What Really Works - Kathy Long
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AdrenalineJunky
Black Belt
Glock-Fu works.
Eviscerate
Yellow Belt
Im thinking to myself that composure would probably go a lot further than any set of techniques. Then again don't discount the psycological effects of composure and a stiff 1-2 combination, even in a womans hands. =)
I don't disagree with most of what she said. I don't advocate most women punching most men, either - too easy to break the hand/wrist/fingers and then you're one weapon down.
But there are a few good uses for the feet ... not necessarily kicking.
I'd like to read more feedback from others on this as well.
But there are a few good uses for the feet ... not necessarily kicking.
I'd like to read more feedback from others on this as well.
AdrenalineJunky
Black Belt
That may be true, but I have long thought, without any real experience, that extensive training in BJJ from the guard position (i.e., on your back with your legs wrapped around your opponent) would be beneficial for WSD instructors. If a guy's trying to rape you, I suspect the odds that he'll drop right into that position are pretty great.
I think MMA style training from guard is a tool that your WDS tool-box cannot be without; not that it's a preferable position to place yourself in, but that it should be emphasized, rather than ignored, incase you end up on your back, with a baddie between your legs.
MardiGras Bandit
Green Belt
NO! Every guy expects a women to fight like this, using standard hysterical girl tactics. If your groundfighting consists of hitting the groin (often not possible) and eye gouges, you are going to get severely beaten. Everyone, and women in particular, needs to have a basic sense of how to act on the ground if they want to consider themselves prepared for an attack.
I'm not saying women should start pulling guard if a guy with a gun asks for their purse, far from it. But if a women is taken to the ground, or the fight begins there (for example, sex turns into rape), Long's advice is terrible. A women facing a rape needs to know how to grapple, it's the one situation where an attack is almost guaranteed to take place on the ground. Knowing how to submit and sweep from guard, escape from backmount, and get off of the ground will be far more useful then clawing at her attackers eyes.
AdrenalineJunky
Black Belt
Also, I've been told that anyone who doesn't know BJJ, who gets into it with a BJJer, has no clue what the heck is going on. That's where the rapist should be in that situation: dazed and confused while the chick's going for an arm-bar, triangle or *giggles* a rear naked.
Newspaper headlines:
"Rapist gets choked out by victim"
Newspaper headlines:
"Rapist gets choked out by victim"
Dark
Purple Belt
Two things stand out to me, one she never addressed the real issue with women self-defense i.e. reality. The reality factor that most women, especially the one's who come to a self-defense class have been imprinted with "women must be a danty and delicate lady" or the "I can not be a victim" attitudes. Those attitudes either cause the women to be afraid to act aggressively, the exact opposite of mancho male culture. Or attempt to prove themselves through "inviting an attack" by ignoring certain social codes.
The second factor is the "don't recommend grappling line" grappling doesn't always mean ground fighting, just like striking doesn't mean always stand up. The concept of not grappling is way off. A good arm-lock can, or better yet a break can, be a fight stopper, shoot break a few fingers. If you assaulted for your purse the attacker will hit you before you see them coming, if it's a rape then we all know the situation, as everyone has stated...
Other then that I thought the basic concept kinda generalized and aplicatable for men as well, especially since not all men are buff UFC types lol...
The second factor is the "don't recommend grappling line" grappling doesn't always mean ground fighting, just like striking doesn't mean always stand up. The concept of not grappling is way off. A good arm-lock can, or better yet a break can, be a fight stopper, shoot break a few fingers. If you assaulted for your purse the attacker will hit you before you see them coming, if it's a rape then we all know the situation, as everyone has stated...
Other then that I thought the basic concept kinda generalized and aplicatable for men as well, especially since not all men are buff UFC types lol...
AdrenalineJunky
Black Belt
Dark said:
Thai clinch defense and counter-offense is perfect for a guy trying to grap at a woman's neck.
I'll admit that there are some things taught in womens SD classes, that should probably be substituted for something a bit more effective and a bit simpler. As for the ground work, I do feel that this is an important area. I do think though, that the focus should not be on rolling around, looking for a submission, but instead, the most effective way to escape the bad position, get back to your feet and continue a defense from there or run.
