What is a martial art?

CNida

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I was sitting here in deep meditation (boring day at work), and started to ask myself what exactly a martial art is.

We've all heard it before, or a variation of it: It's a self defense tool. It's a weapon that can be used, like a blade or a firearm. It's a philosophical way of life that transcends physical definition. Depending on your walk of life, a martial art can be many things.

My question is a bit more basic than that, and I look forward to some well thought out and intelligent conversation.

To you, reading this, whoever you are or whatever form you practice: what are the requirements for something to be labelled a martial art?

Among many, boxing is not considered a "martial art". Neither is wrestling of any kind. Anything that generally gets its attention primarily as a sport is not typically considered a martial art.

I am curious to see what everyone thinks.


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Blindside

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My definition:
An art or system based on or historically based on warfare or physical conflict.

I'll even let those performance arts of wushu, XMA, and like into the definition.

Oh and things such as flying a fighter plane, military logistics, and lessons in combat leadership would also fall into that definition.
 
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CNida

CNida

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My definition:
An art or system based on or historically based on warfare or physical conflict.

I'll even let those performance arts of wushu, XMA, and like into the definition.

Oh and things such as flying a fighter plane, military logistics, and lessons in combat leadership would also fall into that definition.

What about Military Intelligence, then? ;)


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Chris Parker

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I was sitting here in deep meditation (boring day at work), and started to ask myself what exactly a martial art is.

We've all heard it before, or a variation of it: It's a self defense tool. It's a weapon that can be used, like a blade or a firearm. It's a philosophical way of life that transcends physical definition. Depending on your walk of life, a martial art can be many things.

My question is a bit more basic than that, and I look forward to some well thought out and intelligent conversation.

To you, reading this, whoever you are or whatever form you practice: what are the requirements for something to be labelled a martial art?

Among many, boxing is not considered a "martial art". Neither is wrestling of any kind. Anything that generally gets its attention primarily as a sport is not typically considered a martial art.

I am curious to see what everyone thinks.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

A martial art is a codified, systematized approach to combative situations, based on congruent principles and concepts, geared towards one context or another. Some are geared towards sports (being a "sport" in no way removes something from being a martial art), others are geared towards a historical setting, perhaps a battlefield or similar, and so on. But, of course, with something so broad, it's often easier to look at what it's not, rather than try to confine and define what it "is", as that can vary in large and small ways from one approach to another... as noted, sports can be martial arts, martial arts aren't necessarily sports, and sports aren't necessarily martial arts.

So, what is it not? Well, it's not self defence, although many can be used in that context (to a degree), it's not a weapon, although weapons can be involved, it's not a "philosophical way of life that transcends physical definition", it's a physical expression of a philosophy (collection of beliefs and values), it is only defined by physical definition. What else is it not? A random collection of techniques with no basis (no congruent approach), in other words, simply putting together "what works", based on "this is a good throw, this is a fancy kick, these are punches", with nothing connecting them, is not a martial art. It's a random collection of techniques with no basis.
 

lklawson

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A martial art is a codified, systematized approach to combative situations, based on congruent principles and concepts, geared towards one context or another. Some are geared towards sports (being a "sport" in no way removes something from being a martial art), others are geared towards a historical setting, perhaps a battlefield or similar, and so on. But, of course, with something so broad, it's often easier to look at what it's not, rather than try to confine and define what it "is", as that can vary in large and small ways from one approach to another... as noted, sports can be martial arts, martial arts aren't necessarily sports, and sports aren't necessarily martial arts.

So, what is it not? Well, it's not self defence, although many can be used in that context (to a degree), it's not a weapon, although weapons can be involved, it's not a "philosophical way of life that transcends physical definition", it's a physical expression of a philosophy (collection of beliefs and values), it is only defined by physical definition. What else is it not? A random collection of techniques with no basis (no congruent approach),
I agree with pretty much everything to this point. Some very minor variations, but, pretty much, spot on.

in other words, simply putting together "what works", based on "this is a good throw, this is a fancy kick, these are punches", with nothing connecting them, is not a martial art. It's a random collection of techniques with no basis.
Actually, I disagree with this. "What works" is what connects the techniques into a coherent framework. Of course, it would generally be, "what works in the context of how the art evolved." What I mean is that just because a Standing Chancery works in the context of historic boxing doesn't mean that it fits necessarily in the context of Bowie Knife fighting. Further, just because a given technique, such as a Wrist Articulated Tip Slash works in, say, Dueling Saber, doesn't necessarily mean it fits in the context of Military/Heavy Saber (because it doesn't).

What most people seem to miss is that every martial art (or "martial sport" for those who want to segregate them) developed in its own context. I've written about this before so I'll keep it abbreviated, but even in arts that seem to be very closely related, such as knife arts, there exist a seemingly infinite number of variables that can skew an expression of an art (what "works") in a direction that is so different from another expression that the end results of the two are completely inappropriate for eachother's environment. On example is clothing. If a knife art evolves in an environment where heavy clothing is the norm then slashes will tend to be deemphasized in favor of heavy thrusts. Thus if art A evolves with heavy clothing and art B evolves with light clothing, transplanting B into A's environment will make suboptimal or even "ineffective" in that context.

