What can you do with a punch?

[skribs]

I was thinking lately, what are the different ways you can respond to a punch that your opponent throws? Mainly because I was trying to think of everything my opponent can do if I throw a punch, and how that would affect my plan and my reactions leading into my next technique. (If you have an idea of how to respond to what they do, then you don't have to process it in real-time during the fight).

Here's what I've come up with:

• Take the punch - This is often one done accidentally. There's not often a time it's worthwhile to take the punch in a normal striking scenario. However, in a grappling situation, sometimes you don't want to give up your position as you gain leverage. Ideally you would position yourself so that you're at less threat from their punches, but it might easily happen that you're in a spot where until you can transition, you're going to get hit.
• Roll the punch - What I was talking about in my first point. If you're moving when they punch, they won't hit the target they want, at the angle they want, and the impact will be spread out over a longer period of time, which means you won't get rocked as hard. It could mean they hit your cheek instead of your temple, that the punch slides across your forehead instead of straight into your nose, or that they hit your shoulder or guard instead of your head.
• Avoid the Punch - The next step from rolling the punch is to simply not get hit at all. This can be using your core, such as ducking, bobbing, and weaving. Or it can be using your feet to get out of range (step back), inside (step forward), or off the line of the punch (step to either side).
• Intercept the Punch - Either use small movements with your guard or larger movements with your hand to deflect the punch before it hits you. From here, you can strike with that hand, strike with another hand or foot, grab their punch, or simply reset.
• Counter the Punch - Use a punching motion that will knock their punch out of the way on the way to striking them. This is similar to intercepting the punch, but with a more offensive goal.
• Beat the Punch - Simply use a faster punch or a blocking kick to hit them before they hit you. If you can hit faster, that can affect their motion, making them miss or even stop the punch entirely.
• Combination - Combine some of the above. Roll your guard, but still try to beat the attack. Use your feet to avoid the punch, but also throw up a hand to intercept it.

You'll notice that for the most part, I'm not talking about what either person should do next. That's the next step in my line of thinking. There is one closing thought I have, and it's on the subject of vectors.

A vector is a combination of direction and distance. This, to me, is very important when dealing with blocks. There is a direction of power that the strike will have, and a distance where that strike is optimal.

• Direction - The direction of power is very important. If you take a strike in the direction of power, it will hurt you, because you're absorbing all the power. If you deflect the punch along a different axis, then you will face no resistance to your parry.
• Distance - I see this with kicks in Taekwondo sparring all the time. If you're too far away for a kick, you end up reaching to hit the target, which makes your kick move slower, hit weaker, and it puts you off balance so you recover from the kick a lot slower. And you probably won't get the point because it's a bad hit. Similarly, if you're too close, the kick becomes more awkward, if not impossible to properly execute. Once again, you give up power for the sake of accuracy.

Defeating a strike, should therefore follow these principles. There's an optimal distance and direction for the strike to inflict the most damage. If you beat it from a different direction and/or take it at a different distance, then the strength of the attack is significantly reduced, if not beaten entirely.

Now, for the discussion portion - are there any concepts I missed in how to deal with a strike? Is there something you want to add to my overarching principle of vectors? Am I crazy?

 

[Buka]

Am I crazy?

Well, ya, but that's one of the reasons we love you.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Punch the punch. Also known as a fist bump.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You need to include "wrap the punching arm". If you dodge or block the punch, next punch will come after that. If you wrap the punching arm, there will be no more punches.

 

[skribs]

You need to include "wrap the punching arm". If you dodge or block the punch, next punch will come after that. If you wrap the punching arm, there will be no more punches.

That is after the punch what you do with the arm. It falls into avoiding or intercelting the punch.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

That is after the punch what you do with the arm. It falls into avoiding or intercelting the punch.

It actually can be what you do with the punch, depending on how you do it. You don't have to block then wrap, you can just wrap. But I agree it would fall into your intercepting the punch category.

 

[JR 137]

Just don’t forget to duck, and everything should be ok.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Just don’t forget to duck, and everything should be ok.

You don't need to duck if you can use your arms as a shield.

Your opponent punches, you

- dodge, he punches you again.
- block, he still punches you again.

