I'm creating an upcoming Jow Ga Kung Fu Lesson

Gerry Seymour

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Most people who train a martial arts won't do this on a consistent basis. I put it this way. I don't count on it or factor it in anymore and I schedule class training as if they don't train at home, or on their own time.
My approach is to create what I consider a minimum baseline in class (as best I can with the limited amount of time I'm available to them). So there's some fitness and some drilling in class that can also be done outside class. This lets me have an absolute minimum expectation of what they are working on. If they do what I recommend outside class, they'll move at a normal pace. If they do less, they'll progress slowly. If they do more, they'll likely progress more quickly.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Why do you want to teach someone who doesn't want to train at home? For his money?
For me, because I want to teach, and I can help folks progress, even if they choose to progress slowly. I rarely make any money at this. Last place, I let the school keep whatever they were charging students to attend my classes. Before that, I was making about enough to buy the occasional bottle of scotch, once I paid for things I used in training.
 
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JowGaWolf

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How do you solve this problem?
For me it's not a problem that needs solving. The speed at which things are taught are determined by how fast a student leans it. If they only want to know the form then it won't take long. If they want to know how to apply an technique then it will take as long as it will take. In general, the sooner they are willing to accept learning mistakes and a lot of failure, the sooner they will learn the technique and the timing for it. For me and how I teach, the student always determines how long something will take them to learn. My responsibility is to provide an opportunity to train and to be available as much as I can. This isn't one sided for me. The more available I am, the more training I'm also getting.
 
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JowGaWolf

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I don’t make my living by teaching. I teach for two reasons. I learn more by teaching others. I continue the teaching style, and the martial arts style. One is as important as the other. The teaching style is far more difficult to transfer. Many will train, most will quit, a few will excel. That is just the way of things. Despite these realities, I learn and progress in my own practice regardless of the path my students take.
The "I learn more by teaching others" is a big pay off for me. Not everyone has the same strategy for fighting so it gives me an opportunity to see more variations, more tactics, more strategy in which to apply what I know.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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The "I learn more by teaching others" is a big pay off for me. Not everyone has the same strategy for fighting so it gives me an opportunity to see more variations, more tactics, more strategy in which to apply what I know.
Absolutely! I never realized how much one can learn from teaching until I began to teach. I admit, it’s a good feeling to see them progress. My hope is that my best students will be able to beat me handily one day, but they won’t get there by putting less than 100%. I feel like teaching made me a much better student, I work as hard at it as I did 25 years ago, my goal is always to keep going past where my best students gas out. It keeps them striving if the old man isn’t slowing down but they are ready to puke. I make them work hard in class, so much so that they wobble out smiling after. I can’t teach martial arts to people that don’t have the conditioning to keep up, so at least the first half of each class is hardcore calisthenics exercise. I think it weeds out the lazy ones fast.
 
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JowGaWolf

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. I make them work hard in class, so much so that they wobble out smiling after. I can’t teach martial arts to people that don’t have the conditioning to keep up, so at least the first half of each class is hardcore calisthenics exercise.
This is how I teach the first hour of sparring classes. Students really like the feel of working our hard. It also gives me the opportunity to work on my own conditioning. It really difficult to slack off when everyone is working hard. Students are trying to out work my and I'm trying to make that a difficult thing to do by trying to keep up with the younger group. Then the physical challenge of sparring while tired adds another layer.

If anyone wants to know the value of technique, try sparring after an hour of physical demand and do 1 minute rounds against fresh sparring partners.
 

Gerry Seymour

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When you train hip throw with a "short" opponent, you will train horse stance in that period of time.
Are the folks you know regularly doing hip throws on short opponents during their daily lives?

All kidding aside, I'm not sure that's "without them knowing", though. Before my stances became ingrained, I was always well aware what stance I was choosing for a given technique.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Are the folks you know regularly doing hip throws on short opponents during their daily lives?

All kidding aside, I'm not sure that's "without them knowing", though. Before my stances became ingrained, I was always well aware what stance I was choosing for a given technique.
If you train weight with stance/footwork at the same time, you can achieve all 3 by using the same amount of training time. Trying to kill 3 birds with 1 stone is what I like to achieve.

