me being unconscious, then they have lost, il take it off them and stick it up their @@@@
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  17. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    First: You basically admitted weapons are a force muiltiplier so no dispute. But, it is objectively better in hitting somone with a weapon, as it puts your body at less risk and is pending material and construct of the weapon, easier to hurt them, with less risk to yourself.

    Second: That is the obvous weakness of a baseballbat and why i posted defendu sitck work as a example to a way to make it function better especially in confined spaces. But with some practice im sure you can use a baseball bat like you would in baseball and get timing etc down for combat. (just most people dont do that, and not so much in confied spaces) But then, plenty of people have been beaten with people with baseball bats or other weapons that have had little practice etc. Willing to belive aggression and willingness to maim mitigates some of these issues.

    The stick in the pictures has no relation to the conversation barring hand postioning and movement/postioning of the weapon, for the record.

    I really wish there was some form of stat to see if baseball will help you in using a baseball bat as a weapon. Due to the need when swinging in timing and distance management. (in terms of swining when the ball is in optimal range to your bat)



    Also to my first reply here, they also use firearms in the first listed show. and the prequel to train to busan has people (who arent military/police) using bats and the like and the military and police using firearms and riot equipment. Just thought i would eleborate on that one further as it always annoys me when i think i should have more. (i havent seen train to busan)
     
  18. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Except a ball doesn't slow down and feint as it's coming in. A ball isn't trying not to be hit. It's just flying along a path.

    Have you been training martial arts? I have no idea where you're getting the idea that simply throwing haymakers is a viable strategy in a fight.

    Instead of trying to logic your way through it, you can take lessons from people who actually know how to use those weapons and actually train with them. Your thoughts on how to use a stick weapon like a spear (which has an edge and a point, is why it's used that way) make no sense at all.

    Jobo, he's not talking about confined space (I think). He's talking about swinging the bat like you would if you were trying to hit a ball, instead of swinging like you're trying to hit a person.
     
  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    its hard enough getting some of these concepts accross to people who have been training unrealisticaly, its just about impossible with people like you who have only ever seen unreastic demonstrations on you tube etal'

    hitting someone who doesn't want to be hit with a big stick is very very difficult, with a BBB there's a sweet spot of say 8' , if they move a foot closer to you then all the force is gone, if they move 6'' inches back you miss.

    if you miss, you've lost, the more ''force'' you put into the initial swing, the more wide open you are to a counter attack.

    the less force you put in the easier it is for them to avoid the bat. its a once chance thing

    if i had my choice of club, it would be an old style( short) policeman truncheon, they gave them longer trounchens as they kept killing people with the short ones
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    That works for me....when the attacker is doing it :D:D123
     
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