Nick Cerio - KyuDan from Ed Parker?

thesensei

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I just read a couple bios of Nick Cerio on the following sites:

United Studios of Self Defense - Cerio lineage

Nick Cerio bio

Both articles state that Nick Cerio received a 9th degree black belt from Ed Parker. The first link claims it to be in "American Kenpo Karate." The second link clarifies that it was not in AKK, but simply "Kenpo Karate," as Professor Cerio had not learned the complete AK system.

I have heard verified from many sources that the highest rank that Ed Parker awarded was 7th, and there were only a few (7, I believe). But I do know that he gave Elvis an "honorary" 8th...What's the scoop on Professor Cerio? What's the 'truth?'

Salute,
Jeremiah
 

KenpoEMT

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thesensei said:
Nick Cerio received a 9th degree black belt from Ed Parker.
...the highest rank that Ed Parker awarded was 7th, and there were only a few (7, I believe).
That was my understanding as well. There were no 'Masters' in Kenpo when he passed away.
 

shaolinDave

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It is my understanding that he was awarded the rank in recognition of his experience, skill, and contributions to Kenpo in general. Ed Parker studied from as many sources as he could while he continually developed his system. I don't think he beleived that his way was the only way to do things, and this was one way in which he showed this. Ed Parker was a genius martial artist who could recognize the same in others.
 

dsp921

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thesensei said:
I just read a couple bios of Nick Cerio on the following sites:

United Studios of Self Defense - Cerio lineage

Nick Cerio bio

Both articles state that Nick Cerio received a 9th degree black belt from Ed Parker. The first link claims it to be in "American Kenpo Karate." The second link clarifies that it was not in AKK, but simply "Kenpo Karate," as Professor Cerio had not learned the complete AK system.

I have heard verified from many sources that the highest rank that Ed Parker awarded was 7th, and there were only a few (7, I believe). But I do know that he gave Elvis an "honorary" 8th...What's the scoop on Professor Cerio? What's the 'truth?'

Salute,
Jeremiah
ShaolinDave seems to have summed it up pretty well.
Ed Parker promoted Professor Cerio to 9th in "Kenpo Karate", not EPAK, as the link states. 7th was the highest EPAK rank Parker awarded. This topic has been discussed at great length several times. Do a search.
As for the "truth", the only two people that really know what the scoop is (and to whom it really only matters) are Ed Parker and Professor Cerio and both are no longer with us.
 

Seabrook

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thesensei said:
I have heard verified from many sources that the highest rank that Ed Parker awarded was 7th, and there were only a few (7, I believe).
Salute,
Jeremiah
There were twelve 7th degrees at the time of Ed Parker's passing, and yes, Elvis was promoted to 8th degree by Ed Parker.

Hope that helps.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
 

Zoran

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thesensei said:
I have heard verified from many sources that the highest rank that Ed Parker awarded was 7th, and there were only a few (7, I believe). But I do know that he gave Elvis an "honorary" 8th...What's the scoop on Professor Cerio? What's the 'truth?'
The highest rank in EPAK was 7th. He did award like rank, or ranks of recognition to others in Kenpo either greater, lesser and equal to 7th.
 

Doc

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Zoran said:
The highest rank in EPAK was 7th. He did award like rank, or ranks of recognition to others in Kenpo either greater, lesser and equal to 7th.
As a matter of record, most accept that the 7th's awarded by Mr. Parker are the ranks that represent his many interpretations and the highest ranks in his many arts.

These 7th's were awarded the large very distinctive "legitimate" diplomas designed by his son, and specifically printed by Charles Gonzales of Castle Litho. These were NOT the smaller "recognition" diplomas given at even higher ranks to many people for a variety of reasons. Mr. Parker specifically made a persoanl disitnction between the small signature stamped diplomas, and the larger diplomas he ALWAYS signed personally.

