Wing Chun and Chi Kung

JadecloudAlchemist

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But, I disagree that the measurement for someone's level of mastery and correct utilization of chi/qi cannot be based on there "basics" of energy cultivation.

Lets look at small circulation a semi advance form.

If you are keep losing Jing and not transforming it into Qi you will not be able to perform this correctly. This goes back to a very basic theory or San Bao(three treasures)

There are many ways to raise and cultivate energy, and not all of them are Eastern.
I agree and I am not against them. I only speak about Qigong though.

Just because someone uses qi/chi/energy and cultivates it differently than what you were taught doesn't make it 'wrong" or inferior. Just different.
Well the different sects of Taoism would say otherwise about different cultivation methods and disagree with the Buddhist cultivation but the theory still remains the same.
Even in Sexual Taoism is the same which is why such classics as the Harmonizing Yin and Yang could be read different ways.

Some methods may work better for one person than another, just like regular martial arts. Sure, some styles my be more efficient, but that doesn't always make them the best for every individual.
I agree not every Qigong set is for everyone. Sometimes you have to go thru forms like Ba duan jin to correct stagnation in order to be able to go to other forms.

I've heard people say alot that you can 'hurt' yourself with your own energy if you do things 'incorrectly'. I do wonder, and it's possibly out of ignorance, but how can you harm yourself with your own energy?
There are plenty of people who do this. Xue Sheng here loves to mention Qigong psychosis as much as he likes mentioning Michelle Yeoh. Some people have actually gone blind practicing incorrectly.
How do people injure themselves by NOT UNDERSTANDING THEORY!!

Especially when simply meditating and breathing on increasing flow, cultivation, and such? The only thing I could think of is one may get too much energy built up and need to ground the excess energy?

If it enters a cavity and causes stagnation(this sometimes happen in the Hui yin point when men try to stop there ejaculation)

It can happen at the Jade Pillow point (nao hu GV17) when performing small circulation because it is a difficult spot to direct Qi it can stagnate causing Headaches and Neck pain.

Not wanting to start a fight now, just really curious since I've been introduced to a different way of thinking about chi/qi than alot of folks that talk about the eastern ways.
No fighting at all
I am not interested in other systems and since Qi is a Chinese word it belongs in Qigong.
 

Si-Je

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I've read an article online about how practicing Qi can be dangerous to mental states. I.e. going blind, crazy, becoming unbalanced. (can't remember what article) is this more what your talking about the dangers of QI done improperly?

I would think that if one was going to "block" off a part of bodily function (as your example with ejaculation) these types of usage would be more dangerous than most because of the nature of blocking off qi flow to a part or parts of the body. i.e., don't do that if you don't know how to unblock it first?
Is this type the dangers of Qi done improperly that your speaking of?
I'm not sure how you could make yourself blind, would that be done in similar fashion as blocking off flow for whatever reason at the time?

I'm new to this on a theory level. So, I do require alot of explaination. I've done alot of energy/Qi (i guess) work of various types before, but not much theory at all.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Well with that being said. I dont have much to argue with. On that point...very well said. Thank You...


Fair enough though the link does try to come off as a teaching exercise.


I agree with needing a teacher.



I am also someone who is big on theory. If you practice without knowing theory you are wasting time. For example if you do not know San Bao,Kan and Li, Yin and Yang and Five element theory you will only waste the energy you are culivating. People try holding their breath and placing their attention at a particular organ resulting in Qi stagnation.

I don't disagree with aggresive Qi which would be called Fire Qi. I suspect I misread your wording as Qi in the Kidney area as Fire Qi which it is Water Qi.

I am also big on theory because many teachers teach their students Qigong exercises that 1.Can damage students who do not know what they are doing 2. Students can not progress in higher levels of cultivation because their basic levels have not been developed correctly.

One of Dr. Jwing Ming Yang's student told me that the way to see if someone is doing Tai chi chuan correctly was to refer to the classics.

In other words by knowing theory you can see who is an accomplished Qigong teacher and who is not. Which is why those who are into Newage Qigong mix their theories with other Newage or Yoga and have mixed results with their classes.

I have been to a good amount of Qigong teachers some who even taught at the Acupunture school I went to who did not know much on Qigong theory but here they were teaching it!!
I think a Qigong teacher should be able to pick apart any Qigong set and be able to see how in theory it works and why it works.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Very interesting.



Lets look at small circulation a semi advance form.

If you are keep losing Jing and not transforming it into Qi you will not be able to perform this correctly. This goes back to a very basic theory or San Bao(three treasures)

I agree and I am not against them. I only speak about Qigong though.

