What to do during a police encounter...

[Anarax]

CAVEAT: I am not speaking officially, nor am I giving legal guidance. I'm offering my personal insights and opinions as a law enforcement officer in the United States.

As tempted as I am, I'm not going to start with Chris Rock's video -- even though it's actually got some good advice, cached as comedy. Towards the end, I'm going to pull up some links to the advice given by several police departments.

There are lots of reasons for the police to make contact with you. To begin with, a police officer can walk up and talk to anyone who's willing to talk to them; this is a consensual encounter. It's easy to stop, too... Just say "I don't want to talk to you right now." That's it. Don't go into a harangue about how the cops are always picking on you or whatever... The cop is just doing his job. He may even just be bored!

There are times that the police will stop you, and be a bit more insistent. They need reasonable articulable suspicion to detain you briefly for investigation; that suspicion can come from facts and circumstances relayed to them (like a lookout for a suspect), a complaint or tip called into the PD, or simply a combination of things that they can point to, which based on their training and experience suggest that "criminal activity may be afoot." Answer the officer's questions. Be polite. If they ask for ID, give it to them. You CAN inquire politely about why they're detaining you -- but understand they may not give full details. The officer may pat you down briefly for weapons, if they have reason to suspect weapons. (I routinely pat down gang members, for example, because I know, based on my training and experience, that gang members carry concealed weapons.) They may also handcuff you, depending on exactly what they know. For example, if you match the physical description of a wanted suspect... you're probably getting cuffed till they figure out what's up. If you're not doing anything wrong, the officer will probably get enough information to dispel their suspicions and send you on the way.

Finally, you might be stopped because you did indeed do something wrong. This may be traffic related (speeding, rolling a stop sign, missing tags, etc.) or because you're trespassing in a closed park, or some other violation of the law that you may not even be aware of. You won't be given a chance to leave here... You're in the wrong -- even if you didn't know it. (I'm assuming that nobody here will deliberately commit a serious violation of the law!) The officer will conduct an investigation; for a traffic stop, that means collecting your license, registration, and any other paperwork, probably checking the license status, and deciding whether or not to issue a ticket. The details will vary depending on exactly what they're dealing with.

My advice is going to boil down to go with the program. There's a time and place to argue and to complain. It's not in the field. But:

• Be polite. Answer the officer's questions -- or if you choose not to, say nothing.
• Common law does permit you to resist a wrongful arrest (state laws may vary!). However, unless you are beyond certain that it's wrongful... I'd strongly urge you to simply cooperate. Complain later, and defend yourself at court. It's a really good bet that you'll still go to jail -- and the resisting arrest charge or assault on an officer charge may stick even if the original charge didn't.
• Listen carefully to the officer; more than one person has argued themselves into a ticket or arrest because they got indignant as an officer tried to offer them a break.
• On a traffic stop:
  • Remain in your car until/unless asked to exit.
  • Turn off your radio and hang up your cell phone. I assure you -- the cop is the most important person to listen to during the stop! He's the one who will be deciding about giving you a ticket, or even whether you go to jail.
  • At night -- turn on the dome light so that the officer can see inside your car.
  • Be polite; treat the cop the same way you want him to treat you.
  • Don't move around a lot, and keep your hands in plain view. YOU know you don't have a gun in your glove box and that you just dropped your wallet under your seat. The cop doesn't.
  • If you get a ticket -- don't argue it on the side of the road. The cop's probably literally got his butt in traffic, and he's not going to want to listen. Take your ticket, sign if necessary, and come to court. Let the judge decide who was right.
• In a field encounter/subject stop:
  • Stand still, and don't put your hands in your pockets. You know you don't have a gun or hand grenade in your pocket; the cop doesn't!
  • Be polite; treat the cop the same way you want to be treated.
  • HANG UP YOUR CELL PHONE. Don't talk on the Bluetooth headset, either.
  • Listen to the officer's questions; answer them or don't -- but don't argue or complain.
  • If you are arrested -- don't resist. Yes, you may be justified in resisting an unlawful arrest. You almost certainly won't succeed. You stand a good chance of getting hurt. You may not be able to get a bond. And you aren't guaranteed to win at trial, either.
• Search and seizure, and Miranda rights are both too big a topic for me to address here.
• Handcuffs:
  • Yes, they're uncomfortable. We know; who do you think we practice putting them on?
  • Generally, the "hole" is oval. Your wrist is oval, too. If you twist and turn... you'll end up with the long axis of your wrist running across the short axis of the cuff. The cuff is steel; it's not going to give very much.
  • Yes, you will almost certainly be cuffed with your hands behind your back. Most agency general orders require this. Officer safety strongly encourages it. If you have shoulder injuries or other problems -- politely tell the officer. He is responsible for your safety -- and will do what he REASONABLY can to work around your injury.
  • You can be cuffed without being arrested. A common phrase at that point is "You're not under arrest; I'm just putting these on for your safety and mine."

