Respecting Other People's Beliefs

[Hong Kong Pooey]

I was reading this other thread and it got me wondering about certain things, but I didn't want to be accused of hijacking it so thought I'd start a new one with my own musings/questions.

This is the thread I am referring to:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/85-philosophy-spirituality-arts/115235-did-man-make-god.html

It was the usual complaints about snide, sneering remarks made by the non-believers towards the faithful, and the complaints of self-righteous, sanctimony coming from the believers towards the infidels that got me thinking.

The nub of my question is, both on this forum and in wider society, am I really supposed to respect other people's beliefs?

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely respect other people's RIGHT to believe what they like as any modern-day right-thinking individual should, but I definitely have difficulty respecting some of the things that some people choose to believe.

My personal suspicion is that in reality not many people actually do respect the beliefs of other religions/groups/philosophies etc.

Do you Christians out there actually respect the beliefs of Mormons, for example? Or do you sneer and make snide remarks when discussing them with your fellow Christians?

Does anybody else really respect what Scientologists believe?

If I say I believe in the tooth fairy is everyone else bound to pretend they respect my belief?

Just as an example, in my opinion the Christian bible contains a fair degree of nonsense and feel I should be able to say so without being told that I can't because I'm somehow disrespecting somebody.

I also don't believe that people have the right not to be offended, but that's a whole other topic.

I'm genuinely interested to hear the thoughts of others on this whatever their religious persuasion, but if I've managed to offend any Christians already by using them in my examples then to quote the late, great Bill Hicks: "Forgive me"

 

[Buka]

I sometimes get yelled at for this point of view, but to me, "respect" means manners. I don't care what a student of mine might have in his heart towards another, or towards a belief, concept or whatever. What I do care about is his/her actions towards said same. In Martial Arts, respect is everything. And by actions, I mean all of them. Smirks, making a face, rolling of eyes, are all disrespectful. Unless you are among friends who accept them in good spirit.

I don't care any more (or less) of someone's religion, Martial Art etc than I care what their favorite ice cream flavor is. I think you hit the nail on the head with - "
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely respect other people's RIGHT to believe what they like as any modern-day right-thinking individual should, but I definitely have difficulty respecting some of the things that some people choose to believe."

Their "right" to believe what they want is all that counts. As long as your actions reflect your thinking, all is jake as far as I'm concerned.

And the quote "The key to success is honesty (or sincerity). Once you can fake that, you're in" applies perfectly IMO.

 

[K-man]

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely respect other people's RIGHT to believe what they like as any modern-day right-thinking individual should, but I definitely have difficulty respecting some of the things that some people choose to believe.

I agree whole heartedly with the first sentiment and I am happy to respect most things that people believe even if it is patently obvious that what they believe is not actually factual, as long as they don't push their view on others.

Does anybody else really respect what Scientologists believe?

When a writer of science fiction comes up with a 'religion' like that ... no.

If I say I believe in the tooth fairy is everyone else bound to pretend they respect my belief?

I think that the tooth fairy, like other similar stories using imagination and make believe, have their place in a culture. If a person continues to believe those stories into adulthood I would suggest they have issues. Mind you, my children all had an irrational belief in Father Christmas for many years but I think they may have had their own interests as a priority.

Just as an example, in my opinion the Christian bible contains a fair degree of nonsense and feel I should be able to say so without being told that I can't because I'm somehow disrespecting somebody.

I don't believe it is nonsense in the conventional use of the word. I don't believe the Bible is literal truth for many reasons, but to tell a Christian the Bible is nonsense, to me, is disrespectful. Same for the Koran.

I also don't believe that people have the right not to be offended, but that's a whole other topic.

And this is a triple negative. Wow! :hmm:

I am assuming you mean people shouldn't be offended if someone questions their belief. Depending on the way the question is raised, I would agree. However, don't be surprised if the reaction is right back in your face if the person is a fundamentalist.
:asian:

 

[ballen0351]

I think when you make a statement "the Christian Bible has a fair amount of nonsense" you going to come off poorly to Christians and they are going to put up their guard. It comes off confrontational. I understand your point and don't believe your being confrontational but it does come off like that.

