Will Wonders Never Cease?

[Sukerkin]

A Tory, a 'class enemy' of the working people saying something about structuring capitalism into something beneficial for someone other than his rich mates?! I'm flabbergasted and, if he means it, quite hopeful that the Coalition government might yet actually do some good:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16626707

 

[billc]

Let capitalism work, and things will improve. The more the government tries to "structure" capitalism the more corruption and profit making by the politicians. Remember the fourth greatest lie, "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you." The government that does anything but lower taxes to the lowest point possible is just using the power to tax as a way to extort money from private enterprises. Were seeing that here in Illinois where they raised the tax rate on businesses and now they allow businesses special breaks. Unfortunately, only the really large businesses get these breaks. The smaller business are either moving to other states or shutting down. Of course, those special breaks come at a price...

 

[Empty Hands]

Let capitalism work, and things will improve. The more the government tries to "structure" capitalism the more corruption and profit making by the politicians.

Oh, indeed. The 19th century was a paradise on Earth for the working man (and child). Things only got worse for the worker when the government came along and mandated 40 hour work weeks, overtime pay, job protection due to sick leave and the like, and tightly regulating child labor. When will the government remove the cruel oppression of the 40 hour work week from our bowed necks! Our children are crying out to work in the factories once again!

 

[Ken Morgan]

The past 60 years of government intervention just means our great grandchildren will be paying for the services we are using today.

Unrestrained capitalism is not the answer either.

The answer is a balance somewhere in the middle, sometimes you need to move to the right on some issues, sometimes to the left.

One thing is for certain though, we need to pay down the debts we owe and not leave them for future generations.

 

[ballen0351]

One thing is for certain though, we need to pay down the debts we owe and not leave them for future generations.

But But that means we have to give up our free stuff. The Govt needs to stop spending, and needs to makes some cuts on things like Military and Social Programs. How will we ever get by with out Govt funded research on the breeding habits of Earthworms?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

One of the big issues in the US is a lack of jobs.
Companies just aren't hiring.
Why?
Most small businesses are 'holding their breath' waiting for the BS from 'Obamacare' to fully hit. Result: Hiring freeze.

You want jobs? Make it easy for companies to hire and operate again.
More jobs = more taxpayers = more tax revenue.
Less jobs = less taxpayers = less tax revenue.

Math. What the government sucks at.

 

[billc]

But if companies are able to hire people and pay salaries again they will just be making more of those greedy people who have money. It is probably better if no one works, and they simply get money from the government. Wouldn't that be the fairest way to get money. That way no one is getting ripped off by the greedy 1%, everyone has a "living wage," as mandated by the government, everyone has free healthcare, everyone has a free house and no one will be exploited by greedy business owners. The solution is simple really...just have the government give us everything we need and the problem is solved. Think of how much free time everyone would have if no one worked for greedy people, and they just did what they wanted all the time. It might even end war as an activity. If everyone doesn't have to worry about money anymore, there is no need to take other peoples stuff. Hey...we just solved the crime problem as well. Not bad for a Friday.

 

[billc]

And like magic, my favorite author speaks to this very topic...

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/

Any crisis… Any problem… You ask the feds to fix it, you get this kind of answer. Almost never do the laws fix the actual problem. Instead the government gets bigger and gains a few more powers and it doesn’t fix the issue. When the problem gets bigger, then the government gets bigger and gains a few more powers that actually make the problem worse. Oh look! Despite all of these laws the problem has gotten even bigger? Whatever should we do? Why, I know! Let’s pass an even bigger law that takes away more individual freedom and gives the government more control!
Repeat, repeat, repeat. Any topic, any situation, any problem. They address it, you lose freedom and they gain more control. Some of you are only offended today because this particular law hurts something you enjoy. The rest of the time? Screw it. You can’t be bothered to pay attention. Or worse, people like me who are up in arms over an issue are just cranks or anti-government crackpots.
I was going to close this blog post with a quote I read about freedom versus control, but Wikipedia was down protesting SOPA.

 

[Tez3]

But if companies are able to hire people and pay salaries again they will just be making more of those greedy people who have money. It is probably better if no one works, and they simply get money from the government. Wouldn't that be the fairest way to get money. That way no one is getting ripped off by the greedy 1%, everyone has a "living wage," as mandated by the government, everyone has free healthcare, everyone has a free house and no one will be exploited by greedy business owners. The solution is simple really...just have the government give us everything we need and the problem is solved. Think of how much free time everyone would have if no one worked for greedy people, and they just did what they wanted all the time. It might even end war as an activity. If everyone doesn't have to worry about money anymore, there is no need to take other peoples stuff. Hey...we just solved the crime problem as well. Not bad for a Friday.

