Police Fear 'War On Cops'

MJS

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A spate of shooting attacks on police officers has authorities concerned about a war on cops.
In just 24 hours, at least 11 officers were shot. The shootings included Sunday attacks at traffic stops in Indiana and Oregon, a Detroit police station shooting that wounded four officers, a shootout at a Port Orchard, Wash., Wal-Mart that injured two deputies. On Monday morning, two officers were shot dead and a U.S. Marshal was wounded by a gunman authorities were attempting to arrest in St. Petersburg, Fla.

And then people wonder why cops are always on the edge, why you always see numerous cops on traffic stops, etc. Some will call it abuse of power, but I think its more CYA. In todays world, it seems that's the way that you have to be.
 

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In such widely dispersed locations? I doubt it. It's possible it's just a statistical coincidence. Not that that helps the families of the officers slain, war or no, coincidence or no. RIP.
 

Bob Hubbard

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I don't think there's an organized war, though there are a few groups out calling for cop heads. I haven't seen any of the recent deaths tied to those groups however, outside of Border Patrol incidents along the US/Mex border.
 

jks9199

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Organized? No. A social and political climate that is lending itself increasingly to attacks on cops, both as visible symbols of the government and of authority? Yes.
 
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MJS

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No, IMHO, I do not feel that there is a group or groups orgaizing some mass murder on LEOs. However, I think that in light of all of the recent shootings, people are not as afraid of either of the LEOs or the consequences, as they may have been.
 

Bob Hubbard

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The problem unfortunately guys is, we resent you. As more people view cops as tax collectors, 'special treatment class', and bullies, it gets harder to go back to Mayberry. It's an escalation. The criminal element gets harder, more aggressive, more tricky and more hostile. You have to be on the defense, at all times. They rack it up, you rack it up. I saw a sample of that 1st hand in 2005 when I had the FBI over to discuss a scam artist and give them evidence. They took 1 look at the wall rack of swords, and assumed as passive-defensive posture. 1 agent kept 1 hand inside his jacket right about where a shoulder holster would lay during our discussion.

The sad part of this is, this high-alert state is going to get innocent people injured and possibly killed, with the repercussions getting more cops injured or killed. We all lose.

Why do we resent you? Because we see repeatedly how "evil" you are. Yes, most of us are too stupid to understand that The Shield, CSI, and such are fiction. We watch 1 Youtube clip out of context and read a couple internet rants and suddenly we think there are armies of bad cops out there looking for us to give us a traffic ticket. Yes, we're paranoid idiots.

We're afraid of you. You have guns, and special privileges, and exemptions, and can brutalize us with us being unable to defend lest we face even worse. Because we 'know' that's how it is because our master the magic box told us so.

We see it taking 6-8 cars to handle 1 traffic stop, and see that as group bully action, and a waste of resources. 8 cars full of cops to give 1 old man a ticket. wow. We don't want to hear how those are 1 man cars, don't understand how dangerous those stops are, and think a vest is a magic safety shield and it's just overkill.

Add to that a climate of general fear. The economy, job and house loss, and fear of each other, and we're a powder keg that's smoking.

But.

We've been here before, and gotten through it. We will again.

Some people do understand, and try to keep thing sane. Outreach programs in some communities are restoring not just the trust but the lines of communications between cops and civilians. More are needed. Bad cops, those slime who get the lions share of the media are still a low percentage, and more are being punished. Some news media are focusing on 'good cop' stories.

There is a war on, but most of us are on the same side. We just need to remember that. I think the last 2 days are going to be an exception.

In the mean time, stay safe, stay aware and come home in 1 piece folks. We need you.
 

Rich Parsons

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Organized? No. A social and political climate that is lending itself increasingly to attacks on cops, both as visible symbols of the government and of authority? Yes.

I agree with JKS.

You add in people unemployed so long they are no longer being counted even with the almsot two year plus extensions that have occurred.

You add in lower property taxes and people walking away from home and milliages not passing, and you get less police on the roads.

Add in some frustration.

Add in some anger.

Add in some personal issue with authority or a remember incident with a NOT good police officer.