However, I also submit that there were at least two 8th's that I personally know of, who also received the large disitinctive "legitimate" diplomas. Neither of these diplomas had any distinctive markings that would indicate they were "honorary, or anything less than at least as legitimate as all the 7ths.

Given that Ed Parker awarded and signed them personally, to cast doubt on his intent is a bit presumptious since he personally made no distinction between them.

Now there were a bunch of large diplomas handed out after Mr. Parker passed away that many consider "questionable," and signed by Mrs. Parker, (who has no martial ranking or standing) but any large diploma signed by Ed Parker never had any less of a status than any other larger diploma he signed.

Whether we choose to elevate an Elvis Aaron Preseley to our level or demote ourselves to his, is a subject for discussion. For me personally, it doesn't really matter. Good kenpo is good and, well you know...
:)

(Kalihi Griffin is the answer to the question you're thinking about asking)
 

dsp921

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Doc said:
As a matter of record, most accept that the 7th's awarded by Mr. Parker are the ranks that represent his many interpretations and the highest ranks in his many arts.

These 7th's were awarded the large very distinctive "legitimate" diplomas designed by his son, and specifically printed by Charles Gonzales of Castle Litho. These were NOT the smaller "recognition" diplomas given at even higher ranks to many people for a variety of reasons. Mr. Parker specifically made a persoanl disitnction between the small signature stamped diplomas, and the larger diplomas he ALWAYS signed personally.

However, I also submit that there were at least two 8th's that I personally know of, who also received the large disitinctive "legitimate" diplomas. Neither of these diplomas had any distinctive markings that would indicate they were "honorary, or anything less than at least as legitimate as all the 7ths.

Given that Ed Parker awarded and signed them personally, to cast doubt on his intent is a bit presumptious since he personally made no distinction between them.

Now there were a bunch of large diplomas handed out after Mr. Parker passed away that many consider "questionable," and signed by Mrs. Parker, (who has no martial ranking or standing) but any large diploma signed by Ed Parker never had any less of a status than any other larger diploma he signed.

Whether we choose to elevate an Elvis Aaron Preseley to our level or demote ourselves to his, is a subject for discussion. For me personally, it doesn't really matter. Good kenpo is good and, well you know...
:)

(Kalihi Griffin is the answer to the question you're thinking about asking)
That is good infomation, thanks Doc. I have a couple of questions, just for my own curiosity. I don't do EPAK so I have not seen many of the diplomas, what are the dimensions of the large vs small diplomas? Just so I would be able to tell the difference if I saw one. Did Mr. Parker ever hand sign the smaller diplomas or were they all stamped? Thanks.
 

Zoran

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Thanks for the info Doc.

My understanding was that he only gave out the large diplomas to his first generation black belts. Were the large diplomas given to people that were not his students also?
 

kenmpoka

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Zoran said:
Thanks for the info Doc.

My understanding was that he only gave out the large diplomas to his first generation black belts. Were the large diplomas given to people that were not his students also?
FYI from the archives of The Kenponet:

The KenpoNet Discussion Forum
*Return to Articles**
Details RE:parker/Cerio relationship
March 21 2005 at 12:10 PM
No score for this post"KENPOJOE" Rebelo * (Login KENPOJOE)
from IP address 64.12.116.66
"Hi Folks!
I was asked the other night to look at Kenponet and post regarding this particular thread. I know that I have posted to various boards on this matter and I will make an active point of adding this particular post to the FAQ on my website to insure that people can refer to it in the future.
1.Nick Cerio-Ed Parker relationship:
Nick Cerio initially met Mr. Parker at a Karate tournament in New York in the mid to late 1960's,when Mr. Parker was travelling throughout the USA,attending various major karate events [remember: Back then major karate tournaments were far and few between]. Mr. Cerio became the new england IKKA representative at that time and awarded IKKA Black Belt certificates [the small certificates with the japanese kanji as opposed to the chinese writing] to various individuals [such as Bill Marciarelli of Fall River]under the auspices of the IKKA because Mr. Parker trusted Mr. Cerio to do so and promote the IKKA. I saw one of those certificates when I visited Mr. Marciarelli's second floor dojo [upstairs via spiral staircase from the weightlifting gym] and saw the most amount of pictures /posters [all autographed] of Prof Chow I had ever seen in my life in one place! There, he [marciarelli] had a small IKKA certificate promoting him to one of his black belt degrees with Mr. Parker's,Mr. Cerio's and Ernest Lieb's [president of the AKA] signature. I found it strange that Ernest Lieb's name was listed as a signature on the board and phoned Mr. Parker about it. He told me "I would never have ernest lieb sign one of my certificates.". I do not think that is a disparaging remark about Mr. Lieb, rather stating that only kenpo people normally signed board listings. Perhaps that was one of the reasons that Mr. Cerio left the IKKA initially.
In 1969,Nick Cerio and Bill Marciarelli would go to Hawaii to train with Bill Chun and Prof. Chow. I personally have a copy of the honolulu inquirer newspaper article [provided by Mr. Marciarelli's student]that was written regarding Prof Chow and the visiting Black Belts from New England. Both Prof. Cerio and GM Marciarelli have both told me stories of their training with Prof. Chow over the years and I interviewed Mr. Marciarelli for my TV show and featured pictures of his training with Chow. BTW, Marciarelli went back in 1981 and met again with Chow and had his son test before Prof.Chow at that time. But I digress...
Nick Cerio would associate himself with Prof. Chow in the late 1960's -early 1970's and list himself as receiving his 3rd or 5th dan from Chow [I have the 1968,69 and 71 tournament programs from Mr. Marciarelli's event that clearly list Mr. Cerio's ranks and affiliations st that time]. Later, He would study Hung Gar/Sil Lum under Gin Fong Chin and after attending a local karate tournament, Chin would state "you are just as good as those people wearing 8th degree" and promote him [cerio] to eighth degree with the title of "sifu". Later he [cerio] would use the title "shihan" and was known by this title prior to Chow's death. In the early 1980's, Then "Shihan" Cerio, along with Kalaii Griffin and Tony & Doreen Cogliandro contacted Mr. Parker regarding joining the IKKA and reactivating it throughout New England. The first IKKA new england meeting was held at Revere Karate Academy in revere,ma in 1983. [photos of the meeting were featured in issues of inside karate and official karate magazines at that time]Mr. Leo Lacerte of New Bedford,MA, one of my old kung fu instructors & a person who i had tested with under another instructor in Kenpo karate [New England {villari based}]for our black belts together, was at that meeting and at one point would ask prof. cerio if they could use the parker names of the techniques for techniques they already had. Prof. Cerio stated "no" because they were already established in the Parker system, however, after Prof. Cerio left the IKKA, he would do just that himself for his own system [NCK],leading to confusion between parker/cerio students in regards to certain techniques. During that time frame, Mr. Parker would promote Nick Cerio to the rank of 9th degree black belt through the IKKA...now for the rest of the story [to quote paul harvey]Many of the EPAK seniors knew that Mr. Parker would only promote someone in EPAK up to the rank of seventh degree black belt at that timeframe. Anyone who received an 8th Degree or above was in THEIR RESPECTIVE ARTS and not in EPAK! {such as Elvis Presley,Toru Tanaka [Charlie Kalani],Kalaii Griffin,etc...}This was not common knowledge among most people but it was known among the hierarchy in the IKKA [Hence the reason Joe Palanzo may asked that he and huk be promoted to 8th degree after Mr. Parker's death],So, although it was a large IKKA certificate that was awarded Prof. Cerio, it was in recognizition of his art and his "contributions to the art" and the promotion of the IKKA in New England. Prof. Cerio would leave the IKKA shortly thereafter and I willl not dicuss the possible or probable reasons for that on this forum. To the best of my knowledge,There is no expiration date line on prof cerio's certificate but that was done on certificates afterwards to avoid "hit and run" promotions where people would test under Mr. Parker and then never train in EPAK. I have old IKKA small certificates and even one Large IKKA BB rank certificate that had expiration dates on them so that practice was done during the 1980's. I will look back at the thread to see if there are any questions I haven't addressed but I hope this will clarrify the situation. Thankfully, I was there when a lot of these things were happening and/or asked the individuals involved personally and sometimes have them on video detailing out these incidents/events.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE"
 