What if you think the cop was wrong, rude, unjustified? First, don't argue in the field. It's not the time or place. Argue your case in front of a judge. If you think the officer did something wrong, file a complaint. Speak to his supervisor. If you aren't satisfied, go up the chain. Just like yelling at the cash register clerk isn't likely to solve a consumer problem, yelling at the cop in the street isn't going to improve your situation. And can make it much worse. If the agency isn't responding, go to the state attorney general or state police (or both). If they don't respond -- got to the FBI.

OK... I said I wouldn't start with it -- but here it is:

Links: I scanned these quickly; they seem decent, and actually represent a few takes. My agency is deliberately not included, as I am not speaking officially.

What Are Your Rights If You Are Stopped By The Police | ExpertLaw

Police Traffic Stops and Vehicle Searches: FAQs - FindLaw

What to Do When Stopped by a Police Officer

What to Do If the Police Stop You

http://www.ric.edu/campuspd/documents/whattodo.pdf

http://bloomington.in.gov/documents/viewDocument.php?document_id=912

I usually do the following.

1. Be as uncooperative and condescending as possible for no reason.

2. Repeatedly yell I'M A SOVEREIGN CITIZEN, I'M A SOVERIGN CITIZEN

3. Call them Nazis and claim police brutality

Just kidding. I've been pulled over numerous times(traffic violations) and I always treat them with respect and they do the same. More then half the time they don't even give me a ticket

 

[Dirty Dog]

I always make sure I have my gun in hand, and yell "I have a gun" to make sure the officer knows I'm armed.
Or not.
I find the advice "Don't be a **** waffle" good. Be civil and odds are the officer will be too.

 

[CB Jones]

I always make sure I have my gun in hand, and yell "I have a gun" to make sure the officer knows I'm armed.
Or not.
I find the advice "Don't be a **** waffle" good. Be civil and odds are the officer will be too.

You should try the Blazing Saddles routine.

(With gun to your own head and with a tough guy voice) "get back or the bald guy gets it"

(Then in a scared voice) "he'll do it...he's crazy"

 

[Daniela455]

Great information. Very useful

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Just do not answer any questions. Regardless of the situation. I know this is going to upset a few people, but the questions you are asked, are designed to get you to admit to a crime.

Just hand them your info and keep your mouth shut.

Also, study the U.C.C. codes, this is where you will find a majority of what police can and can not do.

Remember these are administrative police and courts, designed under commercial laws and statutes. Admiralty law is completely different than Constitutional law.

Other than the Sheriff's Department, none are constitutional law enforcement.

 

[Buka]

S.T.F.U Friday

 

[Bruce7]

Everyones post were good.
I respect police officers and the hard job they do.
Being white, respectful, and law abiding, I have had good outcomes from speaking with police officers.

Having said that some police officer use their power to beat people up for fun.
When I was in the Navy in San Diego alot of police officers beat up sailers for sport.
For that matter a lot of the people in general treated servicemen badly.
It became so bad the Admiral had everyone stay on base for 3 days until the mayor told him things would improve.