The best solution to deal with punch is to let your opponent not to be able to punch you again.

If you can catch your opponent's kicking leg, he can't kick you any more. The same strategy should be able to apply on punch too.

 

[oftheherd1]

I was thinking lately, what are the different ways you can respond to a punch that your opponent throws? Mainly because I was trying to think of everything my opponent can do if I throw a punch, and how that would affect my plan and my reactions leading into my next technique. (If you have an idea of how to respond to what they do, then you don't have to process it in real-time during the fight).

Here's what I've come up with:

• Take the punch - This is often one done accidentally. There's not often a time it's worthwhile to take the punch in a normal striking scenario. However, in a grappling situation, sometimes you don't want to give up your position as you gain leverage. Ideally you would position yourself so that you're at less threat from their punches, but it might easily happen that you're in a spot where until you can transition, you're going to get hit.
• Roll the punch - What I was talking about in my first point. If you're moving when they punch, they won't hit the target they want, at the angle they want, and the impact will be spread out over a longer period of time, which means you won't get rocked as hard. It could mean they hit your cheek instead of your temple, that the punch slides across your forehead instead of straight into your nose, or that they hit your shoulder or guard instead of your head.
• Avoid the Punch - The next step from rolling the punch is to simply not get hit at all. This can be using your core, such as ducking, bobbing, and weaving. Or it can be using your feet to get out of range (step back), inside (step forward), or off the line of the punch (step to either side).
• Intercept the Punch - Either use small movements with your guard or larger movements with your hand to deflect the punch before it hits you. From here, you can strike with that hand, strike with another hand or foot, grab their punch, or simply reset.
• Counter the Punch - Use a punching motion that will knock their punch out of the way on the way to striking them. This is similar to intercepting the punch, but with a more offensive goal.
• Beat the Punch - Simply use a faster punch or a blocking kick to hit them before they hit you. If you can hit faster, that can affect their motion, making them miss or even stop the punch entirely.
• Combination - Combine some of the above. Roll your guard, but still try to beat the attack. Use your feet to avoid the punch, but also throw up a hand to intercept it.

You'll notice that for the most part, I'm not talking about what either person should do next. That's the next step in my line of thinking. There is one closing thought I have, and it's on the subject of vectors.

A vector is a combination of direction and distance. This, to me, is very important when dealing with blocks. There is a direction of power that the strike will have, and a distance where that strike is optimal.

• Direction - The direction of power is very important. If you take a strike in the direction of power, it will hurt you, because you're absorbing all the power. If you deflect the punch along a different axis, then you will face no resistance to your parry.
• Distance - I see this with kicks in Taekwondo sparring all the time. If you're too far away for a kick, you end up reaching to hit the target, which makes your kick move slower, hit weaker, and it puts you off balance so you recover from the kick a lot slower. And you probably won't get the point because it's a bad hit. Similarly, if you're too close, the kick becomes more awkward, if not impossible to properly execute. Once again, you give up power for the sake of accuracy.

Defeating a strike, should therefore follow these principles. There's an optimal distance and direction for the strike to inflict the most damage. If you beat it from a different direction and/or take it at a different distance, then the strength of the attack is significantly reduced, if not beaten entirely.

Now, for the discussion portion - are there any concepts I missed in how to deal with a strike? Is there something you want to add to my overarching principle of vectors? Am I crazy?

Interesting ideas. I like the idea of trying to codify some defenses for increased efficiency in defense.

I know you have studied TKD and Hapkido. I think I sense more of a TKD slant to your discussion. Was that your intent or am I wrong?

I say that thinking your ideas may be classified differently.

Retreat (and one may have to block as well).

Move off line (and one will almost certainly need to block as well).

Move into the attack (block or control the attacking punch is required).

I am leaving out accept the punch. One must of course be ready if blocking or retreating doesn't work, but imho it is strictly of be avoided, and should be prevented by whatever defense you choose.

My thought is that then only three moves need to be decided on or form a reaction to avoid the punch. After that, there are many techniques that can be employed by the defender.

Continue with retreat.

Attack with a punch or kick.

Attack with nerve strike/pressure.

Attack with joint dislocation into break.