And it gets worse when you start swapping arts which have little to no points of commonality. Judo would probably be completely inappropriate for the martial system of 17th Century Spanish Conquistadors which featured steel armor, swords, firearms, and mounted combat.

Every martial art evolved within its own context.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

lklawson

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Among many, boxing is not considered a "martial art". Neither is wrestling of any kind. Anything that generally gets its attention primarily as a sport is not typically considered a martial art.
You mean like Judo?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

Chris Parker

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Hi Kirk,

Actually, I disagree with this. "What works" is what connects the techniques into a coherent framework. Of course, it would generally be, "what works in the context of how the art evolved." What I mean is that just because a Standing Chancery works in the context of historic boxing doesn't mean that it fits necessarily in the context of Bowie Knife fighting. Further, just because a given technique, such as a Wrist Articulated Tip Slash works in, say, Dueling Saber, doesn't necessarily mean it fits in the context of Military/Heavy Saber (because it doesn't).

I'm not so sure you disagree with me, my friend! What you're referring to as a "coherent framework" is what I was referring to as a "congruent approach". There's a huge difference between recognizing, or integrating matching, or complimentary arts/methods/approaches, and the idea of creating a mish-mash frankenstein's monster of a "system" based on thinking that techniques are the important thing, despite not learning anything about fitting them together. In other words, MMA is a coherent framework, which draws from a range of disciplines, whereas what Ashida Kim passes off is just ridiculous.

What most people seem to miss is that every martial art (or "martial sport" for those who want to segregate them) developed in its own context. I've written about this before so I'll keep it abbreviated, but even in arts that seem to be very closely related, such as knife arts, there exist a seemingly infinite number of variables that can skew an expression of an art (what "works") in a direction that is so different from another expression that the end results of the two are completely inappropriate for eachother's environment. On example is clothing. If a knife art evolves in an environment where heavy clothing is the norm then slashes will tend to be deemphasized in favor of heavy thrusts. Thus if art A evolves with heavy clothing and art B evolves with light clothing, transplanting B into A's environment will make suboptimal or even "ineffective" in that context.

And it gets worse when you start swapping arts which have little to no points of commonality. Judo would probably be completely inappropriate for the martial system of 17th Century Spanish Conquistadors which featured steel armor, swords, firearms, and mounted combat.

Every martial art evolved within its own context.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Pretty much exactly what I was getting at....

Or, to put it another way:
"I agree with pretty much everything to this point. Some very minor variations, but, pretty much, spot on."
 

Daniel Sullivan

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I was sitting here in deep meditation (boring day at work), and started to ask myself what exactly a martial art is.

We've all heard it before, or a variation of it: It's a self defense tool. It's a weapon that can be used, like a blade or a firearm. It's a philosophical way of life that transcends physical definition. Depending on your walk of life, a martial art can be many things.

My question is a bit more basic than that, and I look forward to some well thought out and intelligent conversation.

To you, reading this, whoever you are or whatever form you practice: what are the requirements for something to be labelled a martial art?

Among many, boxing is not considered a "martial art". Neither is wrestling of any kind. Anything that generally gets its attention primarily as a sport is not typically considered a martial art.

I am curious to see what everyone thinks.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous
The answer will vary depending upon who you ask. The term is used very broadly, so most, if not all, of those answers will be "correct" from their different perspectives.

The term means, literally, war sciences. How most of what you see fits that definition depends greatly on how you use the term. Most "martial arts" are taught to civilians for use in a civilian context, but at this point in time, martial arts is synonomous with fighting systems. Chris' answer is excellent, probably the best I've seen to this question.

Boxing, fencing, wrestling, mma, and other forms of tournament fighting I personally would include, though not insist upon. In the case of fencing (USFA/FIE, that is), most fencers do not consider it a martial art, though it has as much or more value in that area than other arts that are commonly considered "martial."

As far as "sport" goes, the term literally means leisure (comes from desport), though it is used mostly in the context of athletics. So any MA can be 'sport' while still being a martial art.

What qualifies as a martial art is usually less divisive than what qualifies as self defense. The topic of self defense vs. sport is prolific on this and other MA sites.
 

jks9199

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A painting of Mars? ;)
How about Bob's tank photos? ;)

More seriously, I think Kirk & Chris have a workable definition. A system of combat tied together around common principles and approaches. It can be expressed as a sport, or combatives, or pure esthetics. What it's not is some sort of ultimate life modeling tool, any more than football or soccer or baseball is.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Among many, boxing is not considered a "martial art". Neither is wrestling of any kind. Anything that generally gets its attention primarily as a sport is not typically considered a martial art.

I am curious to see what everyone thinks.
To me, the definition of MA is to be able to knock/take your opponent down ASAP. Boxing and wrestling can fit into that definition nicely. If you are looking for health, self-cultivation, inner peace, performance, ... boxing and wrestling may not be what you are looking for.

Many years ago, I heard the following conversation.

A: What's your style?
B: My style is the style that can beat the **** out of you.

His opinion might be too honest but I like his definition.
 

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