Well the different sects of Taoism would say otherwise about different cultivation methods and disagree with the Buddhist cultivation but the theory still remains the same.
Even in Sexual Taoism is the same which is why such classics as the Harmonizing Yin and Yang could be read different ways.


I agree not every Qigong set is for everyone. Sometimes you have to go thru forms like Ba duan jin to correct stagnation in order to be able to go to other forms.

There are plenty of people who do this. Xue Sheng here loves to mention Qigong psychosis as much as he likes mentioning Michelle Yeoh. Some people have actually gone blind practicing incorrectly.
How do people injure themselves by NOT UNDERSTANDING THEORY!!



If it enters a cavity and causes stagnation(this sometimes happen in the Hui yin point when men try to stop there ejaculation)

It can happen at the Jade Pillow point (nao hu GV17) when performing small circulation because it is a difficult spot to direct Qi it can stagnate causing Headaches and Neck pain.

No fighting at all
I am not interested in other systems and since Qi is a Chinese word it belongs in Qigong.
 

Xue Sheng

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There are plenty of people who do this. Xue Sheng here loves to mention Qigong psychosis as much as he likes mentioning Michelle Yeoh. Some people have actually gone blind practicing incorrectly.
How do people injure themselves by NOT UNDERSTANDING THEORY!!

I agree...... and..... actually I like to mention Michelle Yeoh more.... I will spare all the linked photo THIS time :D

My Wife is a TCM OMD from China and when she was in college there was a fellow student in her class that was actually a rather good Bagua practitioner that got into high levels Qigong on his own because he felt he could handle high levels since he was a Bagua guy and in TCM school.

Where once she would see him doing his Bagua very smoothly and rather effortlessly he later, after getting heavily into whatever form of Qigong he tried, was having trouble walking correctly and babbling to himself constantly. He left school and she has no idea what became of him but all involved and Qigong professor (yes they have those at TCM Universities in China) were pretty sure it was related to his attempting to train high levels of Qigong on his own, that is after they found out that is what he had done (possibly Qigong psychosis - DSM-IV).

As my wife told me back when I was working with the higher level stuff and only seeing a Sifu once every couple of months. If I have a problem she can try and fix the problem but the severity of the problem decides the success of treatment. Where a qualified Qigong Sifu (and she is talking one of those older guys that have been at it for 30 years or more that studies with a guy much older [with more experience] than them for a long time) can see the problems sometimes before you notice them and correct them and there will be no side effects. But left untreated they can really mess you up.

Qigong training is a lot more serious than most people think.
 

Si-Je

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Xue, what is Qigong psychosis - DSM-IV?
How is this done to yourself, I would like to avoid such unpleasent sounding qi experiences.

Another question, do you ground your energy in eastern qigong?
 
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Yoshiyahu

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This Discussion is about get incredible deep. Wow...Can't wait to hear where it goes. My Sifu talked about something similiar as well...


Xue, what is Qigong psychosis - DSM-IV?
How is this done to yourself, I would like to avoid such unpleasent sounding qi experiences.

Another question, do you ground your energy in eastern qigong?
 

Si-Je

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This Discussion is about get incredible deep. Wow...Can't wait to hear where it goes. My Sifu talked about something similiar as well...

which, the craziness, or the grounding? :)
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Well I am still waiting on Jade cloud to answer your first question about Grounding the energy. I can't wait to hear it. I usually get rid of my Excess Chi another way. lol...

which, the craziness, or the grounding? :)
 

Si-Je

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Well I am still waiting on Jade cloud to answer your first question about Grounding the energy. I can't wait to hear it. I usually get rid of my Excess Chi another way. lol...

Well we can skip that question if no one wants to answer it.
But, I am really curious about the grounding. That drill you sent makes need for me to ground after, too much energy left over unless I hit a bag after. (when we get one)

Although I shutter to think how you may get rid of exces Chi. lol! :p
 

JadecloudAlchemist

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I've read an article online about how practicing Qi can be dangerous to mental states. I.e. going blind, crazy, becoming unbalanced. (can't remember what article) is this more what your talking about the dangers of QI done improperly?

I think alot of things can go wrong. You can damage the organs,You may have problems during Ab breathing. A teacher can fix these problems and watch to make sure they do not occur or worsen.

I would think that if one was going to "block" off a part of bodily function (as your example with ejaculation) these types of usage would be more dangerous than most because of the nature of blocking off qi flow to a part or parts of the body. i.e., don't do that if you don't know how to unblock it first?
Well not all blocking is dangerous if done correctly. Holding up the anus,Hands seals,Legs crossed,Tongue at roof of mouth they all have there place. I am sure it is possible for stagnation to occur. You need to know how to perform it and why you are performing it.
Is this type the dangers of Qi done improperly that your speaking of?
Some of it yes. Others can go into catagories such as don't practice in stormy weather or right after sex to don't practice this type in this season or at a certain age.

