what are your thoughts on the new traiining and teaching methods compaired to the old ways

[jay111]

are the new methods and teaching of teaching martial arts better or worse than the old style teachers in the 70s and 80s. started training in the early 80s and I hate the new generation of teachers we see in America today. I think its crap and I feel bad for anyone that gets their black belt today. I have serious problems even considering them black belts. I consider them athletes not martial artists. They can run far and probably in better physical shape than we were when we started training. But they arent as good of fighters. they dont train to be warriors. to take and deliver crushing strikes.

wow ATC full power strikes to each other without any protection. thats just insane

 

[ATC]

Really?!? Not sure about your school or any school you are talking about but I am still recovering from Fridays class where we did partner drills with one partner thowing a punch and the other partner block the punch then deliver a punch to the solorplexus then an elbow, flowed up with a knee while bringing the body down. We had to do this without holding back. Every single person left in agony. So I guess I can't relate. I did not even do that back in the 70's nor the 80's nor the 90's. The class was brutal.

 

[Cyriacus]

Really? Where i Train, its pretty much the Art of High Speed Power Striking, with lots and lots of Sparring, and Hosinsul. Dont let yourself be blinded by a few places teaching the Sport aspect especially. Keep a Clear Mind.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Really? Where i Train, its pretty much the Art of High Speed Power Striking, with lots and lots of Sparring, and Hosinsul. Dont let yourself be blinded by a few places teaching the Sport aspect especially. Keep a Clear Mind.

Very true. Most good clubs have not changed that aspect of their training. There are still plenty of good clubs around who havent changed their training methology over the years.

 

[oftheherd1]

Can you succinctly describe the difference between the old and new?

 

[miguksaram]

are the new methods and teaching of teaching martial arts better or worse than the old style teachers in the 70s and 80s. started training in the early 80s and I hate the new generation of teachers we see in America today. I think its crap and I feel bad for anyone that gets their black belt today. I have serious problems even considering them black belts. I consider them athletes not martial artists. They can run far and probably in better physical shape than we were when we started training. But they arent as good of fighters. they dont train to be warriors. to take and deliver crushing strikes.

wow ATC full power strikes to each other without any protection. thats just insane

Describe your system and school that you learned and please describe your version of training to be a warrior and such. What you consider to be old school or hardcore may or may not be what other consider it to be. We would like a point of reference. Also you overall general assessment of BB today, in my opinion is based on ignorance. How many modern day BB's have you dealt with? How many of their students? If modern day BB's are horrible you have only yourself to blame. They are the product of those who came before them.

 

[Markku P]

Describe your system and school that you learned and please describe your version of training to be a warrior and such. What you consider to be old school or hardcore may or may not be what other consider it to be. We would like a point of reference. Also you overall general assessment of BB today, in my opinion is based on ignorance. How many modern day BB's have you dealt with? How many of their students? If modern day BB's are horrible you have only yourself to blame. They are the product of those who came before them.

I agree with this. I would be happy to hear the answers..I personally feel that today we might actually be better as a fighters because better training methods, more educated instructors and overall information is easier to get.

I started in mid -70 with Karate and I don't think we were better fighters at all..Everything comes with a time.

/Markku P.

 

[ATC]

...wow ATC full power strikes to each other without any protection. thats just insane

Not full power but about 75%. We were told to gague full power as a 5 on a scale from 1-5, and that we should be going about 3-4. Anyone hitting at a 1 or 2 was just fooling themselves. 5 would leave your partner on the floor to throwing up. Even though we were going 3-4 (75%) there were many on the floor.

I am sure some hit with all they had. I had a partner at first that I could hit with 75%-80% of full power and you could tell he felt it. But then our Sabumnim mixed up things and switched out partners. I then got matched up with a guy what I could only hit with a 20% power and he folded. I let that person hit me with his full power and really felt nothing. It's all relative.

