Why doesn't boxing, wrestling, and most Western fighting sports suffer from the Mcdojo phenomenon?

Buka

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I'd like to first point you to David Letterman, on YouTube. Look up Mouse Strauss. Hahahahaha, before computers who were you watching fight?

Dojo wars were very common. Jon Balet, Roger Carpenter no holds bar, century 2 Wichita Ks. This was caused by Jon spear handing Roger in the eye after a competition. We also might remember Count Dante, and the murder in Chicago at another Dojo. Mcdojo, is a creation when ppl started being crybabies in Dojos. You will never know if you can defend yourself unless you have taken a shot.
If I remember correctly, it started because Bal'ee was bad mouthing Roger and saying he had beaten him in a fight. Roger called him on it, and the rest is history. I heard it was a nasty beating.

I miss Roger Carpenter, he was a really good man and one hell of a Martial Artist. He helped me a lot when I was young.
 

dvcochran

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I thought one of the distinguishing features of Greco-Roman, as opposed to freestyle or folkstyle, is that leg holds are forbidden?
Maybe my terminology is .wrong. We would shoot for the lead leg, stand back up and walk them (front or back) into a takedown.
It was always called 'shooting the leg'. I can still hear my coach scream it from the sideline.
 

Rich Parsons

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Hmmm ?!?

Back in the 00's one couldn't throw a rock without hitting a new MMA Gym.
They would pop up and be gone in 6 to 18 months.
Usually because all they were , were just a person looking for people to tap out and or hurt or both.

It happens just in a different method or way.

When a local Boxer makes it big have also noticed all the local Gyms promote Boxing to get all the local hype and new people in.
Is this bad to get their money just for a few months, and interrupt your serious trainers ?
Or should they just keep quiet or stick with their local already existing marketing?
 

Steve

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Maybe my terminology is .wrong. We would shoot for the lead leg, stand back up and walk them (front or back) into a takedown.
It was always called 'shooting the leg'. I can still hear my coach scream it from the sideline.
Is it possible you were competing in freestyle wrestling? Prohibition against attacking your opponent's legs or using your own is the biggest difference between Greco-Roman wrestling and other styles such as folk wrestling or freestyle wrestling. Even inadvertently grasping your opponent's legs is a foul.
 

dvcochran

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Is it possible you were competing in freestyle wrestling? Prohibition against attacking your opponent's legs or using your own is the biggest difference between Greco-Roman wrestling and other styles such as folk wrestling or freestyle wrestling. Even inadvertently grasping your opponent's legs is a foul.
This is curious for me. It was in the early & mid 80,s and, as I recall, it was always called it Roman-Greco. But looking at Google, Folkstyle seems to be the common name for high school and college.
I know for certain we would shoot so it follows that it is not Roman-Greco.
I leaned something new.
 

Steve

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This is curious for me. It was in the early & mid 80,s and, as I recall, it was always called it Roman-Greco. But looking at Google, Folkstyle seems to be the common name for high school and college.
I know for certain we would shoot so it follows that it is not Roman-Greco.
I leaned something new.
Maybe. For what it's worth, I've never heard the term "Roman Greco" before. That's a new one for me. Folkstyle and freestyle wrestling are very similar. I'm guilty of using the two terms interchangeably, which is probably a bad habit.

But hopefully we can all agree that it's all BJJ (if it works).
 

lklawson

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Technically bullshido is just garbage training.

And a McDojo is a money making scheme.

So they can be independent of each other.
Technically, these are all made-up words that don't exist in the Dictionary. They mean whatever the person using them want them to mean, just like "crapling."

Maybe someday there will be an actual definition but until then, they don't "technically" mean anything.
 

Steve

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Technically, these are all made-up words that don't exist in the Dictionary. They mean whatever the person using them want them to mean, just like "crapling."

Maybe someday there will be an actual definition but until then, they don't "technically" mean anything.

I think you have it completely backwards. Words are added to the dictionary because they are understood and have accepted meanings. They aren't invented by the editors. They are simply codified.

