How would apply the increased-resistance training model to a striking art?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by skribs, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    On this forum, we've discussed several times over the concept of increasing resistance in drills until you have a usable technique. The 5-step process, as best I can describe, is:

    1. Active Compliance or Step-by-Step Solo Drills - Grab your partner, your partner kinda throws themselves to teach you the leverage point and power direction of the technique. Or do the move step-by-step by yourself to memorize the steps in the process.
    2. Passive Compliance or Smooth Solo Drills - Your partner lets you execute the technique but doesn't help you. Or do the move in a smooth motion by yourself.
    3. Passive Resistance - Your partner will use strength to fight against your technique, but won't actively fight back against you.
    4. Active Resistance - Your partner will actively look for weaknesses or openings you leave in your technique and take advantage.
    5. Sparring, Experimentation, and Variation - Apply the technique in a live scenario, or go back to Steps 1-4 to play around with the technique in different situations or different methods.
    This process works really well when talking about grappling arts. I'm trying now to figure out if it can universally cover martial arts (if you can include striking arts with it). This leads me to a question, and two possible follow-up questions.
    • Can the model I described be used to cover striking techniques?
    • If yes, how would you describe the steps in the model to cover striking techniques?
    • If no, how many steps would you include in a model to cover striking techniques?
    As it is right now, my model has a hole in it. I need to know whether that hole needs to be patched, or if I need a second model.
     
  2. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Using your model.

    1. Teach Techniques
    2. Drill Techniques with Compliant Partner
    3. Drill Techniques with Partner Defending
    4. Drill Techniques with Partner defending and then Countering at openings
    5. Live Sparring
     
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  3. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Here's how I do it:
    Phase 1: train technique - Teaching movement and structure of the strike

    Phase 2: teach application concept - Some strikes have more than one application. This covers base application and 2 variables

    Phase 3: Train strike power and speed -teach control of technique.

    Phase 4. Application Training Intro to actual use - spar to learn. Light sparrying. Sparring has to be light enough for each, so they aren't afraid of getting hit every time the get it wrong. I also helps to reduce head trauma.

    Phase 5. Application shadow boxing. 1 new technique mixed in with previous techniques learned. This is free form training.

    Phase 6: Medium sparring - verify assumptions made about the technique and learn how to trust the technique. Assumptions are anything you may not have understood about the technique. Technique always work, out understanding of it is the problem. When a technique doesn't work then there is a 90% chance you are using it incorrectly. Usually this is because of assumptions of how you "Think" it "Should" work.

    Phase 7: Return to phase 2: for unsuccessful application use. Work your way back to Phase 7. Combo training of successful tecni5 via shadow boxing

    Phase 8 : hard sparring with control. It should be hard enough to make you worry about messing up and getting hurt because of a mistake. But it shouldn't be so hard that you can't pull power or redirect to prevent injury.

    Phase 8 will test your confidence and trust in a technique. If you don't trust the technique at this point then you either progressed to fast or you failed to make real corrections So start at Phase 2 if you don't trust your technique or if you feel that using a technique will cause you to lose.
     
  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    or replace all of those with one phase, take up boxing
     
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  5. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    That's an overly simplistic view of boxing.
     
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  6. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    your way over complicating it
    step one, practise punching something,
    step two practise punching something that keeps moving
    step three practising punching something that hits you back

    when you can achieve step two with out step three happening your done
     
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  7. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    @CB Jones @JowGaWolf

    Kind of combining your ideas, this is what I come up with:
    1. Train the technique step-by-step
    2. Smooth out the motion, train concepts, train combinations
    3. Increase speed and power, rote partner drills
    4. Live partner drills where openings are checked
    5. Sparring
    Only problem is Step 4 seems to be something you could do in Step 3. I think I may end up with 2 different models here.
     
  8. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    In any other martial art I've been in, you learn the skills before you spar with them. At the very least, that's a 2-step process.

    Regarding boxing, there's a lot that go into the techniques besides just "punching something". There's proper stance and guard, proper footwork, and combining the two while you execute your punches. This suggests there's at least 3 steps to training.
     
  9. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    Well yes, steps one and two is learning the skill to punch, step three is fighting as the only way to develop the not getting hit skill, which is the st important one
     
  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    There is another issue here and that is "How do you prove your knock down power?"

    I will let you to throw me 10,000 times. There is no way that I'll let you to knock me down 10,000 times.
     
  11. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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  12. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Where my son trains it is common to go through all stages in a single beginner class.

    Often times it works like this:

    Instructor explains and demonstrates a couple techniques (example: backhand and reverse punch)

    Students will drill techniques against bags or pads...first individually then as combo.

    Students will then partner and take turns. One student throws technique...one moves and defends.

    Students will take turns. One student attacks while the other defends and then counters.

    Then start over with another technique and keep adding techniques and combos.

    At the end of class...free sparring.
     
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  13. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    You've spelled it out well -- that's how you do it.

    Let's say the technique you're working on is a simple step/block/strike response to an attack. After some practice without a partner to get the basic motions down, you start working with a partner. At first, they feed a slow, simple punch, exactly fitting the technique. As you get it down -- the speed picks up or the attack goes to a different target, or if you freeze at the end, your partner taps you to let you know you're staying in a vulnerable place, etc. In the end, it should look almost like free sparring or a controlled offense/defense sparring drill.
     
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  14. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Wasn't thinking about increased speed and timing. Silly me.
     
  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I think you are describing Dutch drills.

    Otherwise you can isolate your sparring. Say just jabs for example.
     
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  16. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    What's a Dutch Drill?
     
  17. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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  18. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    This is probably one of the few examples where "show, don't tell" is not helpful. What is a Dutch drill?
     
  19. Gweilo

    Gweilo 2nd Black Belt

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    We use a couple of drills after the basics of striking are taught, first drill 2 student will stand approx 10 foot apart, they will walk towards each other, and deliver 1 strike each, no blocking, parrying etc, each student receives and delivers 1 strike, then move off to 10 foot apart at the opposite ends, turn around and walk towards each other and deliver 2 strikes, up to 10 strikes, then down to 1 strike, 1st with punches, then add other strikes, its not competative, the students just need to find the 1 or 10 places to strike, and once one set is complete we change partners.
    Another drill, all the students walk around the room, not uniformaly, walking amonst each other, at any time a student can strike another student, again no blocking etc, but if you are struck, you must strike back at that student, then its a free for all, so you can be struck by more than 1 student at the same time, again in this drill, you must try to strike each student that strikes you
     
  20. marques

    marques Master Black Belt

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    After the fundamentals:

    1. ‘Choreography’, drill, slow then faster.
    2. Slow, light, limited techniques in sparring, gradually increasing complexity/moves allowed. Short reflection after ‘TKO’.
    3. All-included, from slow to fast (but control, light strikes, not much fear or other emotions).
    4. Heavier sparring, fast, still with some control but increased risk of injuries and fear of getting hurt...

    It may not be the perfect description, but you got the idea.123
     

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