who gave ed parker his black belt ?

[Xinglu]

Thank you for that John, as they say, a photo is worth a thousand words...

 

[James Kovacich]

At some point, probably based on his achievements, Adriano Emperado promoted Ed Parker to 8th degree. I think that alone takes away the need to prove whether or not Ed Parker got his 1st black belt.

 

[Xinglu]

Long Answer:

1) Chow earned his BB under Chow, there are pictures of Parker training with Chow in which he is wearing it.

2) There WAS NO purple belt when Parker trained with Chow, so that couldn't have been a possibility

3) Chow, while a great martial artist, was very bitter in the end and would vent about people if asked. It is more likely, he was bad mouthing Parker due to his success while Chow was broke and pennyless.

In the end, both were great martial artists and contributed alot to various systems today.

More importantly, how does that effect what you are doing to better yourself and protect yourself?

1. there are pictures of parker training with chow wearing a dark colored belt, this does not imply he was a BB. It is impossible to distinguish the difference between purple, green, blue, brown, or black in old black and whites. It is really hard with new black and whites. Please provide evidence that indicates that it was a BB and not some other colored belt. Just look at John's photo and compare the belts of Bobby Lowe and Adriano Emperado - they both look the sam, but one IS black the other IS blue.

2. Well, there is evidence on this very thread that directly contradicts your assertion.

3. People were lying about how much training they received from him, you'd be upset if people were doing that to you too. But that does not a liar make. So please provide evidence of Chow's deceit regarding Parker's rank.

 

[Xinglu]

At some point, probably based on his achievements, Adriano Emperado promoted Ed Parker to 8th degree. I think that alone takes away the need to prove whether or not Ed Parker got his 1st black belt.

Sure, Like I said, Parker was skilled and did great things, so what does it really matter?

Besides, he didn't teach Kara-Ho Kempo, so it doesn't matter if he was a BB under chow.

 

[Omar B]

No it does not matter dude. I don't even do Kenpo and have learned, swiped and outright stolen a lot of stuff from Kenpo. One of these days I would love to get into it fully, but at the moment I can't (besides, Kali, Krav Maga and Tang Soo Do are ahead of it on my list).

 

[punisher73]

1. there are pictures of parker training with chow wearing a dark colored belt, this does not imply he was a BB. It is impossible to distinguish the difference between purple, green, blue, brown, or black in old black and whites. It is really hard with new black and whites. Please provide evidence that indicates that it was a BB and not some other colored belt. Just look at John's photo and compare the belts of Bobby Lowe and Adriano Emperado - they both look the sam, but one IS black the other IS blue.

2. Well, there is evidence on this very thread that directly contradicts your assertion.

3. People were lying about how much training they received from him, you'd be upset if people were doing that to you too. But that does not a liar make. So please provide evidence of Chow's deceit regarding Parker's rank.

The picture that was posted is of Emperado and his students along with Chow. Others have stated that Chow did not use the color purple at that time frame.

Also, Parker was already ranked as a BB in Judo prior to leaving the islands and going to BYU. I am assuming the main question's intent was who gave Parker his BB in Kenpo.

As to the evidence of Chow's deceit read the BB interview which was done in 1984 and then publised about 15 years AFTER it was done.

1) Chow claims that he got his BB from his father and NOT Mitose. No proof has ever existed of that. Chow's other brothers got their training in Danzan-Ryu and Chow was known to have trained with them as well.

2) Chow claims that Parker did train with him and got to purple. Chow then says that Parker did most of his training under Emperado. Emperado had already started Kajukenbo and states that Parker only trained with him for 2 weeks. Parker also verifies that he only trained with Emperado a short time.

3) Says that Cerio is his true successor if you want to learn his system. Yet, anyone who has trained with Chow states that Cerio was only with him a very short period of time (even though it greatly influenced how he approached his kenpo).

So when you read through this interview, you can see that Chow was a bitter man who held some long time grudges. He disavows his association with Mitose, who gave him his belt. And then says that Parker mainly trained with Emperado. The interview taken as a whole shows that the source is not credible. Chow also makes claims about Parker's popularity and how is he so big on the mainland, then degrades Parker's association. There is also and interview with Emperado about how Chow wanted to be involved and rename their system to get credit.

