When the conspiracy theorists are right...

[Bill Mattocks]

Interesting story today...

http://www.freep.com/article/201202...ulmutallab?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Passengers speak at Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab sentencing
1:58 PM, February 16, 2012
We’re back in federal court in Detroit today -- amid tight security – for the sentencing of failed underwear bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who is facing the possibility of several consecutive life prison terms for trying to blow up a Detroit-bound jetliner on Christmas Day 2009.
2:27 p.m.

Kurt Haskell just stepped to the podium.

Choking up, he praised Mason for putting out the fire on the plane and saving everyone’s lives.

He said he and his wife were on the flight returning from an African safari. While sitting at the airport, he said he saw Abdulmutallab being escorted through security by a man in a tan suit who spoke perfect English.

The airline gate worker initially refused to let Abdulmutallab to board until the man in the tan suit intervened.

“Little did I know that Umar would try to kill me,” he said.

He said the incident has changed his life.

He said passengers were kept on the plane after it landed in Detroit without any concern about the explosives on the plane. He said passengers were taken into the terminal without anyone checking their bags or for possible accomplices.

It soon became obvious that the FBI wasn’t concerned about anything he had to say, including the man in the tan suit.

He said Abdulmutallab was allowed to board the plane without a passport and going through security. He said he’s disappointed that the U.S. government allowed Abdulmutallab to get onto the plane.

“Regardless of how media and government try to shape this case, I am convinced that Umar was given an intentionally defective bomb by a U.S. agent… to stage a false terrorist attack to be used to implement various government policies. It really saddens me that the government won’t admit its role in the event. Because of this case, I will never trust anything the government says, ever.”

Then, Haskell turned to Abdulmutallab.

“Umar, you are not a Muslim martyr. You are merely a government patsy.”

He urged Edmunds to give Abdulmutallab the maximum sentence.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_kurt_hask.html

It is obvious that there is something more to this than a single bomber. Kurt Haskell is clearly not lying; he stood up on court and said what he said today and nobody, not even the FBI, can make him shut up; if he was lying, he'd be arrested. He has testified to this in court; if he was lying, he'd be charged with perjury.

Something else is going on, and I'm with Kurt; I'll never trust our government again. They're liars of the first water.

 

[granfire]

what...
you trusted the government?!
Really?

 

[Josh Oakley]

You trusted it in the first place?

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[Bill Mattocks]

what...
you trusted the government?!
Really?

Trusted? No. But the tin-foil helmet conspiracy buffs, I trust less. This time, they might be on to something.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

You trusted it in the first place?

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

I never put down to a conspiracy what can be explained by incompetence and stupidity. This time, it might have been the former.

 

[granfire]

Trusted? No. But the tin-foil helmet conspiracy buffs, I trust less. This time, they might be on to something.

Oh well, I don't trust those, but a healthy dose of skepticism....

 

[ballen0351]

Who still wears Tan suits? I mean really.

 

[David43515]

The fact that the person who escorted him through security spoke English well doesn`t automatically mean he worked for the US govt. I`m sure there was a conspiracy to get that bomb on board,I just doubt we were in on it.

I don`t beleive everything the govt tells me, but that doesn`t mean they`re behind every failed terror plot either.

 

[Makalakumu]

Shortly after this event, it was announced that everybody boarding a plane was going to get a naked body scan in order to find bombs. Later we find that former homeland security director, Michael Chertoff, cut a deal with the company that he later headed up to make naked body scanners for the airports.

Yup, this whole thing stinks...

 

[Makalakumu]

Here's Kurt's full statement to the court.

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-ku...operation-during-underwear-bomber-sentencing/

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The fact that the person who escorted him through security spoke English well doesn`t automatically mean he worked for the US govt. I`m sure there was a conspiracy to get that bomb on board,I just doubt we were in on it.

I don`t beleive everything the govt tells me, but that doesn`t mean they`re behind every failed terror plot either.

No, it doesn't. This does, though:

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-ku...operation-during-underwear-bomber-sentencing/

I became further saddened from this case, when Patrick Kennedy of the State Department during Congressional hearings, admitted that Umar was a known terrorist, was being followed, and the U.S. allowed him into the U.S. so that it could catch Umar’s accomplices. I was once again shocked and saddened when Michael Leiter of the National Counter terrorism Center admitted during these same hearings that intentionally letting terrorists into the U.S. was a frequent practice of the U.S. Government. I cannot fully explain my sadness, disappointment and fear when I realized that my government allowed an attack on me intentionally.