Attack with joint control into throw.

Any combination of above or other known techniques to damage, control or disable the opponent.


Regardless if I am correct that you are looking from more of a TKD mind set, you will no doubt see that I am looking at your decision tree from a Hapkido mindset.

Do you see any value to any of the above? Again, I like the basic idea.

 

[Martial D]

You don't need to duck if you can use your arms as a shield.

Meh. Blocking is a last resort. The initiator always has the speed advantage, not many people are fast enough to see it coming and get their own hand up on the right angle to intercept within the 1/4 second timespan before the punch hits you.

Pre-emptive is always better; keep your hands up and move around in such a way that his strikes will miss. When your caught cover or clinch. This way you don't need to see all the punches..which you won't.

 

[skribs]

Meh. Blocking is a last resort. The initiator always has the speed advantage, not many people are fast enough to see it coming and get their own hand up on the right angle to intercept within the 1/4 second timespan before the punch hits you.

Pre-emptive is always better; keep your hands up and move around in such a way that his strikes will miss. When your caught cover or clinch. This way you don't need to see all the punches..which you won't.

I'm a doughy out-of-shape guy and I have less and less trouble seeing punches coming as time goes on.

@oftheherd1 , whether I'm talking TKD or HKD is irrelevant at this stage. That will come in the next step. I disagree that footwork is required to avoid a punch. It's very helpful for single punches, but for combos a good guard and good core control will work more efficiently.

 

[Martial D]

I'm a doughy out-of-shape guy and I have less and less trouble seeing punches coming as time goes on.

@oftheherd1 , whether I'm talking TKD or HKD is irrelevant at this stage. That will come in the next step. I disagree that footwork is required to avoid a punch. It's very helpful for single punches, but for combos a good guard and good core control will work more efficiently.

Well, we can't all be Spiderman I guess.

 

[Buka]

I don't know if you can open this. It was sent to my phone by a buddy last night, opens there but not on my computer.

Anyway....the aggressor moves in and throws one of those feeler jabs. Promptly cross his stance and gets swept. Corker of a sweep, too.

Then he just goes at the guy, which at the distance he travels is easy to see and time.
But as the old saying goes never eat at a place called Moms, play cards with a guy named Doc and don't ever get in a beef with a trained fighter.

Grappling Sports

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't know if you can open this. It was sent to my phone by a buddy last night, opens there but not on my computer.

Anyway....the aggressor moves in and throws one of those feeler jabs. Promptly cross his stance and gets swept. Corker of a sweep, too.

Then he just goes at the guy, which at the distance he travels is easy to see and time.
But as the old saying goes never eat at a place called Moms, play cards with a guy named Doc and don't ever get in a beef with a trained fighter.

Grappling Sports

You don't tug on superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim

 

[Flying Crane]

You don't tug on superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim

What about pissing into the wind? Huh? What about that? Huh? Huh? Can I piss into the wind??

 

[Xue Sheng]

What about pissing into the wind? Huh? What about that? Huh? Huh? Can I piss into the wind??

No.

 

[Flying Crane]

No.

 

[FriedRice]

You need to include "wrap the punching arm". If you dodge or block the punch, next punch will come after that. If you wrap the punching arm, there will be no more punches.

He's selling an SD chopsocky video.

Does he really do this in his UFC fights?

 

[FriedRice]

You don't need to duck if you can use your arms as a shield.

Your opponent punches, you

- dodge, he punches you again.
- block, he still punches you again.

The best solution to deal with punch is to let your opponent not to be able to punch you again.

If I throw a trashy, loopy, right haymaker and you block like that, then that's 1 to 1 move.

The moment you try to wrap my haymaker arm, that's your 2nd move....then my 2nd move at the same time but landing faster than you can finish "wrapping" (b/c yours is more complicated), would be a left uppercut that should stun or maybe even KO you.

You should loosen or completely let go of the wrap, then the 2nd uppercut and or left hooks are coming.

But in reality, the moment that someone blocks my punch, I'm programmed to retract it immediately, and throw the other fist; not leave it in the air like that.

 

[Christopher Adamchek]

Destroy the punch - such as putting your elbow where the punch will land