This is why I try to add kick/punch in my daily walking/running.

my-Gon-twist.gif
 
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Gerry Seymour

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If you train weight with stance/footwork at the same time, you can achieve all 3 by using the same amount of training time. Trying to kill 3 birds with 1 stone is what I like to achieve.

This is why I try to add kick/punch in my daily walking/running.

my-Gon-twist.gif
I agree. But I'm still confused by your original "without knowing" comment. If you purposely go into a stance while training with weight, you know you're training that stance.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I agree. But I'm still confused by your original "without knowing" comment. If you purposely go into a stance while training with weight, you know you're training that stance.
The training equipment is so low that I have to drop low to hold it. At that moment, I didn't think about horse stance at all.

If you want to reach an object that's far away from you, you may drop down into bow-arrow stance to reach it. At that moment, you only think about to reach that object. You are not thinking about to get into bow-arrow stance.

When MA stance have been integrated into your daily activities, you are truly on the path of MA training.
 

Old Happy Tiger

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I'm not sure if I commented to you when I first signed up as a member here, but I've have not seen any practitioners around anywhere that practice Jow Ga (Jow Gar) in a long time. Going many.. many years back, I remember that Jow Ga was considered a very dangerous martial art with a one strike / hit mentality that would instantly disable many opponents.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I remember that Jow Ga was considered a very dangerous martial art with a one strike / hit mentality that would instantly disable many opponents.
Many Karate systems emphasize "drop opponent by one punch".

In another thread, when people talk about how to avoid limbs clashing, JowGaWolf and I talk about how to achieve limbs clashing. Sometimes I don't know which approach belong to mainstream and which approach doesn't.
 

Old Happy Tiger

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Many Karate systems emphasize "drop opponent by one punch".

In another thread, when people talk about how to avoid limbs clashing, JowGaWolf and I talk about how to achieve limbs clashing. Sometimes I don't know which approach belong to mainstream and which approach doesn't.
Yes, I agree 100% that some Karate styles practice that. I knew one guy that worked in loss prevention at a retail store and many times when he was trying to detain someone they would start to fight to escape. The guy who worked in loss prevention practiced one style of Japanese Karate (I forget which style) and the only thing he would do is wait and then do a single simple reverse punch and many times would knock out the person that was stealing.. and YES he and his the retail store went to many court cases.

Regards to your comment on limbs clashing, I think that thread was some one who was practicing "point sparring". Back in the day when I was into Kempo we used to block all the time with out arm and leg protection when practicing techniques and a lot of us would have bruised forearms. That is hard style conditioning that many old hard style traditional Martial Arts used to practice that way and I would think many out there still so. Currently, I've be going back to my Yang Tai Chi Chuan training. I know marital arts applications from that form as well. There are many techniques / applications are more towards inward and outward rotational blocks and redirection called deflecting power / boh jing as well as borrowing power / tzeh jing and no bruising when doing either / or...... Not saying "better" just different.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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There are many techniques / applications are more towards inward and outward rotational blocks and redirection called deflecting power / boh jing as well as borrowing power / tzeh jing and no bruising when doing either / or...... Not saying "better" just different.
You are talking about "water" strategy. I'm talking about "metal" strategy. Both are valid. There is wood, fire, earth too.
 

Old Happy Tiger

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You are talking about "water" strategy. I'm talking about "metal" strategy. Both are valid. There is wood, fire, earth too.
No Sir, respectfully I can only relate in what you are talking about in regards to my own training and currently practice about clashing limbs. In what I wrote back to a reply to you, from a Tai Chi Chuan (TaijiQuan) perspective was 100% viable. Elements are compared to the individuals movement (sometimes referenced as the 5 steps) in Tai Chi Chuan. The inward and outward rotational blocks and redirection is power / energy called "Jing". As I wrote, deflecting power / boh jing as well as borrowing power / tzeh jing are common in those internal blocks from a Tai Chi Chuan perspective and there are more Jing's than that. I do know there are other internal Chinese Martial Arts that use 5 elements more in reference to blocks and strikes, XingYi (hsingi) is one of them.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I have a few things I drive depth on as early as possible. I have another body of things I think students need early exposure to, that they'll build on gradually from time to time.
I will start a new student tomorrow. Instead of using depth first approach, I will try the breadth first approach this time.

I think most beginner students may like the breadth first approach better.
 
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