It's a good topic I think you don't need to "respect" others opinions because sometimes people's opinions are just wrong. However we should be civil when discussing differences. I know I'm guilty of forgetting that I'd like to work on that.

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

I think that the tooth fairy, like other similar stories using imagination and make believe, have their place in a culture. If a person continues to believe those stories into adulthood I would suggest they have issues. Mind you, my children all had an irrational belief in Father Christmas for many years but I think they may have had their own interests as a priority.

lol

I don't believe it is nonsense in the conventional use of the word. I don't believe the Bible is literal truth for many reasons, but to tell a Christian the Bible is nonsense, to me, is disrespectful. Same for the Koran.

Just to clarify I didn't say it's all nonsense, rather that it contains a fair degree of nonsense - and that's my belief :wink1:

And this is a triple negative. Wow! :hmm:

I am assuming you mean people shouldn't be offended if someone questions their belief. Depending on the way the question is raised, I would agree. However, don't be surprised if the reaction is right back in your face if the person is a fundamentalist.
:asian:[/QUOTE]

Not really, I mean that none of us has the right not to be offended.

PS Apologies for the crappy quoting skills!

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

I think when you make a statement "the Christian Bible has a fair amount of nonsense" you going to come off poorly to Christians and they are going to put up their guard. It comes off confrontational. I understand your point and don't believe your being confrontational but it does come off like that.

It's a good topic I think you don't need to "respect" others opinions because sometimes people's opinions are just wrong. However we should be civil when discussing differences. I know I'm guilty of forgetting that I'd like to work on that.

Very true sir! We should all strive to be civil, whatever our differences (and hard though it may be sometimes!)

 

[jks9199]

There's plenty of room to disagree with someone and not be an *** or a jerk about it. "The Bible has a fair degree of nonsense"... "Imaginary Sky Friend"... "Fairy tales"... These are all rather off putting ways to address someone else's beliefs. "There's a lot in the Bible that is self contradicting or just doesn't make much sense and I can't agree with it." Rather less insulting, no? And believers do just as much harm with how they phrase things or with their intolerance or refusal to accept that someone won't believe. I like some of that to my wife's view of sweet potatoes. She thinks they're vile. Doesn't matter who made them, and she's not going to change her mind. If you force her to try your own special version... she's not going to like it. You're not going to win her over. And forcing my belief down an atheist's throat with a "if you'd only try, you'd believe!" isn't going to go down any better.

As I said elsewhere: I believe because, when I look at the world and universe around me, I can't help but believe that Someone had a hand in shaping it, and I believe that Someone has actively shaped the universe, while still leaving Man with free will to choose to believe, to choose to abide by His rules... or not.

 

[hoshin1600]

its funny you bring this up because i was just talking about this exact thing at my family july 4th cook out yesterday. my opinion is that people will disrespect you and say stupid stuff even be mean and nasty and start wars over this stuff. why do you care?
story tells us the day the christian church was started a sermon was given and some people mocked, some people laughed, some people didnt understand but some...some people belived, that is who the sermon was looking for. now in the story they dont say that after the sermon they tried to change the mockers and laughers or try to undo the perplexed. they left them as they were!!!
if you want to belive in the tooth fairy thats fine. expect that people are going to make fun of you and move on with your life. if your a mormon you have to expect doors to be slamed in you face. its just par for the course.
Daniel san, walk on one side of the street , ok walk on other side of street, ok,, walk in middle of street, squish like bug ,understand?
the problem to me is not so much in respecting others beliefs but more about being offended.. this part really gets me. because to me you have no right to be offended. suck it up and stop being so sensitive and trying to be the politicaly correct police. like it or not as much as you are getting offended you are offending others as well, without even knowing it.
,
,
,
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ok... ok that was close... i almost went on a rant about things that offend me about people that get offended.