I was pleased to note that the OED finally (FINALLY) included Dutch Baby in September, 2021 despite meaning something specific since the 1940s.
 

lklawson

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I think you have it completely backwards. Words are added to the dictionary because they are understood and have accepted meanings. They aren't invented by the editors. They are simply codified.

I was pleased to note that the OED finally (FINALLY) included Dutch Baby in September, 2021 despite meaning something specific since the 1940s.
"They mean whatever the person using them want them to mean, just like 'crapling.'

Maybe someday there will be an actual definition but until then, they don't 'technically' mean anything."
 

Steve

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"They mean whatever the person using them want them to mean, just like 'crapling.'

Maybe someday there will be an actual definition but until then, they don't 'technically' mean anything."
I think you have it completely backwards. Words are added to the dictionary because they are understood and have accepted meanings. They aren't invented by the editors. They are simply codified.

Did I do that right? :D

Are you baffled when someone says "bullshido" or "crappling" to you? Does it completely confuse you? I would expect you would have a pretty darn good idea what they mean.
 

lklawson

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I think you have it completely backwards. Words are added to the dictionary because they are understood and have accepted meanings. They aren't invented by the editors. They are simply codified.
No, I don't have it backwards unless you do too, because I am saying something close to what you are.

Did I do that right? :D
I wouldn't know. According to my wife I'm never right.


Are you baffled when someone says "bullshido" or "crappling" to you? Does it completely confuse you? I would expect you would have a pretty darn good idea what they mean.
Well, this part of the thread is going on because there seems to be some confusion or lack of consensus between Dropbear and 'Treker about the difference between the <cough> 'words' of "bullshido" and "mcdojo." And it's not like OED is going to say that the one is right and the other wrong. So, yeah, these 'terms" are not exactly set in stone; far less so than even the somewhat flexible and evolving nature of English is.

I therefore content that "bullshido" and "mcdojo" kinda mean whatever the user wants them to mean, within a certain fairly broad context of "bad martial arts." And Dropbear certainly can't say with any particular authority that "technically" one means x and the other means y. At least for now.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

Steve

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No, I don't have it backwards unless you do too, because I am saying something close to what you are
I wouldn't know. According to my wife I'm never right.
You and me both. It's the cross we bear.

Well, this part of the thread is going on because there seems to be some confusion or lack of consensus between Dropbear and 'Treker about the difference between the <cough> 'words' of "bullshido" and "mcdojo." And it's not like OED is going to say that the one is right and the other wrong. So, yeah, these 'terms" are not exactly set in stone; far less so than even the somewhat flexible and evolving nature of English is.

I therefore content that "bullshido" and "mcdojo" kinda mean whatever the user wants them to mean, within a certain fairly broad context of "bad martial arts." And Dropbear certainly can't say with any particular authority that "technically" one means x and the other means y. At least for now.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Okay. I hear you. I think what I'm reacting to here is how arbitrary your comment seems to me. Why those terms in this thread?

If you think these terms, which I think are pretty concrete overall, can mean anything, that doesn't bode well for discussions on things like sport, traditional, self defense, martial art, or any of the various terms used around here that often cause confusion in spite of being found in the dictionary. Shoot, there are some dudes around here who have some squirrelly ideas about what "experience" means, and one person tried to parse out a difference between "having experience with" and "being experienced." When he pulled that one out, I just gave up. :)
 

Dirty Dog

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Maybe you're both right. Words get added to the dictionary when they've become widely accepted and their meaning generally understood. But until that time they can be considered in flux, and the meaning can change drastically between the time a word is first used and it's meaning being codified in a dictionary.
 

lklawson

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You and me both. It's the cross we bear.


Okay. I hear you. I think what I'm reacting to here is how arbitrary your comment seems to me. Why those terms in this thread?
Meh. I guess I just got a wild hair.