You have a powder keg, with people angry, and broke, and seeing no hope and no future, and less officers on the road, you get a situation with high stress on both sides that leds to high tension and easy triggers for people to loose it.
 

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Bob & Elder have both hit on parts of what I meant. But it goes deeper...

Popular culture is glorifying the gangsters and criminals while tearing down the cops and law abiding. Where in years past, even when the bad guys were made out to be the hero/anti-hero, it was always clear they were "bad guys" -- now many people simply don't care. Going to prison wasn't seen as a good thing or a career move...

Look for a moment at cop shows on TV. Think about Dragnet, whether on radio or TV, Adam 12, even CHIPS. The cops were the good guys, no doubt about it. Dirty cops were caught and punished. In private eye stories they might be made out to be bumbling fools, they might even have been comic foils like Barney Fife on the Andy Griffith Show, but the cops were good guys. You seldom saw shows featuring dirty cops. Now -- lots of the cop shows are about dirty cops, or cops that are ethically challenged (at best). I'm talking beyond portraying a nuanced character who isn't some unbelievable paragon of virtue -- but outright dirty, murdering, criminal cops.

Even the simple cultural relativism has degraded the place of police in society. If nothing is really wrong -- than it's not really wrong to disobey the law, as long as you can get away with it or justify it.
 

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Bob & Elder have both hit on parts of what I meant. But it goes deeper...

Popular culture is glorifying the gangsters and criminals while tearing down the cops and law abiding. Where in years past, even when the bad guys were made out to be the hero/anti-hero, it was always clear they were "bad guys" -- now many people simply don't care. Going to prison wasn't seen as a good thing or a career move...

Popular culture has always done so.
It was like that 20 years ago (God I'm getting old) when Tracy Marrow wrote 'cop killer'.
It was already like that when people adored billy the kid.
It already was like that when Ted Bundy rivaled the rolling stones in groupie-count.
America has always had a soft spot for anti-authority.

Look for a moment at cop shows on TV. Think about Dragnet, whether on radio or TV, Adam 12, even CHIPS. The cops were the good guys, no doubt about it. Dirty cops were caught and punished. In private eye stories they might be made out to be bumbling fools, they might even have been comic foils like Barney Fife on the Andy Griffith Show, but the cops were good guys. You seldom saw shows featuring dirty cops. Now -- lots of the cop shows are about dirty cops, or cops that are ethically challenged (at best). I'm talking beyond portraying a nuanced character who isn't some unbelievable paragon of virtue -- but outright dirty, murdering, criminal cops.

I think that it is also the rise of accessible media that has to do with this.
In the olden days, something bad happened, and the consequences were local.
Now, with large population densities and instant news coverage, something happens and tshtf.

LA exploded in riots when the officers involved in the rodney king case were acquitted. That was to be expected. But because such things are covered widely, Rodney king is a name that is known around the globe. I don't think there are many black people in LA who -when getting stopped by the police- are comfortable in the knowledge that 'the police is your friend'.

It doesn't matter that 99% of police officers are probably decent folks like the rest of us, just trying to get through life and raise a family. You don't make the news. The dirty cops do. Every time that a police cover-up is exposed, the situation gets worse. Especially since even when they are exposed, sometimes the people in charge still seem reluctant to take action. This way, people are taught to mistrust the police.

Even the simple cultural relativism has degraded the place of police in society. If nothing is really wrong -- than it's not really wrong to disobey the law, as long as you can get away with it or justify it.

That too is a thing of all times. I would gladly have been a bootlegger in the days of the prohibition. Suddenly the government decides that booze is bad and they completely forbid it on moral grounds? Who are they to tell me? And who are they to tell me that having gay sex in my private home is a crime? Freeing slaves was a crime too, yet I doubt that many people these days would call the people involved anything other than hero.

This is part of the problem in my opinion. If governments start inventing victimless crimes solely on 'moral' grounds, then you train people to disregard authority.
 

Sukerkin

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A most interesting point you make there, Bruno - one that bears some consideration.