 

[donald1]

It would be nice if more people showed respect but a lot of people don't think about the other side. It could be lack of concerns. If someone cared mainly about them self it Is likely they might not care about the other, some people only see one side of something (in my opinion in order to truly disagree with something its better to understand the other side of the argument so you know what you're disagreeing with) and if someone doesn't know why they disagree with something they might not think otherwise. Or it could simply be in the way a person was raised, if someone was raised acting like that the chances are usually unlikely
I like to keep a good Christian faith, follow the rules, do what's right, have faith, pray. I don't know much about Mormon only it is a religion. It's rude to put someone's beliefs down and also even then wouldn't know how if don't know what part I'm disagreeing there is no
argument
For the tooth fairy same answer, I don't know much of it but if you believe in the tooth fairy that is your beliefs. Regardless of what I or someone else believes that is your belief and should be shown respect. When people don't show respect it could be doubt or insecurity in their own beliefs

 

[RTKDCMB]

When people don't show respect it could be doubt or insecurity in their own beliefs

Or poorly developed people skills.

 

[ballen0351]

Or poorly developed people skills.

Or some beliefs just dont deserve respect.

 

[jks9199]

Or some beliefs just dont deserve respect.

But does the person who holds the belief merit respect?

 

[RTKDCMB]

Or some beliefs just dont deserve respect.

But does the person who holds the belief merit respect?

That depends on the belief, if someone believes in child sacrifice/murder, for example, then no.

 

[ballen0351]

But does the person who holds the belief merit respect?

Youth Views and Issues

Depends on the belief do these guys deserve respect?

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

its funny you bring this up because i was just talking about this exact thing at my family july 4th cook out yesterday. my opinion is that people will disrespect you and say stupid stuff even be mean and nasty and start wars over this stuff. why do you care?
story tells us the day the christian church was started a sermon was given and some people mocked, some people laughed, some people didnt understand but some...some people belived, that is who the sermon was looking for. now in the story they dont say that after the sermon they tried to change the mockers and laughers or try to undo the perplexed. they left them as they were!!!
if you want to belive in the tooth fairy thats fine. expect that people are going to make fun of you and move on with your life. if your a mormon you have to expect doors to be slamed in you face. its just par for the course.
Daniel san, walk on one side of the street , ok walk on other side of street, ok,, walk in middle of street, squish like bug ,understand?
the problem to me is not so much in respecting others beliefs but more about being offended.. this part really gets me. because to me you have no right to be offended. suck it up and stop being so sensitive and trying to be the politicaly correct police. like it or not as much as you are getting offended you are offending others as well, without even knowing it.
,
,
,
,'
ok... ok that was close... i almost went on a rant about things that offend me about people that get offended.

I like your style sir!

I'd disagree slightly in that I do believe people have the right to be offended on religious grounds (or any other reason I suppose), but not the right to censor or take punitive action against the offender

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

There's plenty of room to disagree with someone and not be an *** or a jerk about it. "The Bible has a fair degree of nonsense"... "Imaginary Sky Friend"... "Fairy tales"... These are all rather off putting ways to address someone else's beliefs. "There's a lot in the Bible that is self contradicting or just doesn't make much sense and I can't agree with it." Rather less insulting, no? And believers do just as much harm with how they phrase things or with their intolerance or refusal to accept that someone won't believe. I like some of that to my wife's view of sweet potatoes. She thinks they're vile. Doesn't matter who made them, and she's not going to change her mind. If you force her to try your own special version... she's not going to like it. You're not going to win her over. And forcing my belief down an atheist's throat with a "if you'd only try, you'd believe!" isn't going to go down any better.

As I said elsewhere: I believe because, when I look at the world and universe around me, I can't help but believe that Someone had a hand in shaping it, and I believe that Someone has actively shaped the universe, while still leaving Man with free will to choose to believe, to choose to abide by His rules... or not.

I do very much agree with your point that I've highlighted in bold, but I feel the need to point out that it's very difficult for an atheist or agnostic to discuss the topic of religion, beliefs etc without using some of the words and phrases that believers seem to find insulting or disrespectful, such as: imaginary, made up, illogical, nonsense, fairy stories, ludicrous, ridiculous etc

For example if an atheist's position is that there is no god, and He only exists in other people's imagination, then imaginary is a totally appropriate word to use to describe Him.

It doesn't necessarily mean they are trying to disrespect, offend or insult anybody by referring to Him as imaginary, it's just an unemotional statement of the truth as they see it.

I do concede however that when discussing these matters non-believers tend to assume an intellectual superiority because we've based our views on evidence, facts & reason instead of just taking somebody else's word for it or believing what was written in a particular book, which must be infuriating! On the flip side though believers tend to assume a moral superiority because they "know" the "truth" which can be equally infuriating.

