Yes; a self serving act (and which act isn't self serving in some way?) can result in unintended evil. Doesn't the "Cry Wolf" story help us understand that?
Sean
What really is, "Evil"?
- Thread starter Bob Hubbard
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Sean
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
I see what you're saying. To take the boy in the Cry Wolf story as an example. Even though he had a desire to be noticed and important, he had no desire to harm the village.
This would suggest that evil is not defined by culture and perception. What happened to the village was evil, not evil due to perception or cultural bias.
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
We'd all feel much better about that if we weren't damn sure you memorized it from watching Boondock Saints one too many times....
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
A true sociopath will perform an act to create an adrenaline flow for the purposes of simulating emotions they are incapable of having. Knew one that wasn't locked up; scary guy.
I think the best definition of "Evil" is "The opposite of Good." This encompasses everything. Since good is based on your belief system also - it works.
The problem with bringing religion into play is that not everyone shares the same religion. You can't define Evil using a concept that not everyone subscribes to - otherwise everyone who doesn't agree with you is Evil. EVERY religion has their own definition.
Every person also has their own definition. But whatever your belief system tells you to think of as "good"....take the opposite.
The problem with bringing religion into play is that not everyone shares the same religion. You can't define Evil using a concept that not everyone subscribes to - otherwise everyone who doesn't agree with you is Evil. EVERY religion has their own definition.
Every person also has their own definition. But whatever your belief system tells you to think of as "good"....take the opposite.
Shaderon
Master of Arts
Right I see what's being said, evil is malcious harm makes a lot of sense, but once again this is still perception. If the person doing the act is malcious about it, then it's evil, if they don't consider themselves malcious, but rightous, who are we to say it's evil? It might be an act that will help the greater good. Once more who are we to define the greater good?
If all those people that believe that god is omnipotent (not telling you what I believe here just throwning in an "if" for discussion) believe that evil is possible but god is all good.... then that's an oxymoron isn't it?
How can an omnipotent and totally good god allow evil to exist, therefore is anything really evil? is it ALL for the greater good?
*Sits back with popcorn and waits*
opcorn:
If all those people that believe that god is omnipotent (not telling you what I believe here just throwning in an "if" for discussion) believe that evil is possible but god is all good.... then that's an oxymoron isn't it?
How can an omnipotent and totally good god allow evil to exist, therefore is anything really evil? is it ALL for the greater good?
*Sits back with popcorn and waits*
opcorn:
Evil is a label and cultures apply it willy nilly depending on circumstance. No absolute definition of evil exists.
This brings up an interesting thought...I wonder if "evil" as determined by different cultures, is largely defined by the environment in which the culture grew?
This brings up an interesting thought...I wonder if "evil" as determined by different cultures, is largely defined by the environment in which the culture grew?
Following that logic I would have to conclude that water, fire, snow and ice, wind and other natural occurences are evil because of the damage they do and the suffering they cause in some instances, again not due to perception or cultural bias.
And traffic jams. Lots of suffering caused by traffic jams. Most definitely evil.
I think thats a fundamental question thats been asked for ages now. Here is my take on it though... just my view
How can we describe something as being light w/out knowing that darkness exists? Isn't darkness, in essence, abscence of light? Isn't it the same way with goodness/badness? Isn't badness just the abscence of goodness? MBuzzy said it well, I think... I'll be using "badness" and "evil" interchangably...
Now, that leaves humans with a choice of following good or bad. Do we believe that freedom of choice is important? As a soceity, we have (well, for the most part) evolved to the point where marriages are no longer forced. We consider that progress. Women are no longer treated as possessions in our culture, but have the same degree of freedom as men. We perceive this as a good thing. In all civilized countries slavery is mostly non-existant. This is a good thing. So, can we say that increasing freedom and reducing "bondage" is good? Doesn't that apply to all of humanity? Would it be "good" for God to enslave us and force us to only follow the "good"? Is that what love is about? How can there be love w/out the choice to not love? How can there be goodness w/out the choice to follow badness?
