What does your system call these stances

[isshinryuronin]

I was scanning through the comments and yours stood out to me, Bill. Just for my clarity and understanding, do you also have a 'kiba' dachi in Issinryu or is this stance referred only referred to as 'shiko' dachi.

In Kyokushin we have both stances that are nearly identical except for the positions of the feet. In Kiba dachi, the feet are parallel. In Shiko dachi the feet are pointing outward (passed 45 degrees) .

Kiba dachi = horse stance = feet parallel, 2 shoulder widths apart approximately.
Shiko dachi = sumo stance = feet pointed outward, 2 shoulder widths apart approximately.

There are both. Kiba dachi (horse stance) is only used for basic drilling and is not as wide, nor are the knees bent as much, as other styles.

Shiko dachi may also be called soto hachi dachi, or "outside eight stance" since the foot position resembles the kanji for number "8." (hachi=8). Again, not as spread or deep as most other styles.
(This can be a problem in kata competition as most Japanese/CMA styles love wide deep stances. I would not enter a kata competition unless there are a couple of Okinawan style judges.)

Zen kutsu dachi is rarely used in empty hand Isshinryu. It can found more often in our weapons forms.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I resemble that remark!!!!

ha ha ha.. everyone gets there someday. I'm looking forward to it. You know how Seniors do dances that they did when they were young? One of my biggest curiosities is wondering if it will be the same for my generation. Soon there will be old break dancers and old ladies twerking ha ha ha..

Just saying. There may be some wild times ahead lol

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I was scanning through the comments and yours stood out to me, Bill. Just for my clarity and understanding, do you also have a 'kiba' dachi in Issinryu or is this stance referred only referred to as 'shiko' dachi.

In Kyokushin we have both stances that are nearly identical except for the positions of the feet. In Kiba dachi, the feet are parallel. In Shiko dachi the feet are pointing outward (passed 45 degrees) .

Kiba dachi = horse stance = feet parallel, 2 shoulder widths apart approximately.
Shiko dachi = sumo stance = feet pointed outward, 2 shoulder widths apart approximately.

Same here. Not as wide, not as deep, same feet in both. We refer to the shiko dachi as a horse stance, though.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There are both. Kiba dachi (horse stance) is only used for basic drilling and is not as wide, nor are the knees bent as much, as other styles.

Shiko dachi may also be called soto hachi dachi, or "outside eight stance" since the foot position resembles the kanji for number "8." (hachi=8). Again, not as spread or deep as most other styles.
(This can be a problem in kata competition as most Japanese/CMA styles love wide deep stances. I would not enter a kata competition unless there are a couple of Okinawan style judges.)

Zen kutsu dachi is rarely used in empty hand Isshinryu. It can found more often in our weapons forms.

We use zen kutsu dachi in kusanku. The last two moves before the twin hammer fists to the flanks, the first is a pushing hands move with feet in zen kutsu dachi, moving into back fist low block in shiko dachi. Most often used in weapons, as you said.

 

[paitingman]

1. Name the system (s) you train in
2. What is the formal name for
- Horse Stance
- Bow Stance / Bow and Arrow Stance


I'm writing about some basic stances and want to share with my readers other names that are used for these stances.

1. Taekwondo (Oh Do Kwan? My first teacher never promoted or claimed a specific Kwan, but answered Oh Do Kwan when I asked him)
2. - Horse Riding Stance
- ApKubi or ApKubiSeogi. Front/Forward Stance --(if stepping or looking backward) Bow Stance

 

[jks9199]

Horse stance typically looks similar to this shape. The reason I say shape because I know there will be variety in how horse stance is done.
View attachment 26978

The bow stance generally takes on this shape. Again it doesn't have to be the exact look.
View attachment 26980

Bando...

The first would be identified as one of the H stances. Probably low.

The second would be called an N stance or front stance, again low or middle depending on weight distribution.

 

[Yokozuna514]

There are both. Kiba dachi (horse stance) is only used for basic drilling and is not as wide, nor are the knees bent as much, as other styles.

Shiko dachi may also be called soto hachi dachi, or "outside eight stance" since the foot position resembles the kanji for number "8." (hachi=8). Again, not as spread or deep as most other styles.
(This can be a problem in kata competition as most Japanese/CMA styles love wide deep stances. I would not enter a kata competition unless there are a couple of Okinawan style judges.)

Zen kutsu dachi is rarely used in empty hand Isshinryu. It can found more often in our weapons forms.

We use zen kutsu dachi in kusanku. The last two moves before the twin hammer fists to the flanks, the first is a pushing hands move with feet in zen kutsu dachi, moving into back fist low block in shiko dachi. Most often used in weapons, as you said.