 

[John Bishop]

The picture that was posted is of Emperado and his students along with Chow.

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No it's not. And those were not Sijo's students. Sijo never had a school at the Nuuanu YMCA. That was the Chow school that Parker trained at, and Sijo assisted at.
Sijo's school in 1950 was at the Palama Settlement Gym. Prior to that it was at the Halawa Veterans Housing.

 

[celtic_crippler]

So?

Is anyone here actually disputing SGM Parker's rank, his contributions, or his skill?

Or just bickering about wheter or not purple belt ranks existed in 1950?

Ed's not in the picture so it really doesn't matter nor does it really pertain to the topic of this thread.

 

[suicide]

no just a simple question who gave him his bb in kenpo ? everything he did for kenpo is recognized and thats cool but the question was : who gave ed parker his black belt ? from the looks of things the info is blurred maybe will never know - its all good though.



:whip:

 

[Carol]

The superimposed text on the photo implies that the all ranks superimposed on the photo were accurate as of the given datestamp of the photo.

For there to be a purple belt in 1950, that must also mean that:

• Professor Chow was referring to himself as a 10th dan red/black belt in in August, 1950.

• Sijo Emperado was a 5th dan in August 1950, when he was 24.

And, all this happened before Professor Chow met James Mitose, and before Professor Chow had the dream to call his system "Kara Ho"

Are those dates accurate?
(Not being smart-alecky here. I honestly do not know if those dates are accurate or not)

 

[John Bishop]

The superimposed text on the photo implies that the all ranks superimposed on the photo were accurate as of the given datestamp of the photo.

For there to be a purple belt in 1950, that must also mean that:

• Professor Chow was referring to himself as a 10th dan red/black belt in in August, 1950.

• Sijo Emperado was a 5th dan in August 1950, when he was 24.

And, all this happened before Professor Chow met James Mitose, and before Professor Chow had the dream to call his system "Kara Ho"

Are those dates accurate?
(Not being smart-alecky here. I honestly do not know if those dates are accurate or not)

On 9-18-89, Thomas Young told me that he and Chow started training with Mitose in his garage around 1941-42. He preceded Chow by about 3 months.
By the time Mitose opened the "Official Self Defense Club" around 1944-45, both Young and Chow were already black belts.

On 12-12-92, Sijo Emperado told me that he started training with Chow in 1946. Around 1947, he was promoted to black. In 1950, Chow told him that Mitose promoted him to 10th degree, so he was promoting him (Emperado) to 5th degree.
Several years later Chow started calling himself "Jugodan" 15th degree. Emperado's explained the rank with one statement, "whateva, he was one bad dude. So no one ever questioned his rank".

 

[Carol]

On 9-18-89, Thomas Young told me that he and Chow started training with Mitose in his garage around 1941-42. He preceded Chow by about 3 months.
By the time Mitose opened the "Official Self Defense Club" around 1944-45, both Young and Chow were already black belts.

On 12-12-92, Sijo Emperado told me that he started training with Chow in 1946. Around 1947, he was promoted to black. In 1950, Chow told him that Mitose promoted him to 10th degree, so he was promoting him (Emperado) to 5th degree.
Several years later Chow started calling himself "Jugodan" 15th degree. Emperado's explained the rank with one statement, "whateva, he was one bad dude. So no one ever questioned his rank".

Thank you very much Mr. Bishop! I didn't realize all of that happened as early as it did. :asian:

 

[Xinglu]

The picture that was posted is of Emperado and his students along with Chow.

No it's not. And those were not Sijo's students. Sijo never had a school at the Nuuanu YMCA. That was the Chow school that Parker trained at, and Sijo assisted at.
Sijo's school in 1950 was at the Palama Settlement Gym. Prior to that it was at the Halawa Veterans Housing.

As Mr. Bishop has already stated, this is incorrect.

Others have stated that Chow did not use the color purple at that time frame.

