Questions

[kenposcum]

I have a few questions about ninjitsu:
1) How are ninja related to the yamabushi?
2) Okay, I'll confess: I own a couple Ashida Kim books. I thought they were decent, with a few neat ideas. Then I went to his website and oh boy....words fail me. So, who is this guy, and what's his deal?
3) I also have a few books by Stephen Hayes. Where does he fit in? Unlike Mr. Kim, he actually wrote about his training and lineage...
4) So what do you do at a Ninja/Ninpo school? I mean, and this is not meant to be disrepectful, do you just sneak around and climb trees and stuff? I mean, I kind of thought the ninja's whole deal was to be unseen during his mission (ala "Tenchu: Stealth Assassins") and not to engage in "fair" combat.
Well, I'll think of more on my way home, but that'll do it for now. Thanks!:asian:

 

[Jay Bell]

1) How are ninja related to the yamabushi?

I'm honestly not sure. I've seen a lot of historical references that say that Ninja and Yamabushi had close ties...but beyond that, I don't have anything to back that up.

2) Okay, I'll confess: I own a couple Ashida Kim books. I thought they were decent, with a few neat ideas. Then I went to his website and oh boy....words fail me. So, who is this guy, and what's his deal?

Ashida Kim is a fraud and a liar. He typically targets troubled youths in the teenage years to worship and follow him...unfortunately they do. He has no ties to Japan or traditional Ninjutsu in any way.

3) I also have a few books by Stephen Hayes. Where does he fit in? Unlike Mr. Kim, he actually wrote about his training and lineage...

Mr. Hayes was one of the first non-Japanese students of Hatsumi sensei. He's trained under Hatsumi sensei for many years. He created his own theories and angles to teaching Ninpo which is called "Toshindo".

4) So what do you do at a Ninja/Ninpo school? I mean, and this is not meant to be disrepectful, do you just sneak around and climb trees and stuff? I mean, I kind of thought the ninja's whole deal was to be unseen during his mission (ala "Tenchu: Stealth Assassins") and not to engage in "fair" combat.

Outside of the occasional seminar, I've never done any stealth type training. Honestly...if you want to do that, go join Spec Ops

"Fair Combat" is a misnomer. There is combat for survival, then there's not. Typically, our training is much like anytime of budo training. The instructor shows a technique and some concepts out of the technique, then you work together on that information. Nothing too out of the norm about it at all.

Hope that helps a smidge,

Jay

 

[kenposcum]

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought the combat arts of Ninjitsu were just one subcategory. I can't remember the author (not Ashida Kim ), but the book was called "Taijitsu", and it explained itself as saying that Taijitsu was the ninja's "body method," and there were many [blank]-jitsu that the ninja studied.
Also, can you tell me anything about the esoteric side of ninjitsu? I wrote it off as one of Mr. Kim's delusions, but I seem to remember Mr. Hayes' having something to say about kuji-kiri and mandalas and such.
I'll try to find some stuff on the ninja/yamabushi link and report anything I find.
:asian:

 

[tmanifold]

Hayes writes about the esoteric side in "The Mystical arts of the ninja". Besides the religious aspect he goes into Kiai-jutsu and, perhaps the most useful, self hypnosis. He argues that the ninja didn't have super powers they just trained their body and minds to do extrordinary things.

Tony

 

[Jay Bell]

Originally posted by kenposcum

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought the combat arts of Ninjitsu were just one subcategory. I can't remember the author (not Ashida Kim ), but the book was called "Taijitsu", and it explained itself as saying that Taijitsu was the ninja's "body method," and there were many [blank]-jitsu that the ninja studied.

People no longer study Ninjutsu. I think that needs to be set clear first and foremost. We do study Ninpo, however, in everything we do. Taijutsu is a generic term for *any* type of combat fighting in Japan, much like Jujutsu. In Togakure ryu, there were 18 catagories of training.

Also, can you tell me anything about the esoteric side of ninjitsu? I wrote it off as one of Mr. Kim's delusions, but I seem to remember Mr. Hayes' having something to say about kuji-kiri and mandalas and such.
I'll try to find some stuff on the ninja/yamabushi link and report anything I find.
:asian:

Mr. Hayes' angle with kuji-kiri/mandalas comes from Tendai Buddhist, *not* from training in Ninpo.

 

[kenposcum]

Okay, now I get it. Ninpo is the combat art of the ninja, not ninjitsu. Thanks!:asian:

 

[arnisador]

If you use the Search facility you can find lots of info. on Ashida Kim.

 

[Jay Bell]

Ninpo is the combat art of the ninja, not ninjitsu.

Not so much actually. Ninpo is more everything....more methodology and concepts then just the physical techniques.

 

[kenposcum]

Uh, I read a book called "Taijitsu Tactics" by Omoto Saiji (a nom de plume) and in the introduction, he mentions he's a student of the Hayes lineage, and that he spent evenings sneaking through golf courses and people's backyards. Now, this conflicts with what was said regarding the stealth arts no longer being in use. What am I to think?:asian:

 

[Dennis_Mahon]

Uh, I read a book called "Taijitsu Tactics" by Omoto Saiji (a nom de plume) and in the introduction, he mentions he's a student of the Hayes lineage, and that he spent evenings sneaking through golf courses and people's backyards. Now, this conflicts with what was said regarding the stealth arts no longer being in use. What am I to think?

Hayes mentions something similar in his book "Ninja and Their Secret Fighting Art". Whether or not that counts as verification or plagerization, I don't know.

One thing I can say is that while stealth isn't taught as something distinct in the Bujinkan, the more proficient you become in taijutsu, the more stealthy your movements become.

 

[kenposcum]

"...the more steathy your movements become."
But isn't this true for all forms of martial arts training? I mean, I've noticed since I began, back in the day, that I've become lighter on my feet, I control my steps (as opposed to the "controlled fall" that most non-MA, non-athleticists walk in) and my friends complain about how they "never even hear you [me] coming!" Hardly what I'm training for, but isn't learning about, connecting to, and controlling one's body a basic tenet of all martial arts? I'm looking for specific Tenchu: Steath Assassins type stuff. Does it exist, besides amongst Spec Ops? You know, breathing with bamboo tubes, smoke bombs, ascending buildings, disabling sentries, all that good stuff. And while I'm asking, what about the ninja's weapons, the shuriken, the manriki-gusari, the kusari-gama, the ninja-to? Are these taught in Ninpo schools now or what?
Again, my curiosity burns (or maybe that's just the jalapeno poppers).
:asian:

 

[Jay Bell]

And while I'm asking, what about the ninja's weapons, the shuriken, the manriki-gusari, the kusari-gama, the ninja-to? Are these taught in Ninpo schools now or what

Yes

Stealth is taught...but on a very small scale. Like I said earlier, I've done seminars that taught this type of thing. Night training, things of that nature...but it's not a heavy focus.