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dsp921 said:
That is good infomation, thanks Doc. I have a couple of questions, just for my own curiosity. I don't do EPAK so I have not seen many of the diplomas, what are the dimensions of the large vs small diplomas? Just so I would be able to tell the difference if I saw one. Did Mr. Parker ever hand sign the smaller diplomas or were they all stamped? Thanks.
The differances between the two are so striking you would never confuse them. The large diploma is a 11 x 17 format in full beautiful color, and the small 8 1/2 x 11 is essentially black & white. When Edmund designed them, it was with the expressed intent that the large diploma was to specifically distinguish Parker's in-house people from all the many small diplomas he knew he had handed out in "recognition" of others over the years.

Initially when Parker first arrived on the mainland, the diplomas reflected briefly the Okinawan/Japanese influence from the islands. Then the small diploma listed its promotion authority as the "yudanshakai" and students where promoted in "kyu" and "dan" ranks with Japanese writing decorating both sides of the design. Normally these diplomas were entirely hand filled out including the recipients name and rank, and usually signed by Parker personally.

The second small diploma when Parker broke from that influence listed its promotion authority as Parker's own organization, and the decorative design included his "new" patch and its Chinese" writing. Students were no longer given "dan" rankings as he shifted to and insisted on American English "degrees" and belts instead of "kyu" rank. For a period of time, these too were hand filled out along with a companion IKKA I.D. Card that was basically a reduced diploma. When the organization grew and the technology allowed, Parker began printing names and ranks on diplomas, and ink stamping the significant names with the actual instructor signing the diplomas. However, some of these diplomas were hand signed as well, depending upon when it was received and for what purpose Parker intended its use.
 

dsp921

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Doc said:
The differances between the two are so striking you would never confuse them. The large diploma is a 11 x 17 format in full beautiful color, and the small 8 1/2 x 11 is essentially black & white. When Edmund designed them, it was with the expressed intent that the large diploma was to specifically distinguish Parker's in-house people from all the many small diplomas he knew he had handed out in "recognition" of others over the years.
Thanks for clarifying that for me Doc. You run into a lot of people making a lot of claims, it can't hurt to try to arm youself with as much knowledge as possible to weed out the BS.
 

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Zoran said:
Thanks for the info Doc.

My understanding was that he only gave out the large diplomas to his first generation black belts. Were the large diplomas given to people that were not his students also?
Yes as I stated previously. Although initially that was not his intent, the politics of managing a large organization saw the large diplomas handed out in much the same way as the smaller ones. Although not as much, he "recognized" quite a few people with them.

I personally only saw three. The two I previously mentioned and a third female 8th whose name I cannot recall, nor have heard of since but there were a significant number out there as political "favors." The large diploma was and is the prized possession for those associated with Parker. Almost all of the "seniors" have a high ranking one with Ed Parker's and Leilani's signature. There are some however that either don't have one at all, because Mr. Parker passed while they were still 4th or lower, or the higher ranks were awarded after his death by Mrs. Parker.

For the Cerio question, I was told by Parker the diploma had a expiration date on it, but have no personal knowledge beyond that, nor have I ever seen or know what size it was. I lived/live 20 minutes from Parker's house, so you got me there. My experiences tend to be mostly closer to home. I defer to Joe Rebello who is a repository of information regarding Kenpo in that part of the country during that era.
 

