What makes a good TKD School?

[Bob Hubbard]

We've heard the hype "look for all the tropheys" and the catcalls, sour grapes, lineage and politics, but what really makes a good TKD school?

What should I as a potential student look for?
How about looking for my kids?
What advice would you as an experienced TKD practitioner give to the seeker?

 

[Jonathan Randall]

We've heard the hype "look for all the tropheys" and the catcalls, sour grapes, lineage and politics, but what really makes a good TKD school?

What should I as a potential student look for?
How about looking for my kids?
What advice would you as an experienced TKD practitioner give to the seeker?

Let's start first with what, IMHO, to avoid:

Schools with:
1. 18-24 Month Black Belts
2. 5-6 year old black belts
3. Large numbers of belt colours with frequent tests (new colour every six weeks!)
4. BLACK BELT CLUBS!!!

What to look for:
1. Black belt requires 3-5 years of serious study at the Dojang
2. Forms are sharp, crisp, and the people aren't standing up while doing them. Posture is good, the wrist is properly aligned during punching (I saw a McDojang Red belt/black belt test where students did reverse punches with their wrists obviously bent in a way to cause serious injury - to themselves), and the practioners BREATHE while doing the form.
3. Kukkiwon certification (this is nice, but not required. A lot of FINE independents want nothing to do with them).
4. Sparring looks like more than just a game of tag...
5. Who certified the instructor's instructor?
6. There are self-defence techniques taught at the Dojang that don't assume that you are warmed-up and in a sparring stance. Do they consider the possibility that you might be knocked to the ground?
7. For WOMEN. It is nice if the Dojang is able to offer a woman's only self-defence course. Many do, and you'd be surprised by what some of them teach. My traditional (pre-ITF) TKD instructor taught what can only be described as near military combatives with groundwork in his women's SD class.
8. Reputation. Ask around, starting at MT!

Ask TigerWoman. She really seems to know her TKD stuff.

 

[terryl965]

Bob first and formost, don't go to a school where the Master is 20 years old how much experience can he have outside the sport aspect none! Secondly find out if they use joint locks , self defense , one step sparring, do they spar without chest protectors and if they do use them ask if they only complete in Olympic style if so seek another TKD school that is both use point sparring and Olympic sparring. Look for a school that is Kukkiwon certified or IFT, Not just USA Tae Kwon Do. Even though I teach both aspect for my students, your instructor needs to be old enough to talk about the eightees not just, I was born in the mid to late eightees. Your instructor should have common knowledge of the kwans and what each kwan brought to the table and why they came together in the first place.

Terry

 

[arnisador]

The black belts whose age is still counted in single digits is the big flag for me--especially when they must be addressed as 'Sir' by adults.

The larger the school, the more likely the instruction is cookie-cutter and impersonal. Look for a smaller school, and make sure the isntructor knows self-defense! I think it's reasonable to view TKD, like Judo, as a martial sport--but many still view it as a martial art.

The best TKD school I ever knew was a college club at Buffalo State where they mixed TKD and (Western) boxing for a very effective hand-and-foot combination. This was back in the arly 80s (which I remember, by the way!).

 

[mantis]

reminds me when i was like 14 i wanted to enroll in TKD
when i went to talk to the master (8-dan) i saw a whole bunch of trophies as well as awesome pictures, like him laying on swords and somebody breaking a bunch of bricks over the guy. one thing he said that made my parents enroll me was: i teach myself.
and that was so far the best martial arts experience i have had in my life.
other schools use the name of the master and they give u a black belt to teach you. if the black belt is unknowing, how is he going to give you knowledge?

my advise, is enroll for a couple of weeks and try it. see how serious the work out is, how serious they are. and if you wanna look at higher belts like purple or something see if the teacher corrects them or if he just accepts anything from the students even though their moves are pathetic.
the harsher the better.
my 2 cents!

 

[Shu2jack]

Bob first and formost, don't go to a school where the Master is 20 years old how much experience can he have outside the sport aspect none!

Are you referring to 20 year olds who are masters or people in charge of a club who are in their early twenties?

I hope you are referring to 20 year olds who are masters!

 

[terryl965]

Are you referring to 20 year olds who are masters or people in charge of a club who are in their early twenties?

I hope you are referring to 20 year olds who are masters!

I'm referring to 20 year old being a Master of a Art not a 20 year old running a school bidg difference. In my book anyway.
Terry

 

[Gemini]

It's a subjective question, Bob. If a school offers what a potential practitioner is looking for, it's a good school. If a student wants to be a player, many of the things listed here as bad, are in fact, good.

Now if you want to know what is a good school in my opinion. That's a different story.

1. A strong emphasis on discipline and etiquette.
2. A good understanding for the basis of what TKD is and why. Even if they do not share this until later in a students training, they teach with this as a basis for their training.
3. They encompass all that TKD offers and support it. Yes, that includes competition TKD, but far from limited to such.
4. They encourage learning the philosophy of other arts and how/ why TKD differs from them.
5. They promote their students based on individual effort, not time.
6. They put a strong emphasis on building a students confidence and phsyical ability.