These are of course generalizations and don't apply to everybody, but I believe the points are valid.

Back to your original point though, if an atheist were to say there is no god, therefore the bible is all a load of rubbish, therefore all Christian's are idiots for believing it then you could rightfully say that person is a jerk or an ***.

And I'd agree with you!

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

It would be nice if more people showed respect but a lot of people don't think about the other side. It could be lack of concerns. If someone cared mainly about them self it Is likely they might not care about the other, some people only see one side of something (in my opinion in order to truly disagree with something its better to understand the other side of the argument so you know what you're disagreeing with) and if someone doesn't know why they disagree with something they might not think otherwise. Or it could simply be in the way a person was raised, if someone was raised acting like that the chances are usually unlikely
I like to keep a good Christian faith, follow the rules, do what's right, have faith, pray. I don't know much about Mormon only it is a religion. It's rude to put someone's beliefs down and also even then wouldn't know how if don't know what part I'm disagreeing there is no
argument
For the tooth fairy same answer, I don't know much of it but if you believe in the tooth fairy that is your beliefs. Regardless of what I or someone else believes that is your belief and should be shown respect. When people don't show respect it could be doubt or insecurity in their own beliefs

Wow! You must be a very nice man Donald (far nicer than me) if you could take seriously a grown man (or woman) who professed to believe in the tooth fairy!

You do know she's not real, right?

Seriously though, I do respect your general approach and attitude if your actions in real life reflect the sentiments of your post.

 

[jks9199]

I do concede however that when discussing these matters non-believers tend to assume an intellectual superiority because we've based our views on evidence, facts & reason instead of just taking somebody else's word for it or believing what was written in a particular book, which must be infuriating! On the flip side though believers tend to assume a moral superiority because they "know" the "truth" which can be equally infuriating.

These are of course generalizations and don't apply to everybody, but I believe the points are valid.

Back to your original point though, if an atheist were to say there is no god, therefore the bible is all a load of rubbish, therefore all Christian's are idiots for believing it then you could rightfully say that person is a jerk or an ***.

And I'd agree with you!

But many of us who do believe DO base our belief on facts and reason. Yes, there certainly is an ultimate leap of faith required -- but, in all honesty, atheists are making a similar leap at some point when they say that it's just random or that the universe just happened. One of the proofs of God's existence is called the First Cause or Uncaused Cause. In brief, if we follow events down the chain, each is caused by something previous -- but at some point, we reach a point where we can't attribute a cause. For momentary convenience, let's just jump all the way back to the big bang: what set it off? Another argument is that there is so much that has to go right to reach our current universe, something had to steer it. As I said elsewhere, I believe in a God who ordered the universe, and set it to work by rules that we can discern, understand, and use. But I can't look down the chain, and accept that it was nothing but chance.

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

But many of us who do believe DO base our belief on facts and reason. Yes, there certainly is an ultimate leap of faith required -- but, in all honesty, atheists are making a similar leap at some point when they say that it's just random or that the universe just happened. One of the proofs of God's existence is called the First Cause or Uncaused Cause. In brief, if we follow events down the chain, each is caused by something previous -- but at some point, we reach a point where we can't attribute a cause. For momentary convenience, let's just jump all the way back to the big bang: what set it off? Another argument is that there is so much that has to go right to reach our current universe, something had to steer it. As I said elsewhere, I believe in a God who ordered the universe, and set it to work by rules that we can discern, understand, and use. But I can't look down the chain, and accept that it was nothing but chance.

And I respect your right to believe that sir!

Just to be clear when I said "we've based our views on evidence, facts & reason instead of just taking somebody else's word for it or believing what was written in a particular book" I wasn't stating it as a matter of fact, rather putting into words the train of thought that I believe leads to the intellectually superior attitude shown by non-believers sometimes.

It is of course completely unfair and inaccurate to presume that all people who follow a religion or believe in a god (or gods) have not chosen to do so even after looking at the facts and evidence relating to the big questions, and using their reasoning to formulate their beliefs.

 

[K-man]

Youth Views and Issues

Depends on the belief do these guys deserve respect?

How do they get away with that?