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Here is yet another viewpoint to consider when looking at Prof. Cerio's certificate from Ed Parker. Mr. Parker was a senior. Even if Prof. Cerio was not part of EPAK, Mr. Parker was a senior. In lieu of an actual heirarchy senior for Prof. Cerio, Mr. Parker was well within his "rights" to promote him.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
 
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thesensei

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Thank you for the fascinating information, Doc, Mr. Rebello (indirectly), and others. Kenpo has a fascinating, if confusing, history. Just when you think you're starting to put it together, you find another piece!

I look forward to finding more pieces,

Salute,
Jeremiah
 

Doc

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Dan Anderson said:
Here is yet another viewpoint to consider when looking at Prof. Cerio's certificate from Ed Parker. Mr. Parker was a senior. Even if Prof. Cerio was not part of EPAK, Mr. Parker was a senior. In lieu of an actual heirarchy senior for Prof. Cerio, Mr. Parker was well within his "rights" to promote him.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
Well as long as you're here - I'd like to plug "SuperDan's" new book, "The Anatomy of Motion - Combat Analysis of Traditional Kata." Succinctly - If you don't get some significant information from this book, you're brain dead. Great job Dan.
 

Zoran

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Thanks for the info again Doc.

Here is a pic of the big certificate for those that are interested.
McSweeneyCert800x600.jpg

Awarded to John McSweeney who was not EPAK any more at the time. Hence why he is not listed as one of the 7ths of EPAK (before someone asks).

Also, you will note that they are all numbered, so there is still a record of those certificates. Ed Parker jr. has access to all the records, so any who claim to have one can be checked.
 

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Zoran said:
Thanks for the info again Doc.

Here is a pic of the big certificate for those that are interested.
McSweeneyCert800x600.jpg

Awarded to John McSweeney who was not EPAK any more at the time. Hence why he is not listed as one of the 7ths of EPAK (before someone asks).

Also, you will note that they are all numbered, so there is still a record of those certificates. Ed Parker jr. has access to all the records, so any who claim to have one can be checked.
You are quite correct sir. As noted, all of those were signed by Ed Parker and Leilani with the rest of the signatures being "stamped." Parker did indeed give them out to those he wanted to have them.
 

KENPOJOE

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kenmpoka said:
FYI from the archives of The Kenponet:

The KenpoNet Discussion Forum
*Return to Articles**
Details RE:parker/Cerio relationship
March 21 2005 at 12:10 PM
No score for this post"KENPOJOE" Rebelo * (Login KENPOJOE)
from IP address 64.12.116.66
"Hi Folks!
I was asked the other night to look at Kenponet and post regarding this particular thread. I know that I have posted to various boards on this matter and I will make an active point of adding this particular post to the FAQ on my website to insure that people can refer to it in the future.
1.Nick Cerio-Ed Parker relationship:
Nick Cerio initially met Mr. Parker at a Karate tournament in New York in the mid to late 1960's,when Mr. Parker was travelling throughout the USA,attending various major karate events [remember: Back then major karate tournaments were far and few between]. Mr. Cerio became the new england IKKA representative at that time and awarded IKKA Black Belt certificates [the small certificates with the japanese kanji as opposed to the chinese writing] to various individuals [such as Bill Marciarelli of Fall River]under the auspices of the IKKA because Mr. Parker trusted Mr. Cerio to do so and promote the IKKA. I saw one of those certificates when I visited Mr. Marciarelli's second floor dojo [upstairs via spiral staircase from the weightlifting gym] and saw the most amount of pictures /posters [all autographed] of Prof Chow I had ever seen in my life in one place! There, he [marciarelli] had a small IKKA certificate promoting him to one of his black belt degrees with Mr. Parker's,Mr. Cerio's and Ernest Lieb's [president of the AKA] signature. I found it strange that Ernest Lieb's name was listed as a signature on the board and phoned Mr. Parker about it. He told me "I would never have ernest lieb sign one of my certificates.". I do not think that is a disparaging remark about Mr. Lieb, rather stating that only kenpo people normally signed board listings. Perhaps that was one of the reasons that Mr. Cerio left the IKKA initially.
In 1969,Nick Cerio and Bill Marciarelli would go to Hawaii to train with Bill Chun and Prof. Chow. I personally have a copy of the honolulu inquirer newspaper article [provided by Mr. Marciarelli's student]that was written regarding Prof Chow and the visiting Black Belts from New England. Both Prof. Cerio and GM Marciarelli have both told me stories of their training with Prof. Chow over the years and I interviewed Mr. Marciarelli for my TV show and featured pictures of his training with Chow. BTW, Marciarelli went back in 1981 and met again with Chow and had his son test before Prof.Chow at that time. But I digress...
Nick Cerio would associate himself with Prof. Chow in the late 1960's -early 1970's and list himself as receiving his 3rd or 5th dan from Chow [I have the 1968,69 and 71 tournament programs from Mr. Marciarelli's event that clearly list Mr. Cerio's ranks and affiliations st that time]. Later, He would study Hung Gar/Sil Lum under Gin Fong Chin and after attending a local karate tournament, Chin would state "you are just as good as those people wearing 8th degree" and promote him [cerio] to eighth degree with the title of "sifu". Later he [cerio] would use the title "shihan" and was known by this title prior to Chow's death. In the early 1980's, Then "Shihan" Cerio, along with Kalaii Griffin and Tony & Doreen Cogliandro contacted Mr. Parker regarding joining the IKKA and reactivating it throughout New England. The first IKKA new england meeting was held at Revere Karate Academy in revere,ma in 1983. [photos of the meeting were featured in issues of inside karate and official karate magazines at that time]Mr. Leo Lacerte of New Bedford,MA, one of my old kung fu instructors & a person who i had tested with under another instructor in Kenpo karate [New England {villari based}]for our black belts together, was at that meeting and at one point would ask prof. cerio if they could use the parker names of the techniques for techniques they already had. Prof. Cerio stated "no" because they were already established in the Parker system, however, after Prof. Cerio left the IKKA, he would do just that himself for his own system [NCK],leading to confusion between parker/cerio students in regards to certain techniques. During that time frame, Mr. Parker would promote Nick Cerio to the rank of 9th degree black belt through the IKKA...now for the rest of the story [to quote paul harvey]Many of the EPAK seniors knew that Mr. Parker would only promote someone in EPAK up to the rank of seventh degree black belt at that timeframe. Anyone who received an 8th Degree or above was in THEIR RESPECTIVE ARTS and not in EPAK! {such as Elvis Presley,Toru Tanaka [Charlie Kalani],Kalaii Griffin,etc...}This was not common knowledge among most people but it was known among the hierarchy in the IKKA [Hence the reason Joe Palanzo may asked that he and huk be promoted to 8th degree after Mr. Parker's death],So, although it was a large IKKA certificate that was awarded Prof. Cerio, it was in recognizition of his art and his "contributions to the art" and the promotion of the IKKA in New England. Prof. Cerio would leave the IKKA shortly thereafter and I willl not dicuss the possible or probable reasons for that on this forum. To the best of my knowledge,There is no expiration date line on prof cerio's certificate but that was done on certificates afterwards to avoid "hit and run" promotions where people would test under Mr. Parker and then never train in EPAK. I have old IKKA small certificates and even one Large IKKA BB rank certificate that had expiration dates on them so that practice was done during the 1980's. I will look back at the thread to see if there are any questions I haven't addressed but I hope this will clarrify the situation. Thankfully, I was there when a lot of these things were happening and/or asked the individuals involved personally and sometimes have them on video detailing out these incidents/events.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE"
Hi Folks!
Thanks for quoting me regarding this matter! If there is anything else you have questions regarding this time period, please let me know!
I hope that I can be of some service,
KENPOJOE
 

KENPOJOE

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hI fOLKS,
btw, if look in the kenponet or yahoo's pw wood's kenpo message board, you should find a post i did where i listed the known 7th degrees under mr parker before his death. I took the list from past ikka newsletters
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
 

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