If you think these terms, which I think are pretty concrete overall, can mean anything, that doesn't bode well for discussions on things like sport, traditional, self defense, martial art, or any of the various terms used around here that often cause confusion in spite of being found in the dictionary. Shoot, there are some dudes around here who have some squirrelly ideas about what "experience" means, and one person tried to parse out a difference between "having experience with" and "being experienced." When he pulled that one out, I just gave up. :)
You're right, those terms are often disputed and I've weighed in myself on some of them, ranging from "sport" through "traditional." And, yeah, they often mean different things to different people. A TKD guy might think one thing when he hear's "traditional" and a koryu heavy person might think something else. ...and these are terms that have a lot more history than "bullshido" and "mcdojo." I think the term "McDojo" is only about 20 years old or less and "Bullshido" is even younger and neither seem to have a universally agreed on definition even in the communities which use them aside from "bad martial arts."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

drop bear

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Technically, these are all made-up words that don't exist in the Dictionary. They mean whatever the person using them want them to mean, just like "crapling."

Maybe someday there will be an actual definition but until then, they don't "technically" mean anything.
 

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Steve

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Meh. I guess I just got a wild hair.


You're right, those terms are often disputed and I've weighed in myself on some of them, ranging from "sport" through "traditional." And, yeah, they often mean different things to different people. A TKD guy might think one thing when he hear's "traditional" and a koryu heavy person might think something else. ...and these are terms that have a lot more history than "bullshido" and "mcdojo." I think the term "McDojo" is only about 20 years old or less and "Bullshido" is even younger and neither seem to have a universally agreed on definition even in the communities which use them aside from "bad martial arts."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Can you believe Bullshido.net has been online since 2002?
 

Buka

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Is it possible you were competing in freestyle wrestling? Prohibition against attacking your opponent's legs or using your own is the biggest difference between Greco-Roman wrestling and other styles such as folk wrestling or freestyle wrestling. Even inadvertently grasping your opponent's legs is a foul.
I don't know if I ever mentioned this before, but back in the sixties, at least in the Boston area, there wasn't any wrestling in any high schools any of us ever heard about. Seems odd now thinking back on it.
 

Steve

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I don't know if I ever mentioned this before, but back in the sixties, at least in the Boston area, there wasn't any wrestling in any high schools any of us ever heard about. Seems odd now thinking back on it.
Crazy. It's in all the schools around here. What I'm really happy to see is a robust judo program in the high schools around here, and has since the 1950s. It's a great compliment to wrestling. Wrestling is a winter sport, and judo is a spring sport, so kids can do both if they're interested. So, we've had Judo for longer than you guys have even had wrestling. :D

What's really cool is that judo doesn't cut anyone and works on belts, not JV or Varsity, so everyone who wants to join the team can join, and everyone competes.
 

geezer

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I don't know if I ever mentioned this before, but back in the sixties, at least in the Boston area, there wasn't any wrestling in any high schools any of us ever heard about. Seems odd now thinking back on it.
We had it out here in Arizona in the mid '60s, although it wasn't as big a deal as it later became. We just called it "wrestling" or "collegiate wrestling" ...but it was what they now refer to as "folkstyle". I'd heard about greco-roman and freestyle but never saw it done around here.

BTW this guy was my coach. I'll never forget him.



Meh. I guess I just got a wild hair.
Kirk
Wait ...isn't that a "wild hare"?

...I mean sure having a wild hair in a sensitive place would be un comfortable too, I guess, but not to the same degree! ;)
 

Buka

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Crazy. It's in all the schools around here. What I'm really happy to see is a robust judo program in the high schools around here, and has since the 1950s. It's a great compliment to wrestling. Wrestling is a winter sport, and judo is a spring sport, so kids can do both if they're interested. So, we've had Judo for longer than you guys have even had wrestling. :D

What's really cool is that judo doesn't cut anyone and works on belts, not JV or Varsity, so everyone who wants to join the team can join, and everyone competes.

Yeah, it's odd. I was heavily into high school sports, never even once thought of wrestling as part of high school. It just wasn't there.
 

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