During this time, I questioned if my country intentionally put a known terrorist onto my flight with a live bomb. I had many sleepless nights over this issue. My answer came shortly thereafter. In late 2010, the FBI admitted to giving out intentionally defective bombs to the Portland Christmas Tree Bomber,the Wrigley Field Bomber and several others. Further, Mr. Chambers was quoted in the Free Press on January 11, 2011 when he indicated that the government’s own explosives experts had indicated that Umar’s bomb was impossibly defective. I wondered how that could be. Certainly, I thought, Al Qaeda wouldn’t go through all of the trouble to plan such an attack only to provide the terrorist with an impossibly defective bomb.

Something stinks, really badly. I'm sorry that this has been relegated to la-la tinfoil hat land. I'm usually on the side telling the loonies to sit down and shut up. I think they have a point this time.

 

[Makalakumu]

This unfortunately fits a pattern with our government. Its hard to know who actually is a terrorist and who was set up. And we're supposed to just trust them with NDAA? If they can entrap someone or outright lie, anyone could get thrown into a torture hole with no due process.

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[Tez3]

I love that fact that no one ever takes into account that people just cock up sometimes and what they think is a conspiracy could be done to something as simple as someones's bad judgement/laziness/ignorance/tiredness/bad mood/stupidity etc etc which is more often than not the 'cause' of many so called conspiracies.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I love that fact that no one ever takes into account that people just cock up sometimes and what they think is a conspiracy could be done to something as simple as someones's bad judgement/laziness/ignorance/tiredness/bad mood/stupidity etc etc which is more often than not the 'cause' of many so called conspiracies.

I can easily suspect simple incompetence regarding the initial police/FBI response to the attack. However once they have had time to get their ducks in a row, for example during subsequent FBI interviews where they made it clear they 'did not want to know' about the way Umar made it onto the plane in the first place, sans passport, and they way they denied there was a 'man in a tan suit' until they were literally forced to admit it under oath, make me think this is not a simple case of morons with badges playing silly buggers. The FBI clearly knew either beforehand or shortly afterwards about the way Umar was 'treated specially' to get him on the plane with his bomb (real or fake) and clearly chose not to pursue this avenue and even more tellingly, refused to even admit such a person existed until forced to under oath.

No, this is something more. I trust my gut. The same sense that tells me to tell people like Makalakuma that they're seeing ninjas behind every blade of grass is telling that this time, the ninjas are real.

 

[Sukerkin]

The man does have a point, I do agree. I am not surprised to hear of such operations going on, for the covert services have ever shown a passion for such 'tricksy plays' since the moment of their inception.

Whether this was a False Flag operation to facilitate some other action or a sting to entrap the bad guy I am not so sure, however.

 

[Tez3]

However anyone with a smidgen of imagination can think up stories to account for a 'man in a tan suit' and all the rest.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Whether this was a False Flag operation to facilitate some other action or a sting to entrap the bad guy I am not so sure, however.

I agree. However, 'sting' operations, no matter how covert when being implemented, are announced later, and most especially at trial. The government has no incentive to disguise the actual effort to arrest the bad guy, and in fact must do so.

Whether this something rather mundane in the way of lying and deceit, a local cockup that was later covered up at higher levels (ala Fast and Furious), or something a bit more sinister, I cannot say and I won't speculate on what I don't know. But no, I do not think this was a simple sting. Regardless of what else it might have been, it involved the government lying through its teeth to the public about it for no apparent reason. And this sort of thing always begs the question; if the government felt the need to cover up any involvement in this beyond that of the terrorist himself, WHY?

 

[ballen0351]

Not saying this is the case but there are several reasons why they wouldn't say it was a sting. Could still be an ongoing investigation, could be trying to protect an informant that may still be inbedded in the terror groups, might not have been a sting at all, could have been a foreign govt involved and the US can't talk about it. Who knows.

 

[Makalakumu]

The same sense that tells me to tell people like Makalakuma that they're seeing ninjas behind every blade of grass is telling that this time, the ninjas are real.

:angel:

Be careful, once you see a couple of ninjas, you never know where they could be hiding.

In all seriousness, it's things like this that erode public confidence in elected officials. We're supposed to have a social contract and be able to trust what is happening behind the scenes, but I don't think that's possible anymore. I expect that more and more people are going to come to this conclusion as time goes on. Will it lead to a lot more erroneous suspicion? Sure. It's also going to root out more and more corruption because people will be paying attention.

:drinkbeer

Cheers to tinfoil hats becoming a badge of skepticism. LOL!

 

[granfire]

we call it stimulus:
I hope you got stock in Reynold's