Osu, thank you for the responses. I've never heard of Shiko dachi as being referred to a soto hachi dachi, so thank you for that. We do use uchi hachi dachi as a transitional stance to yoi dachi so I 'get' the reference.

I have heard that about kata competitions. Kyokushin practitioners are in the same boat. We are not going to win many if any should the judging be predominantly skewed in the interest of wide deep stances. We don't overtly scream our kiais either.

I didn't realize that it is rarely used in Isshinryu. Do you use another stance in its place ?

 

[isshinryuronin]

We are not going to win many if any should the judging be predominantly skewed in the interest of wide deep stances. We don't overtly scream our kiais either.

I didn't realize that it is rarely used in Isshinryu. Do you use another stance in its place ?

I have gotten to the point where I rarely voice a kiai at all. My understanding is that it's a Japanese thing that has mutated for the purpose of theater in competition. We've all seen clips posted here that show some extreme, drawn out, face-turning-purple-kiais... useless, of course, in application. After doing one of those kiai's, you would be so out of breath you couldn't continue to fight! Should be short and explosive.

Shiko dachi = sumo stance

Typically, we go into "low" stances, whether its zen kutsu or shiko dachi, only when executing some sort of grappling or pulling technique, to lower our weight for balance, leverage and power. Most of the time we are in a "stand up" striking stance closer to boxing - feet more under the body

 

[Yokozuna514]

I have gotten to the point where I rarely voice a kiai at all. My understanding is that it's a Japanese thing that has mutated for the purpose of theater in competition. We've all seen clips posted here that show some extreme, drawn out, face-turning-purple-kiais... useless, of course, in application. After doing one of those kiai's, you would be so out of breath you couldn't continue to fight! Should be short and explosive.

Osu, we've all seen it and in some circles that is what is rewarded in competition. Of course if that type of kiai was used during a fight, it would not serve any practical function I can think of.

I do think kiai's are important for various reasons. These are a few off the top of my head:

1) Helps focus power and coordination during tameshiwari. Sure you can still break things if you didn't kiai but I have found that releasing the kiai at the moment of impact is like a fulcrum to complete the break without any seeming injury. Could entirely be just my perspective and I haven't tried to do any serious breaks without a kiai so perhaps my data is not quite empirical.
2) When teaching kids, I sometimes use it as a gauge of their interest and commitment to an exercise. Having a strong response in the kiai's seems to encourage the group to work harder and be more in synch.
3) It's an audible response to being struck or striking so we can see if the timing and implementation of the kiai is being used as it is intended. In the case of being struck, we use a short and explosive kiai to expell the air from the body to help brace for the impact and to make sure muscles are tightened at the moment of impact. In the case of striking, the kiai is also short and explosive but where it is of most benefit is to verify timing with strikes with breathing. If the kiais (breathing) are not synched with strikes that there is something off with the timing.

Typically, we go into "low" stances, whether its zen kutsu or shiko dachi, only when executing some sort of grappling or pulling technique, to lower our weight for balance, leverage and power. Most of the time we are in a "stand up" striking stance closer to boxing - feet more under the body

Very interesting and makes complete sense in that context. Our zen kutsu dachi that we practice is low but not the lowest. We try and keep the front leg thigh parallel to the ground but without lifting the back foot as to have sokto off the ground. Moving in zen kutsu dachi in this manner is a leg building exercise for us that also allows us to practice kihon and renraku.

We rarely use shiko dachi. It is typically used in stretching or as a variation of kiba dachi but the frequency is not that often.

Our 'stand up' striking stance is called kumite dachi simply enough and resembles what you describe as well. We're certainly on chusoku for the most part with balance and movement that allow punching as well as kicking. Of course if it was that simple, everyone would be great at it but the long and the short of it is that it takes time to understand the concept and even more time to be able to implement it in your game.

In any event, thanks for the share.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have gotten to the point where I rarely voice a kiai at all. My understanding is that it's a Japanese thing that has mutated for the purpose of theater in competition. We've all seen clips posted here that show some extreme, drawn out, face-turning-purple-kiais... useless, of course, in application. After doing one of those kiai's, you would be so out of breath you couldn't continue to fight! Should be short and explosive.

This is how I understand making noises when doing forms as well. The noise (wouldn't call it yelling) is to help with breathing. Some students hold their breath so to keep them from doing that the student or practitioner will make a noise which will naturally correct the holding of ones breath.

That yelling that we often see in extreme martial arts is way beyond me. People get into that for some reason.