 

[Cyriacus]

Not full power but about 75%. We were told to gague full power as a 5 on a scale from 1-5, and that we should be going about 3-4. Anyone hitting at a 1 or 2 was just fooling themselves. 5 would leave your partner on the floor to throwing up. Even though we were going 3-4 (75%) there were many on the floor. I am sure some hit with all they had. I had a partner at first that I could hit with 75%-80% of full power and you could tell he felt it. But then our Sabumnim mixed up things and switched out partners. I then got matched up with a guy what I could only hit with a 20% power and he folded. I let that person hit me with his full power and really felt nothing. It's all relative.

I can relate to that - Light Contact (No protective gear is used; Light contact meaning 25% Power Optimally) where i train is HIGHLY subjective.

 

[texas_rebel_1980]

nevermind

 

[Earl Weiss]

Not full power but about 75%. We were told to gague full power as a 5 on a scale from 1-5, and that we should be going about 3-4. Anyone hitting at a 1 or 2 was just fooling themselves. 5 would leave your partner on the floor to throwing up. Even though we were going 3-4 (75%) there were many on the floor.

.

So, since I can punch thru 4 number 2 grade 1x12 pine boards cut to 10 inch lengths, I will be hitting my opponent with enough force to break 3 of those boards, no safety equipment and they may end up on the floor?

 

[ATC]

So, since I can punch thru 4 number 2 grade 1x12 pine boards cut to 10 inch lengths, I will be hitting my opponent with enough force to break 3 of those boards, no safety equipment and they may end up on the floor?

Not sure of your point but Yeah. Boards are held inplace and a bit dry for breaking. When you hit people they move with the blow as they are not held in place and the body is not ridgid. There is quite a bit of flex so boards and humans are not equal.

I always found it funny when people say it only requiers X amount of force to break a bone. Well yes if the bone is braced, but that is not the case 98% of the time. We put more force on the bones of the body everyday and they don't break.

Now as I said many were on the ground and the force is all relitive. At first we matched up same size with same size then we mixed it up a bit to challenge people. We had to alter the force to match what the person getting hit would consider 75% or so. As I stated the guy I got matched up with only got a 20% force blow and that was enough to put him on his knees but not break anything. Again it is all relative.

One kid (18 or so) got hit a few times really hard by his partner and has a brusied sternum still. I think his partner was hitting with full force. The kid was always on the ground for quite some time.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Not sure of your point but Yeah. Boards are held inplace and a bit dry for breaking. When you hit people they move with the blow as they are not held in place and the body is not ridgid. There is quite a bit of flex so boards and humans are not equal.

OK so, lets change it up. I can punch, Knifehand strike, or spinning heel kick 2 unsupported 1x12 #2 pine boards 10 inches long and if I hit someone hard enough in the face with an unprotected fist, they are not going to be injured? Geez I guess I better tell the 2 guys I slipped up a little on and broke their noses with a turning kick at about 50% power it was a figment of their imagination.

 

[ATC]

OK so, lets change it up. I can punch, Knifehand strike, or spinning heel kick 2 unsupported 1x12 #2 pine boards 10 inches long and if I hit someone hard enough in the face with an unprotected fist, they are not going to be injured? Geez I guess I better tell the 2 guys I slipped up a little on and broke their noses with a turning kick at about 50% power it was a figment of their imagination.

Did you even read my post. Where did I say we were hitting each other in the face? Please read what was posted before you just pop off.

 

[ATC]

Really?!? Not sure about your school or any school you are talking about but I am still recovering from Fridays class where we did partner drills with one partner thowing a punch and the other partner block the punch then deliver a punch to the solorplexus then an elbow, flowed up with a knee while bringing the body down. We had to do this without holding back. Every single person left in agony. So I guess I can't relate. I did not even do that back in the 70's nor the 80's nor the 90's. The class was brutal.

Just requoting myself for those that did not get it the first time. OH and solarplexus is located near the middle of the torso, not the face. ;-)

 

[Earl Weiss]

>>one partner thowing a punch and the other partner block the punch then deliver a punch to the solorplexus then an elbow, flowed up with a knee while bringing the body down. We had to do this without holding back<<

Your right but same issues stand.

 

[ATC]

>>one partner thowing a punch and the other partner block the punch then deliver a punch to the solorplexus then an elbow, flowed up with a knee while bringing the body down. We had to do this without holding back<<

Your right but same issues stand.