I'm not sure that it is central to the core topic of this particular thread but it is certainly a part of the 'milieu' that is being spoken of. One aspect of that that is growing over here in England is the feeling that the police are actively acting to prevent you from 'defending' yourself or dealing with small 'social problems' yourself. That leads to a sense of powerlessness which in turn breeds a festering resentment (even in stolidly law abiding people like myself). What that resentment leads to is anybodies guess.
 

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And then people wonder why cops are always on the edge, why you always see numerous cops on traffic stops, etc. Some will call it abuse of power, but I think its more CYA. In todays world, it seems that's the way that you have to be.

The ones that aren't on edge are the ones that someday may become a target. It's not easy being "officer friendly" while at the same time being ever aware of the potential for some long past and perceived retribution. Trying to be approachable, while at the same time being leery of anyone that does approach. Trying to restrain someone with certain techniques, while that person has no restraints. When the officer gets hurt, it's just in the line of duty, but if you hurt somebody, it's having to defend yourself all over again with a lawsuit. Ever aware that your every action reflects on you, your department and your profession, while at times dealing with someone that just wants to hurt somebody. With a lot of the bad press these days toward law enforcement, who in their right mind would want to join those ranks. On the other hand, be thankful for the ones that do. :asian:
 
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Archangel M

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Something I see too...even here in places. Is everybodies pet "cop story" where "officer X" didn't do something that the speaker/poster wanted them (or expected them) to do.

"She put cuffs on me!!!"

"He pulled me over for no reason and searched mt car!!!"

"I have a friend...who has a brother who worked with a guy...who was pulled over and BEATEN for no reason and let go."

Often times these get acceped with "oohh thats TERRIBLE!" by everybody participating in the conversation.

It seems like whenever it's (the hypothetical)YOU who is the person who gets a ticket, or is confronted by a police officer, theres always some "issue" with what the cop did.

I have many firsthand experiences where I was at a call and saw with my own eyes what happened. Later some citizen would call with a complaint describing events that NEVER happened. Sometimes they are just *******s who are trying to minimize their culpability or get a court case to go askew..but other times I can only assume that it's a case of people looking at events through their own lens. A lens warped by emotions, an inflated sense of self-worth and possibly from being raised to believe that they are always above reproach.

A part of this picture is a lack of personal responsibility and a "I never do wrong therefore the cop must be wrong" attitude.

Not to imply that ALL of these stories are "made up". Some likely are cases of a less than stellar officer, but from what I have experienced there is a large dose of what I have described above going on and I think that Bob struck close to a likely reason for it.
 
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MJS

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The ones that aren't on edge are the ones that someday may become a target. It's not easy being "officer friendly" while at the same time being ever aware of the potential for some long past and perceived retribution. Trying to be approachable, while at the same time being leery of anyone that does approach. Trying to restrain someone with certain techniques, while that person has no restraints. When the officer gets hurt, it's just in the line of duty, but if you hurt somebody, it's having to defend yourself all over again with a lawsuit. Ever aware that your every action reflects on you, your department and your profession, while at times dealing with someone that just wants to hurt somebody. With a lot of the bad press these days toward law enforcement, who in their right mind would want to join those ranks. On the other hand, be thankful for the ones that do. :asian:

Great points. :) Unfortunately, the general public doesnt see it this way. I certainly tip my hat for those that do that job day after day. Like I've said in other posts, my Grandfather retired from a PD, a few minutes north of where I live. Its amazing at how much has changed from then to today. 10 times the violence and crime.
 
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MJS

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Bob & Elder have both hit on parts of what I meant. But it goes deeper...

Popular culture is glorifying the gangsters and criminals while tearing down the cops and law abiding. Where in years past, even when the bad guys were made out to be the hero/anti-hero, it was always clear they were "bad guys" -- now many people simply don't care. Going to prison wasn't seen as a good thing or a career move...

Look for a moment at cop shows on TV. Think about Dragnet, whether on radio or TV, Adam 12, even CHIPS. The cops were the good guys, no doubt about it. Dirty cops were caught and punished. In private eye stories they might be made out to be bumbling fools, they might even have been comic foils like Barney Fife on the Andy Griffith Show, but the cops were good guys. You seldom saw shows featuring dirty cops. Now -- lots of the cop shows are about dirty cops, or cops that are ethically challenged (at best). I'm talking beyond portraying a nuanced character who isn't some unbelievable paragon of virtue -- but outright dirty, murdering, criminal cops.

