What do you tell people

[ElfTengu]

"Free Tibet!"

With every packet of sun dried goji berries!

 

[EWBell]

Oh I wouldn't go so far as to say that in regard to you as a person or a practicioner.
But regarding the tats it is possibly true. Soke is a very traditional man, and tattoos are still something which is associated with shady people in Japan.

Although noone would give you grief over it, they'd just disapprove. And even then it wouldn't be an issue (I guess) unless you trained long and hard enough that anyone higher up would notice you.

I didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't be welcome in our club.

There are several Genbukan folks who have tattoos, as well as some dojo-cho. I don't think it is that big of a deal to Tanemura Soke as I believe he realizes that different cultures have different ideas. I believe his main concern is that we all become true martial artists.

 

[Bruno@MT]

There are several Genbukan folks who have tattoos, as well as some dojo-cho. I don't think it is that big of a deal to Tanemura Soke as I believe he realizes that different cultures have different ideas. I believe his main concern is that we all become true martial artists.

Indeed. But I have also asked my chief dojo cho, and he says that while Soke indeed realizes different cultures have different ideas, he still holds a traditional opinion (which is to be expected of course). And also I was not mentioning tatoos in general, but names of ryuha or Genbukan etc.

 

[Indagator]

I intend to get the Nin kanji tattooed on my personage at some point, althuogh it would not be in a place where people would ever see it. Probably on my chest area or upper leg.

 

[Bruno@MT]

I've been thinking about something like that myself.
But it won't happen any time soon (if at all). I've only been training for just over 2 years now, and I'd feel like a poser.

Btw it's not like I am making this up (about the tattoo thing in Japan)
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[Cryozombie]

Yes, I know several people who were asked to leave bathhouses because of their Tattoos, and actually, I have a rather... Well, I consider it amusing story about a Sushi restaurant in Michigan and the little old Japanese lady that stopped serving us once I took my hoodie off and she saw my tattoos.

*Shrug*

I'm aware of it, and it doesn't bother me. On a side note, of all the Shihan I know who have seen it the only comment that I got was "That was probably a bad idea because it tells people too much about you" from one.

 

[Bruno@MT]

He was probably right, because the nin kanji is fairly recognizable (assuming it was that one).
Otoh it could be worse. Much worse. I've seen tattoos that read 'baka gaijin' (stupid foreigner). Really . And a woman I know has a Japanese tattoo for which she got the kanji of a vase. I didn't have the heart to tell her it had a kana missing.

 

[jks9199]

He was probably right, because the nin kanji is fairly recognizable (assuming it was that one).
Otoh it could be worse. Much worse. I've seen tattoos that read 'baka gaijin' (stupid foreigner). Really . And a woman I know has a Japanese tattoo for which she got the kanji of a vase. I didn't have the heart to tell her it had a kana missing.

That would be my fear in getting any foreign character as a tattoo. Unless your source is absolutely reliable, and the tattoo artist is able to faithfully recreate the character properly... you never know what you might find yourself advertising. Pure meaninglessness or "Lunch Special #4" is at the pleasant end of what it might say. Though it'd be funny if the "Wisdom" character they got actually read "Fool"...

 

[Bruno@MT]

My sensei has helped one of our students who really wanted to get a kanji tattoo.
He helped him pick the right one for what he wanted it to mean, and then drew it life size on paper as an example for the tattoo artist.

Tattoo artists are (supposed to be) good at putting ink on human bodies. They are not linguists. For the content I would indeed get help for a linguist or a native. I told that women I know she could ask me to help her if she ever wanted another Japanese tattoo.

And there is also the issue that in Japanese culture, there are some things you just don't do.
One pic I saw had a woman with a tattoo that said 'brilliant woman'. Apart form the fact that the wrong kanji was used (brilliant as in 'sparkling' instead of 'genius/smart'), openly bragging about yourself is just not done in Japanese culture at all. Now, I understand that in our culture this is perfectly acceptable self expression, but in that case it is funny that she picked the language of a culture where it is not done, so that she makes a bad impression with the only people who can actually read the tattoo . Or at least they would if it wasn't written wrong.

 

[Supra Vijai]

LOL to the horribly incorrect kanji tatts... I've only got the "Nin" kanji as of now and then it's part of a bigger image. I have other tattoos but they are either in English or Tamil (my native tongue) and none are actually visible unless I take my shirt off. Even with a tshirt, you can barely see the bottom of one and some script on my forearms right up near the elbows. I work in a corporate environment, so can't really have overboard tatts showing. I'm fine with that though because I only get a tattoo if it has a personal meaning to me. Never picked one out of a book and don't plan on starting that practice anytime soon. Bathhouses in Japan might be a problem though so if I ever visit, will make sure to keep a shirt on

Here's the tiger one though

 

[Bruno@MT]

Nice. Did you get the design from care bears
(just kidding)

 

[Supra Vijai]

hahaha it does look like it wants to give you a hug doesn't it? At least it's a hug with malice

 

[Indagator]

I have some pretty big forearm pieces, one that basically wraps around the whole forearm (although it's not full coverage like a sleeve) and I remember a friend's wife, who is a Japanese immigrant, telling me that if I got run over or anything in Japan nobody would call the emergency services because of my tattoos. She said that the immediate assumption would be that I was a criminal and people wouldn't want to be involved.

Guess I'll have to wear long sleeves when I finally get to Japan, then...