Ask your average child if they would prefer having a puppy or a robot. Most would say puppy. Those choosing a robot would eventually grow tired of it and sit it in a corner. A puppy can conceivably bite you, can attack other children, can run away, and eventually dies. However, in those years you spend with them, you can experience such love, companionship and happiness too... Robots do just one thing. Obey what you ask them to do. It will never love you, because it has no choice for love. for me, I'd prefer a puppy
popcorn indeed LOL
Shaderon
Master of Arts
Nice answer and certainly a very well thought out one.
popcorn mate? *hands it over*
Right we have freedom of choice, we decide what is good and what is evil. To me that means each individual person decides what is good and what is evil to them. One mans meat is another man's poisen. But we must agree on some lines that we don't cross which mean we can all get on together well without hurting each other which means we have to have an "official" meaning for evil and bad (which I believe are serperate things close in meaning but seperate). This meaning has fuzzy edges though.
opcorn:
popcorn mate? *hands it over*
Right we have freedom of choice, we decide what is good and what is evil. To me that means each individual person decides what is good and what is evil to them. One mans meat is another man's poisen. But we must agree on some lines that we don't cross which mean we can all get on together well without hurting each other which means we have to have an "official" meaning for evil and bad (which I believe are serperate things close in meaning but seperate). This meaning has fuzzy edges though.
opcorn:
zDom
Senior Master
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I think thats a fundamental question thats been asked for ages now. Here is my take on it though... just my view
How can we describe something as being light w/out knowing that darkness exists? Isn't darkness, in essence, abscence of light? Isn't it the same way with goodness/badness? Isn't badness just the abscence of goodness? MBuzzy said it well, I think... I'll be using "badness" and "evil" interchangably...
Now, that leaves humans with a choice of following good or bad. Do we believe that freedom of choice is important? As a soceity, we have (well, for the most part) evolved to the point where marriages are no longer forced. We consider that progress. Women are no longer treated as possessions in our culture, but have the same degree of freedom as men. We perceive this as a good thing. In all civilized countries slavery is mostly non-existant. This is a good thing. So, can we say that increasing freedom and reducing "bondage" is good? Doesn't that apply to all of humanity? Would it be "good" for God to enslave us and force us to only follow the "good"? Is that what love is about? How can there be love w/out the choice to not love? How can there be goodness w/out the choice to follow badness?
Ask your average child if they would prefer having a puppy or a robot. Most would say puppy. Those choosing a robot would eventually grow tired of it and sit it in a corner. A puppy can conceivably bite you, can attack other children, can run away, and eventually dies. However, in those years you spend with them, you can experience such love, companionship and happiness too... Robots do just one thing. Obey what you ask them to do. It will never love you, because it has no choice for love. for me, I'd prefer a puppy
popcorn indeed LOL
Yep. It call comes down to free will. Evil is a ... um ... necessary evil
Again I would say that the human interaction with the environment has either a positive or negative effect on the outcome of the event in question.
Sean
How can one person honestly appraise another person's definition of evil? What objective criteria would you use to do this?
I, personally, do not think that it is possible to fairly judge one definition over another. There are just too many contradictions.
IMHO, those contradictions spell out the relative nature of evil.
Think about it, given time, humans can rationalize anything, even destroying ourselves.
I, personally, do not think that it is possible to fairly judge one definition over another. There are just too many contradictions.
IMHO, those contradictions spell out the relative nature of evil.
Think about it, given time, humans can rationalize anything, even destroying ourselves.
Is that really such a bad thing? LOL
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
That's a good point. Natural events are natural events. They are neither good nor evil. As I stated in an earlier post, I think evil involves some level of desire or attachment. Personally, I do not think the boy who cried wolf was evil, just an attention seeking idiot who did not consider the consequences. He did seek to harm the village.
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
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So..if there is no definition of evil. Is there a distinction between "right" and "wrong"?
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
THis one is even more subjective than good and evil. Right and wrong can be evaluated, defined if you like, on a person to person basis. Cultural training gives broad fields of what is right and wrong but it is left to individuals to interpret.
Yes there are laws that define right and wrong for a society, but many laws start from a position of somebody not liking something, others define more obvious wrongdoings, like murder. Still there are people who commit murder who do not consider it wrong. Perhaps they are just evil?