A sailor who was from Utah and me went to the movies in the suburbs by bus, the bus came back to downtown around 9:00 PM so we could catch the bus back to base. Walking with the light the police turn a corner and nearly ran over us. My friend who never said a bad word in his life yelled watch what you are doing, you nearly ran over us. The police car stop and burn rubber up the street in
reverse and jump the curve in front of us. I said I was sorry, but my friend said you need to watch how your driving you could hurt someone.They both turn on him and said some bad words. One was so mad he was about to hit my friend with his stick. I grab his arm.
Next thing I knew I was on the ground handcuffed. Then he grab the chain and pulled me up off the ground I though my arms were going break before I got to my feet. They were about to walk me to their car. Shore Patrol in a van and 4 SPs jump out of the van and said this guy is ours. In the van they ask me what I did, I started crying and told them what happen. They told me if they had got me in the car they would have beat me up real bad they had seen it before. When we got to base they let me go and told me to stay on base.

I still had the jaywalking ticket. So on my day off I went to court. Sat there for hours waiting my turn. I told the the D.A I was not guilty. He told me police officers don't write tickets for nothing. I told him where I come from police officer don't handcuff and hurt you, I want to tell the judge what happen. He tore up the ticket and would not let me talk to the judge.

 

[Buka]

It's a Yin Yang thing for me.



On the flip side, having spent way to much time in L.A. I will never go to that city again. You know why? Because of the police. Hell, I almost got shot for jaywalking there in the nineties. SHOT. I'm talking three officers unsnapping their holsters. I didn't even know what jaywalking was back then, it was kind of a sport in Boston.

My distrust and distaste for L.A.P.D has only intensified over the years.

 

[Bruce7]

It's a Yin Yang thing for me.

View attachment 22417

On the flip side, having spent way to much time in L.A. I will never go to that city again. You know why? Because of the police. Hell, I almost got shot for jaywalking there in the nineties. SHOT. I'm talking three officers unsnapping their holsters. I didn't even know what jaywalking was back then, it was kind of a sport in Boston.

My distrust and distaste for L.A.P.D has only intensified over the years.

IMO, The way police officers act depends a lot on where you are.
I live in the suburbs for the past 30 years and the police are very helpful.
I went to downtown Houston, I was lost and pulled up to a police car to ask directions, He look at me like he wanted to shoot me.
He waved me on and would not speak to me.
I am a little afraid of the police in Houston. They will shoot you for not much cause.
I know some Houston police officers, they are good people, but a big problem is they are not paid enough, so they take second jobs at bars.
They only get a few hours sleep and it affects their judgement on the job.

 

[Buka]

I agree that a lot depends on location. I live on the most isolated land mass on the planet. There are no checks and balances here from other agencies or political watchdogs - which is never a good thing.

Scary sometimes.

 

[pdg]

Hell, I almost got shot for jaywalking there in the nineties. SHOT. I'm talking three officers unsnapping their holsters. I didn't even know what jaywalking was back then, it was kind of a sport in Boston.

I had to Google jaywalking...

Over here, it's really, honestly, not a thing.

I can perfectly legally cross the road wherever the whim strikes me, or just wander along it. The only exception being motorways (a bit like a freeway I suppose, if you don't know what a motorway is you'll have to look it up).

Pedestrians have legal right of way over motor vehicles.

In some places the authorities would really rather you wouldn't enter the public highway on foot, so they erect barriers.

Punishment for hopping over the barrier?

You might get told you're a bit silly.

 

[pdg]

From the font of all knowledge, the great Wikipedia (I know the references to be correct):

the United Kingdom, does not have jaywalking laws; its Highway Code relies on the pedestrian making their own judgment on whether it is safe to cross based on the Green Cross Code. Pedestrians do have priority over turning vehicles. Rule 170 of the UK's Highway Code states that a driver should "watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way."

 

[JowGaWolf]

As tempted as I am, I'm not going to start with Chris Rock's video -- even though it's actually got some good advice,

ha ha ha.. Chris likes to mix in truth with his comedy. Rule #1 Don't piss the officer off. Rule #2 try to be the guy that the police officer really doesn't want to give a ticket to, or a beating to. Don't be that guy. lol. Rule #3 Keep your emotions in check.