I'm not sure how you could make yourself blind, would that be done in similar fashion as blocking off flow for whatever reason at the time?
In some stages there is an exercise in which you drawn in the Sun by looking at it. It would not surprise me someone may try that and become blind. I suppose it would be case by case.
 

Si-Je

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Thanks for the post.
But, more questions arise. (sorry)
Why would you look into the sun? Litteraly?

And do you ground excess energy after working with Qi? If so, how?
I do it one way, and was wondering if their were different, or more effecient ways of grounding.
 

Si-Je

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Thanks a lot now I have this horrible mental image burned into my brain that I will never be able to erase .

I was blushing when I typed it, don't feel bad! But, he set it up, couldn't help it. :angel:
 

JadecloudAlchemist

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Why would you look into the sun? Litteraly?
I don't practice this nor do I teach it because I am not interested in it at least not now.

There are more esoteric Qigong exercises that allow you to absorb Sun and Moon and even I shudder go to different planets.

Like I said I do not practice these but they do exist.

And do you ground excess energy after working with Qi? If so, how?
As in filling Qihai (CV7) The lower dan tian? Massaging the body to even the flow? I don't understand the question.
 

Si-Je

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Why do you shutter to go to different planets? Isn't the Macrocosom in the microcosom? (or do I have that backwards? eep)
I may be thinking of the Tao way of Chi but don't you practice the "universe" inside your body/or Qi?
That's kinda the surface of what I was talking about with that meditation using the light from the sky coming into your head through your crown, the feet root to the earth and take energy from there. Take energy from heaven and earth and the microcosom inside you is pretty much the universe.
But, I didn't get all the way through that book. Maybe I though QiGong taught the same if not similar?
I could be confused, it does happen often. :)
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Your husband is great way to get rid of excess Chi. I am not going into details. But my wife likes it when I don't store my Chi.


Well we can skip that question if no one wants to answer it.
But, I am really curious about the grounding. That drill you sent makes need for me to ground after, too much energy left over unless I hit a bag after. (when we get one)

Although I shutter to think how you may get rid of exces Chi. lol! :p
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Jade cloud said: Some of it yes. Others can go into catagories such as don't practice in stormy weather or right after sex to don't practice this type in this season or at a certain age.

Yoshiyahu: Yes, I have heard from my Sifu and his Sihing that don't give away your Chi after you have cultivated it. Hold on to it. Also they say in Winter you wont to refrain from ejactualation and store more Chi. Also they talk about using sperm to convert to Jing which can be converted to Chi.




I think alot of things can go wrong. You can damage the organs,You may have problems during Ab breathing. A teacher can fix these problems and watch to make sure they do not occur or worsen.

Well not all blocking is dangerous if done correctly. Holding up the anus,Hands seals,Legs crossed,Tongue at roof of mouth they all have there place. I am sure it is possible for stagnation to occur. You need to know how to perform it and why you are performing it.

Some of it yes. Others can go into catagories such as don't practice in stormy weather or right after sex to don't practice this type in this season or at a certain age.

In some stages there is an exercise in which you drawn in the Sun by looking at it. It would not surprise me someone may try that and become blind. I suppose it would be case by case.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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I try not to ground Chi after cultivation. I allow my state to turn natural on its on. My Sifu said after working out don't eat anything for like an hour and don't take cold bath until the body cools down. Otherwise you could send the body into shock. But for me I allow my body to calm naturally. Or I meditate on nothingness. I need the extra energy anyway I have two jobs. But usually I try not to do too much before I am going to sleep. I try to do things early enough so when I need to go bed I don't have to wait three hours. But sometimes I ground my Chi with my Ishah.


Thanks for the post.
But, more questions arise. (sorry)
Why would you look into the sun? Litteraly?

And do you ground excess energy after working with Qi? If so, how?
I do it one way, and was wondering if their were different, or more effecient ways of grounding.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Well now I want to talk about the Three Dan Tiens. Can you share your knowledge of the Three Dan Tiens and their benefits and uses Jadecloud?

Also In my opinion Si-Je is saying what does she do to rid herself of some of energy. Like for instance when you got so much energy or chi it has you like ampted or hyped up and you want to go to bed while your kid is a asleep how to you ground some of that energy or Chi so you won't be so wound up.

If i am wrong in my opinion I apologize Si-Je...


I don't practice this nor do I teach it because I am not interested in it at least not now.

There are more esoteric Qigong exercises that allow you to absorb Sun and Moon and even I shudder go to different planets.

Like I said I do not practice these but they do exist.

As in filling Qihai (CV7) The lower dan tian? Massaging the body to even the flow? I don't understand the question.
 
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