Who? Furthermore, they are clearly mistaken as the photograph directly contradicts them.

Also, Parker was already ranked as a BB in Judo prior to leaving the islands and going to BYU.

This is irrelevant. No one is disputing Parker's skill or knowledge. Just that his kenpo rank under Chow is disputable. Which as I said is almost irrelevent since he didn't teach Kara-Ho Kempo.

I am assuming the main question's intent was who gave Parker his BB in Kenpo.

Right, of which no evidence to contradict Chow's statement that he did not issue one to Parker has been presented by you.

As to the evidence of Chow's deceit read the BB interview which was done in 1984 and then publised about 15 years AFTER it was done.

It does not invalidate his claim against Parker's rank in Kara-Ho Kempo.

1) Chow claims that he got his BB from his father and NOT Mitose. No proof has ever existed of that. Chow's other brothers got their training in Danzan-Ryu and Chow was known to have trained with them as well.

This is irrelevant and has nothing to do with Parker's rank. Nice attempt at a Starw-man argument though :wink:

2) Chow claims that Parker did train with him and got to purple.

Please provide evidence to the contrary.

Chow then says that Parker did most of his training under Emperado. Emperado had already started Kajukenbo and states that Parker only trained with him for 2 weeks. Parker also verifies that he only trained with Emperado a short time.

This is irrelevant to what rank Chow gave him. Any training under Emperado would be irrelevant at this point since he was teaching Kajukenbo and not Kara-Ho. Even if Parker earned a BB in Kajukenbo that would not be a BB under Chow or in Chow's Kempo.

3) Says that Cerio is his true successor if you want to learn his system. Yet, anyone who has trained with Chow states that Cerio was only with him a very short period of time (even though it greatly influenced how he approached his kenpo).

This is irrelevant to Parker's rank under Chow. Furthermore, GM Kuoha is the true successor and he has the documentation to prove it.

So when you read through this interview, you can see that Chow was a bitter man who held some long time grudges.

So? Once again, this does not a liar make.

He disavows his association with Mitose, who gave him his belt.

So? Lots of people did, Mitose was not easy to like and there was a lot of negative politics surrounding him. It is also irrelevant to Parker's rank.

The interview taken as a whole shows that the source is not credible.

This is your opinion, a disputable one at that.

Chow also makes claims about Parker's popularity and how is he so big on the mainland, then degrades Parker's association.

Yes, he was angry. This doesn't mean he lied about Parker's rank.

There is also and interview with Emperado about how Chow wanted to be involved and rename their system to get credit.

Irrelevant, this has nothing to do with Parker's rank.

 

[Xinglu]

Is anyone here actually disputing SGM Parker's rank, his contributions, or his skill?

Rank in American Kenpo? No. I also see no reason to doubt Chow's claim about Parker's rank in Kara-Ho. Like I said, It doesn't affect that Parker had mad skills and it does not take away from anything he accomplished or did.

The only way it would matter is if Parker was claiming to teach Kara-Ho Kempo, which he did not. He taught EPAK. And as the founder of EPAK no one can or should dispute his rank in EPAK.

 

[suicide]

Rank in American Kenpo? No. I also see no reason to doubt Chow's claim about Parker's rank in Kara-Ho. Like I said, It doesn't affect that Parker had mad skills and it does not take away from anything he accomplished or did.

The only way it would matter is if Parker was claiming to teach Kara-Ho Kempo, which he did not. He taught EPAK. And as the founder of EPAK no one can or should dispute his rank in EPAK.

and no one is ? but the question remains : who gave ed parker his black belt ?

 

[James Kovacich]

Maybe it was Sonny Gascon.

 

[Xinglu]

and no one is ? but the question remains : who gave ed parker his black belt ?

In general or in Kenpo? Because he was a BB in Judo before he left Hawaii.

 

[shesulsa]

Chuck Norris. :barf:

 

[Joab]

Hopefully nobody gave him his black belt, hopefully he earned it.

 

[LawDog]

I believe that this question hs been asked many times before within this forum.
Mr Parker was a very good person and martial artist and that is what really counts.