I have alot of latitude on other aspects, but not these. This is why I'll never have a school. No one would show up. It's too much like work. They just want to work out, sweat some and go home. "Sell that traditional mumbo-jumbo to someone else."

and because we, being good business men, cater to their wishes, have all sorts of McDojangs to choose from.

God pless you guys that pull it off. I salute you. To maintain a school without sacrificing your principles in no small task.

 

[terryl965]

gemini, I guess that is why my school have never made a profit on any given month. I do not mind putting money out of my pocket to keep the door open, I control my wife and childern training and if I went else where the water down training is not worth the money they ask for. I still spend more at my school but I train those I wish to train and send everybody else packing.

Terry

 

[ajs1976]

1. A strong emphasis on discipline and etiquette.

Can you go into a little more detail on this one.

thanks

 

[Hollywood1340]

What I look for and have is a school with a long term financial goal. One that can see itself in buisness ten years down the road and has a full time professional staff. We say there are two ways to run a school. As a MA school and have no buisness or a buisness that happens to be an MA school. I don't care how good my instructor is, if he is out of buisness in six months it does me no good. I want to know I'll be well taken care of as not only a student, but as an employee.

 

[Gemini]

Can you go into a little more detail on this one.

thanks

Sure. A few examples.
In classes, I see such things as students rolling their eyes, sneering, slouching their shoulders or sighing when given direction. When they think no one is looking, of course. But it's a mind set. They may show discipline, but they don't feel it. It isn't real. It's acting.
I see students giving less than their best effort. To give your partner less than your best is insulting them. When you do things that effect your own training, it's unfortunate. When what you're doing effects a partner, it's unacceptable.
I meet new students all the time, either visiting or at tournaments and such. The very basics of things like bowing and addressing a senior as ma'am or sir seem to be a rarity. Isn't this a basic in most arts?
When you enter or leave the dojang, you bow to the flags.
When you encounter a senior, you bow.
After a match, shaking hands with the opposing coach and bowing.
Win or lose, shaking hands with your opponent and bowing.
Showing up to class on time.
Wearing a uniform that doesn't look like you slept in it.

Things like that are very important to me.

 

[arnisador]

I don't care how good my instructor is, if he is out of buisness in six months it does me no good.

As much as I love the image of the garage instructor with only 3 students, this is an important practical point. I've seen it happen all too often--you find a great instructor, but 5 months later he closes the school down and goes back to working for the Post Office (actual example). Stability matters if you want to make progress. It's an argument in favor of contract schools...unfortunately.

 

[Makalakumu]

And I think its one of the reasons that franchise model of marketing "works" so well with MA. If a school closes down, one doesn't have to go very far to find the exact same thing that one was training in at the other school.

upnorthkyosa

ps - When I say "works" I mean that it markets effectively.

 

[Hollywood1340]

It's like putting kicks before stances. How can I teach effectivly and grow without a good base? We've been at it for 11 years and have seen many come and go. BUT we also can show what others in this thread have been asking for, respect, good technique and what not To many people things it's an Art Vs. Money debate. It's not at all. This is America, if you're good at something, you should make money doing it. Not FOR the money, but it's the by product of being good. We don't have to sell our morals to be able to live comfortably and yet remain true to our arts. It's being a complete Martial Arts School Owner.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

... but what really makes a good TKD school?

What advice would you as an experienced TKD practitioner give to the seeker?

To me it's all about the instructor at the dojang who's running the show, and training the students in this MA. If he or she is mature, well qualified, skilled and knowledgeable about the art then that is what I would be looking for. IMHO, most rookies looking to start some MA training are not cognizant of what to look for when searching for an MA school and a TKD dojang, but after you've been a practitioner for a while you really wise up.

I like to go visit other schools in my area just to size up what type of MA instruction they're dispensing. That's when one sees the good, the really good and also the bad and the really terrible... :asian:

 

[KingofSpades]

Well I would say it depends on the age and attitude of the instructer or instructers. In my school we have a 50 year old Military 3rd degree black belt, he is very focused on disipline and getting things right the 1st time. That is what signifyes a good instructer to me. Emphasis on disipline and none of the watered down TDK kiddie stuff.

 

[bushi jon]

Okay I can not resist. The answer to the question is one that teaches Kenpo Just kidding NUMBER ONE QUESTION> how long have you been teaching and who did you learn from

 

[Gemini]

Okay I can not resist. The answer to the question is one that teaches Kenpo

:rofl: Good one!

 

[FearlessFreep]

How about 'honesty'?

If they are just in it for the tournaments and trophies, they should not be telling you that what you are learning is good for personal self defense. No shame in sport competition, just be honest in your intentions.