 

[DuskB4Dawn]

I have a full sleave tattoo. well almost. I just have to finish abit.
I don't know what all the fuss is about a tattoo being symbolic. none of my tattoos are symbolic.
Im always changing my mind that symbolic isn't good for me.

my left arm Im planning to do is gonna be a japanese style piece. Ive thought about getting siddham script or japanese sanskrit and some buddhist diety but I change religion and stuff all the time I may just stick to the normal

by the way Supra Vijai. I think your tiger tatt is cool. atleast you created it so its 100 percent original. awesome

 

[Supra Vijai]

Thanks, I'd hope it is lol.

By Japanese Sanskrit, I take it you mean Shittan? Shittan (Siddham in Sanskrit) from my understanding is more "seed syllables" rather than an actual alphabet so that should be nice and fun to play with. I'd suggest getting someone with a SOLID understanding of Japan/Japanese to cross check the design before you get it inked on. Sanskrit itself is said to have evolved from an Indo-Iranian language which arrived to what is now India and Pakistan sometime around 1500BC.

In terms of symbolic tattoos, to each their own. I have plenty of friends who have tatts because they look cool. Hell I know lots of people who train MA because they are cool. On the other hand I have friends who get tattoos for special occassions or to commemorate something and train MA because they want the cultural/historical experience. Someone who isn't as likely to change their beliefs at the drop of a hat will (IMO) tend to favour something with meaning (at least to them).

 

[Rayban]

I'm still deciding on whether or not to get one at all. As beautiful as the language is I would want to know how to speak and write it if I was to ink it on my body. I would probably at this stage only get the 'Nin' Kanji because I fully understand and practice it as a part of my life. But conveying a message in another tongue seems a bit redundant to me IMHO.

One other symbol I was contemplating getting was 'infinity'. You can kind of relate that to Nin I guess.

At the end of the day it's a pretty personal thing, so get what you want... Just make sure it means what you want it to.

 

[ElfTengu]

Indeed. But I have also asked my chief dojo cho, and he says that while Soke indeed realizes different cultures have different ideas, he still holds a traditional opinion (which is to be expected of course). And also I was not mentioning tatoos in general, but names of ryuha or Genbukan etc.

But what is a traditional opinion if it only goes back a certain amount of time or number of generations?

Irezumi began with samurai, and some of Tanemura Sensei's ancestors (biologically and martial lineage-wise) will almost certainly have had irezumi.

The unfavourable view of tattoos seems to go back to the proliferation of the yakuza, who themselves only see their tattoos as a link to their nation's martial history.

Japan got rid of its samurai class, has done very little to prevent the Yakuza from gaining the notoriety that they have, and is therefore somewhat responsible for the negative connotations of what was and should still be seen as a fantastic art form with historical significance.

So for today's living Japanese to sneer at tattoos (unless they are bad ones that deserve to be sneered at) is a bit daft and ignorant of their own cultural heritage. The Yakuza chop people up with swords but the Japanese still revere swords, so why be so down on tattoos?

Of course from a ninja point of view, distinguishing marks are a bit stupid, but luckily none of us today consider ourselves to be ninja, and for me personally I just wish I had waited to get a decent tattoo as it is not going to be easy to cover up the faded blur of bruise-coloured pigment that used to be a cool grim reaper on my upper right arm (and was itself a cover up of an evenmore poorly considered image.-

 

[DuskB4Dawn]

yes Siddham alphabet lools very nice. I think that Siddham does have an alphabet of sorts but it gets very complicated. thats why it is hard to translate to Siddham. but maybe a mantra already translated.

even hindu mantra and japanese mantra are the same. japan just pronounce in a different way.
i like the shinto type of buddhism. I have often wondered if ninjutsu used this at one time to carry secret information. kind of a hidden code only a buddhist monk or a ninja could understand.

it would be useful for a shinobi disguised as a monk for intelligence gathering.

i wouldn't put shinobi or nin by itself in kanjl for a tattoo personaly. its to cliché

 

[Chris Parker]

i like the shinto type of buddhism. I have often wondered if ninjutsu used this at one time to carry secret information. kind of a hidden code only a buddhist monk or a ninja could understand.

You may want to clarify this part. Shinto is Shinto, not Buddhism. There is no "shinto type of buddhism". Buddhism is based in personal development, Shinto is based in ancestor and nature worship, for want of a better term (okay, incredibly simplified, I know, I'm going for brevity here....), the two are related only by the real estate they occupy. Otherwise it's like saying you like the Christian type of Aboriginal Dreamtime beliefs, as they're both found in Australia.

As to the second part, not sure what you're refering to as being used to carry secret information here, is it the written languages mentioned earlier in your post? If so, it's possible, yeah. There were other methods as well, though.

 

[Sanke]

Kinda dredging up an old thread with this, but I've actually been thinking about this lately.

I tend to tell people that I sudy Taijutsu, which is more or less true. I tend to leave the 'ninja' part out. I didn't for the first few people I told, and I'm still regretting it...
Still, I had this one friend, who after getting the usual explanation, (traditional Japanese art, weapons, modern self deffense, etc) said: 'huh, that sounds alot like Ninjutsu',
to which I could only reply '... It sure does'

As for tattoos, I had been thinking of the nin kanji somewhere on my person, but much later down the track, probably to mark getting shodan, if anything. But that's some time away, I may have changed my mind by then... We'll see, I guess
That and I had some ideas about some street fighter related ones, but I can't help but wonder if I'd get laughed out of the dojo