Even the simple cultural relativism has degraded the place of police in society. If nothing is really wrong -- than it's not really wrong to disobey the law, as long as you can get away with it or justify it.

Whats amazing about the shows that you mention, is there is always the 'happy ending' where everything falls into place, and everything is perfect. So, people today, who've watched those shows, get a distorted view of what police work is really like. I used to watch CHIPS all the time. Amazing how even if there was a foot chase, the officer always seemed to get the bad guy, little to no resistance, cuffs slapped on, etc. Funny how that same scene today, doesnt play out the same.
 

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Bruno -- you've got a valid point, and I was never trying to say that we haven't always had some praising or fandom of the anti-hero. But the cops were seldom portrayed as the bad guys in the same way they are today. People certainly didn't like getting speeding tickets or otherwise coming afoul of the law -- and there always the stories of speed traps as revenue boosters, and the like -- but it seemed much more understood that the cops were generally the good guys.

In the US, at least, there's been a shift in the cultural climate to have much more tolerance for outright law breaking. Being a gangster has become "cool" in a way that it wasn't. Tracy Morrow/Ice-T contributed to this, as did a lot of others. They pulled attitudes that were once much more limited to a small segment of society in the ghettos to a popular front.
 

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And let me try to say this so that I don't come off sounding bad...

Something that some of the "old dogs" and retired guys say is that back in the 60's-70's they were able to be somewhat more "free with their use of force" let me say. Saps, batons and a "beat down" was the way business was generally conducted. They say that people were a LOT more respectfull back then. I bet they were.

Not that I am suggesting that it was "right" back then..that I agree with what they did or that I want to go back to it. But part of me wonders if there isn't some sort of insight into human nature there.
 

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I have many firsthand experiences where I was at a call and saw with my own eyes what happened. Later some citizen would call with a complaint describing events that NEVER happened. Sometimes they are just *******s who are trying to minimize their culpability or get a court case to go askew..but other times I can only assume that it's a case of people looking at events through their own lens. A lens warped by emotions, an inflated sense of self-worth and possibly from being raised to believe that they are always above reproach.

You are right and I concede that this is a problem.

However, I think most people are aware on some level that it is as you say. We all know that stories from a friend of a friend who knew this guy... are not all too reliable.
The most damage seems to be done by those rare instances where there is indeed overwhelming evidence that a cop acted dirty, and the issue is swept under the rug. I mean we all know some people go bad. No different from other people. If such a person would be nailed to the cross as soon as he is found out, noone would fault the department (imo). But a coverup will immediately make the entire department suspect, no matter if the other 99% of cops in that department are good people.

Imo you (the police) are facing the same issue as Catholic clergy today.
The instances where the people in charge knew about the child abuse and swept it under the rug have completely destroyed the faith of the general population in the clergy.

And as with the clergy, people are even more outraged at dirty cops, because you are supposed to be the good guys. You're supposed to be the ones we can trust. Noone expects us to trust a random stranger, but we're supposed to trust (or at least cooperate with and listen to) the police.
 

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And let me try to say this so that I don't come off sounding bad...

Something that some of the "old dogs" and retired guys say is that back in the 60's-70's they were able to be somewhat more "free with their use of force" let me say. Saps, batons and a "beat down" was the way business was generally conducted. They say that people were a LOT more respectfull back then. I bet they were.

Not that I am suggesting that it was "right" back then..that I agree with what they did or that I want to go back to it. But part of me wonders if there isn't some sort of insight into human nature there.

I don't think so, actually.
There was more fear. And there was more cooperation.
Because noone wanted to end up without his teeth at the bottom of the stairs or the sidewalk, or worse. But that doesn't automatically mean they respected the police.

Respect is what you get if people feel they can trust your word, and trust that you do the right thing.
 

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The thing is I don't believe that there really all that many cases of bad cops being "swept under the rug". I do see a number of "lynch mob" types who want to have cops fired for incidents that don't require firing.

of course there ARE those departments where corruption is widely known to be rampant (New Orleans). They of course skew the lens.
 

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