Not at all. Same size guys hitting each other in the body at about 75% power within a drill will hurt and you may go to your knees with the wind knocked out of you, and some brusing but that is about it. Now as I also stated we mixed up the partners where smaller people were with lager people, and the larger people had to tone down the hits while the smaller people did not have to. Gave them perspective on what it would be like if they ever had an encounter with a larger stronger person. From a getting hit stand point to a giving the hit stand point.

Getting hit in the body during a drill when you know what is coming gives you the knowledge to know when to tighten up, and go with the blow no matter how hard they hit. When the knee was being delivered most people had a small lift up (jump) to help lessen the impact. This was not fighting but a drill. All parties know what is coming and can prepare for it.

Now getting hit in the face with even 25% power can be really dangerous. Body conditioning is something that all should be doing in my opinion.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Not at all. Same size guys hitting each other in the body at about 75% power within a drill will hurt and you may go to your knees with the wind knocked out of you, and some brusing but that is about it. Now as I also stated we mixed up the partners where smaller people were with lager people, and the larger people had to tone down the hits while the smaller people did not have to. Gave them perspective on what it would be like if they ever had an encounter with a larger stronger person. From a getting hit stand point to a giving the hit stand point.

Getting hit in the body during a drill when you know what is coming gives you the knowledge to know when to tighten up, and go with the blow no matter how hard they hit. When the knee was being delivered most people had a small lift up (jump) to help lessen the impact. This was not fighting but a drill. All parties know what is coming and can prepare for it.

Now getting hit in the face with even 25% power can be really dangerous. Body conditioning is something that all should be doing in my opinion.

I dont see a problem with this. We do all our self defence training with the 'attacker' throwing kicks or punches at about 70-80%, basically if you get hit it will hurt, you will have the wind knocked out of you, you may end up with bruises etc but you are learning to defend attacks in real time. Its different with the kids in class, they probably do self defence at about 50%.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Getting hit in the body during a drill when you know what is coming gives you the knowledge to know when to tighten up, and go with the blow no matter how hard they hit. When the knee was being delivered most people had a small lift up (jump) to help lessen the impact. This was not fighting but a drill. All parties know what is coming and can prepare for it.

Now getting hit in the face with even 25% power can be really dangerous. Body conditioning is something that all should be doing in my opinion.

Getting hit in the body can be dangerous as well. (Ask Harry Houdini). I guess the key is partners who can properly gauge their power, and hit the correct target. I cracked a studen's rib when sparring once and didn't know untill much later when they told me. Didn't recall hitting hard, just caught them the rght way. Back in the early 1970's when still in the "Blood and Guts" era a student in our org. died following a ruptured spleen rec'd during a tournament. I think the seniors came to a needed decision at the funeral that no matter how much they loved the art, death was too high a price to pay and contact needed to be toned down.

 

[ATC]

Getting hit in the body can be dangerous as well. (Ask Harry Houdini). I guess the key is partners who can properly gauge their power, and hit the correct target. I cracked a studen's rib when sparring once and didn't know untill much later when they told me. Didn't recall hitting hard, just caught them the rght way. Back in the early 1970's when still in the "Blood and Guts" era a student in our org. died following a ruptured spleen rec'd during a tournament. I think the seniors came to a needed decision at the funeral that no matter how much they loved the art, death was too high a price to pay and contact needed to be toned down.

Again apples to oranges. A tournament is not a drill where you know what is coming and can (should) prepare for it. Being that you should go with the strike to lessen the blow, Tense or relax as to lessen the blow or just move out of the way if you are not ready or feel that you can't take what is coming. Also it is always told to all that you must talk to your partner and let him know if he/she needs to tone it down a bit or even pick it up some.

Remember 75% is not the same for everyone. If I am told to use 75% power (and I weight 200 pounds or so) and my partner is 140 pounds, then I need to be able to adjust and have my partner take 75% power for his weight and size. Now my partner on the other hand can most likey hit with 100% power. But even 140 pound person can hit really really hard and 100% may be too much, so it would be my job to let him know that he hits hard for his size and to easy up a bit.

You have to understand that when typing on this forum you can only convey so much in written words. There will always be some inferance needed. Don't just take everything literally.