A lot of that stuff is just common sense, that most people refuse to really pay attention to. Try to be the guy or gal that the officer will feel bad about arresting. That way your more likely to get whatever is coming.

A neutral and polite tone of confidence works well for me. A few years ago the police came to my house because some woman said that a man was peeing in the street and had fled to my house. I was polite and probably had that crazy expression on my face like?

Ok it wasn't that extreme, but I did show a little expression of confusion and WTF, Just enough for them to pick it up. Staying neutral when someone says something crazy only makes people question more. Over doing expressions does the same thing. But anyway the officer stuck his foot in the doorway and tried to ease his way in. So my family kind of blocked the entrance, Again nothing that signal a treat, but just enough to let the officer know he was overstepping his boundaries. The police are always looking for Subtle clues so I try to use that to my advantage.

When an officer is talking to me I want to control the situation as much as possible by not giving any reasoning to pry or to ask additional questions. The first thing they stated was why they were there. After that it was me asking questions like, What happened that brought you hear, who said that, I've been indoors all night, Why would I run to the back yard of my house when I have the key to my front door. These questions were from the perspective of a concerned citizen and not evasion.

5 or 10 minutes later they were hauling that crazy lady to jail for making a false report. They already knew who lived at the house, that's the first thing they check so I knew I had that going for me. The guys were nice but only because I made sure I kept the tone and conversation in friendly water. I was nice but not over nice.

I think people think forget that Police are train to pick up subtle body language and tone. There's no need to put it on blast. it's not going to take a lot for them to identify that you are mad or upset lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Being able to keep your cool in a bad situation does a lot of good things. It immediately brings you more respect, and it can help get you out of trouble if you're in trouble.

Holds true for everything, sparring, dating, fighting, arguments, tests, Emotions are good but sometimes they make things worst. Sometimes it clouds our thought. Instead of focus and thinking, we end up just reacting.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

NOTICE TO MartialTalk MEMBERS:

The thread has been cleaned up to remove some off-topic bickering. Please keep it more or less on-topic and civil. Any continuation of what was deleted (or similar) will result in the thread being locked, and may result in warnings and/or points being issued.

--------
Gerry Seymour
MartialTalk Moderator
@gpseymour

 

[Buka]

Can we start another thread about What to do During a Perp Encounter, or is that too close to home?

 

[geezer]

I agree that a lot depends on location. I live on the most isolated land mass on the planet.

Jeez, Buka ...You live in Antarctica? ...and they have cops there? Oh, I guess that explains why penguins are black and white.

 

[geezer]

...When an officer is talking to me I want to control the situation as much as possible ....

^^^^This is the key to de-escalating so many potentially confrontational situations. If you are really paying attention and in control of yourself, then you can politely and unobtrusively extend that control to the overall situation. A good start is just appearing cooperative and polite, but also calm and confident. Even appearing helpful (without being ingratiating) can't hurt.

Unlike what Guthrie advises in post #65, I'd suggest calmly and politely answering any reasonable questions, such as identifying yourself, presenting ID and so forth, ...unless you are being arrested for a crime. Then politely invoke your right to remain silent and get an attorney!

Finally, remember that if there is a problem, or if you are treated roughly, don't exacerbate the situation by spewing obscenities or physical resistance. It can only make things worse. These kinds of things are better settled later, filing complaints and /or in court ...especially if you have witnesses, video, and if the abusive situation was extreme enough to be worth pursuing.

 

[geezer]

...Other than the Sheriff's Department, none are constitutional law enforcement.

What is constitutional when challenged is ultimately determined by the Supreme Court of the United States, and not by your personal opinion (or the interpretations of any fringe group like the "Posse Comitatus").

Of course, you are more than welcome to adhere to said opinions, but regardless of how "right" and entitled you may feel, remember that in this real world, you may well end up in jail. Even if you feel it's unfair and unconstitutional. Wah! wah!

Sorry if that came of as harsh.

OK, not really

 

[Buka]

Jeez, Buka ...You live in Antarctica? ...and they have cops there? Oh, I guess that explains why penguins are black and white.

Now you're just being silly. They're actually part of the house staff.