What a load of bollocks.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

While Bill was being sarcastic, he's almost quoting Nancy Pelosi's argument for the health insurance bill they passed recently. Which was bollocks then too. Pelosi, the bill and the thinking. Mega-Bollocks. At least a Kilo-Ramsey's worth.

 

[Tez3]

While Bill was being sarcastic, he's almost quoting Nancy Pelosi's argument for the health insurance bill they passed recently. Which was bollocks then too. Pelosi, the bill and the thinking. Mega-Bollocks. At least a Kilo-Ramsey's worth.

I'd suggest he's being less sarcastic more socialist bashing again.

 

[Ken Morgan]

A Tory, a 'class enemy' of the working people

Mark, my MJER brother, I disagree with this statement, though I am looking at it from a Canada vs. UK perspective.

I am a Conservative, proud to call myself a Tory here in Canada, though Jaclyn will disagree with my reasoning’s. Every Tory I know works or is a student, they blame no one for their failures but themselves, but are apt to give credit to others when things go right.

I still find it very odd how much the Brits deal with the class issue, even some of my UK cousins will make comments regarding those with fancy cars or big houses. Some of my cousins are with the ones with fancy cars and big houses, but they earned and worked for it, ever pence.

I think it’s still a throwback to the aristocracy and a 1000 years of conditioning.

Is class really and honestly still a huge issue over there?

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye it is still an issue and Tories are still the enemy of the working man. Conservatives here not the same as Conservatives in Canada (tho' they are not as insane as American Right Wingers).

 

[Ken Morgan]

Aye it is still an issue and Tories are still the enemy of the working man.

How so?

From what I've seen, in Canada, we're all working men and women.

 

[Sukerkin]

That may well be the case in Canada for now - however, just give it some time and let the income inequality grow a little more and you'll soon have a 'class divide' of your own.

It might not be one that is based on 'Old Money', just nice, egalitarian, 'New Money' but it'll be there. Historically, "One Law for the Rich and Another Law for the Poor" is a trend which grows when those with unearned/inherited wealth to start thinking they 'deserve' it and are 'better' than others that don't have it.

Once that gets entrenched, 'class', no matter what it is termed, begins to stratify society over time and barriers to travel across the boundaries of class start to solidify. So, over here, Tories are the party of the idle, over-renumerated, rich and Labour was the party of those working class oiks (like me) who earn what little they have (I used the past tense as, sadly, the Labour party is almost indistinguishable from the Tories thanks to Snake Oil Blair).

 

[ballen0351]

(tho' they are not as insane as American Right Wingers).

What about the American Right wing do you find insane?

 

[Ken Morgan]

I know people with loads of money and many who are, if it is at all possible, more broke then I. Only two of them inherited their money, yet they work 50-60 hours a week in the family business. The rest work 60 hour weeks in their own businesses, some of them earn more in a day then I do in a week. The first type needs to work hard just to maintain what they have, the second work hard to enjoy nice lifestyles.

The odd time I have seen people with money have big egos, so what? They would still have been *******s had they been poorer. It is them, their attitudes not the money that is the issue.

For both I hold no resentment, good for both types for being where they are. I am by no means at either level yet, but that is no one’s fault but my own, I have made some bad & good choices, I have had some bad & good luck, but no one manipulated the system to drive me down. I am at the level I am at because of me, no one else.

How are their two sets of laws?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'd suggest he's being less sarcastic more socialist bashing again.

Well, I do take issue with many Socialist and socialist ideas. After all:
“Do you have a right to somebody else’s property? No, not even if the government is giving it to you.” (Michael Badnarik)
is an idea I subscribe to.


But not all of them mind you. Some are useful in a modern society, in moderation.

 

[granfire]

What about the American Right wing do you find insane?

Just about everything.

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye, the very question reduces me to wondering silence . Ballen, it is only because you grew up in the environment and in the country that you did that you don't see anything out-of-the-ordinary about American Right Wing politics.

When I became a regular here at MT, it took me a while to adjust to the fact that Right-Wingers (TM) were serious and not joking when they wrote the things they did about almost anything to do with economics or social policy. I adapted after a while and stopped trying to counter-argue because my forehead was getting bruised from banging it against that brick wall :lol:. Just take it as read that that is what I (and most of the rest of Europe) thinks and don't allow it to get in the way of our talking about other things.

For, after all is said and done, what you fellows think of as Pinko-Commy-Socialists (aka Democrats) I consider to be Right Wing; so imagine what I think of the Republicans .