Mike
Mike
Eviscerate
Yellow Belt
Dark said:Two things stand out to me, one she never addressed the real issue with women self-defense i.e. reality. The reality factor that most women, especially the one's who come to a self-defense class have been imprinted with "women must be a danty and delicate lady" or the "I can not be a victim" attitudes. Those attitudes either cause the women to be afraid to act aggressively, the exact opposite of mancho male culture. Or attempt to prove themselves through "inviting an attack" by ignoring certain social codes.
You're talking about mentality here, which in my opinion can be taught, learned and is probably gonna get someone further then any set of pre set physical responses. Waiting on that eye gouge for 10 seconds till something heavy is near at hand might be better than going all out right away. Enduring some of whats in store could be a great motivator to really stick it to someone and thats how mentality comes into play. Understanding what your adversary is thinking and pre-emting them mentally might be a lot better than jumping on them physically in dire circumstances.
still learning
Senior Master
Hello, Kathy Long is right on...for most women, these strikes to the eyes,thoat, and groin are there best chances for escaping.
Most people will be attack quickly and at the time you least expected. These defense's also will work for Men too.
Grappling takes years of training...but these above techniques will work on the ground too. (biting included).
No two situtions will be same...What can we teach people who do not have the time to train in the martial arts? Eyes,windpipe,and groin are tarkets most women can learn in a short time.
Not many people know how about breaking fingers and joints....but fingers are easy to learn if taught correctly.....
Why should martial arts take years to learn...when a few things may work for alot of people? If you were to teach the masses? .................Aloha
Most people will be attack quickly and at the time you least expected. These defense's also will work for Men too.
Grappling takes years of training...but these above techniques will work on the ground too. (biting included).
No two situtions will be same...What can we teach people who do not have the time to train in the martial arts? Eyes,windpipe,and groin are tarkets most women can learn in a short time.
Not many people know how about breaking fingers and joints....but fingers are easy to learn if taught correctly.....
Why should martial arts take years to learn...when a few things may work for alot of people? If you were to teach the masses? .................Aloha
tradrockrat
2nd Black Belt
Well, my .02 cents as a self defense teacher is that she's half right. To ignore ground techniques is ludicrous.
Yes, the woman should work on accuracy and speed when attacking vital points, but please... every criminal that's ever even been to juvie knows to watch out for his groin and eyes when attacking a female. There is a VERY good chance that she may find herself on the ground in a rape attempt or even a mugging. Learning to work out of the guard to blind, bite, gouge, jap something into the eardrum, and crush/ pull out the windpipe is taught in all of my SD classes.
What I really agree with is the mental development and fortitude to commit to violence of action. The amount of violence a person is willing to use is NOT something you can decide while IN the damn fight for your life - you have to KNOW that you are going to maim and even kill if you have to before anything ever happens.
Yes, the woman should work on accuracy and speed when attacking vital points, but please... every criminal that's ever even been to juvie knows to watch out for his groin and eyes when attacking a female. There is a VERY good chance that she may find herself on the ground in a rape attempt or even a mugging. Learning to work out of the guard to blind, bite, gouge, jap something into the eardrum, and crush/ pull out the windpipe is taught in all of my SD classes.
What I really agree with is the mental development and fortitude to commit to violence of action. The amount of violence a person is willing to use is NOT something you can decide while IN the damn fight for your life - you have to KNOW that you are going to maim and even kill if you have to before anything ever happens.
ThatWasAKick
White Belt
I had one problem with Kathy's article, on the lines of what tradrockrat said - that men protect sensitive areas. But what worries me about stressing groin kicks to women is that we (women) think that if you kick a man he'll drop. Sexual predators are often excited by pain, and will respond forcefully. If the woman isn't prepped to strike and keep on striking then she's in trouble.
Like tradrockrat said... it's about commitment.
I'd just like to say, too, that women must have solid ground skills. In our black belt training we have the men simulate a rape attack (ripping their clothes off, face punches, etc.). There is simply no way a guy could spread the knees of one of our gals unless she was knocked out first. The men are exhausted trying.
Like tradrockrat said... it's about commitment.
I'd just like to say, too, that women must have solid ground skills. In our black belt training we have the men simulate a rape attack (ripping their clothes off, face punches, etc.). There is simply no way a guy could spread the knees of one of our gals unless she was knocked out first. The men are exhausted trying.
ThatWasAKick
White Belt
p.s. I practice Kahr-do, myself. 
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