What a day - forced to use SD against my own sister...

[ammonihah99]

That sucks and I'm sorry too that you were put in that situation, but . . .

I might be way off base here, but am I the only one who thinks that it's wrong to be hitting and kicking a girl . . . especially a sister? I mean I know that we're trained to defend ourselves, but if that was me and my teacher read what I just read, he'd kick the crap out of ME, and I'd be finding a new school.

I've been in situations where I've needed to restrain someone that was a friend who lost his temper, and it's difficult to control a situation like that, but when you start striking and kicking as hard as you can, it's out of hand.

I often think to myself, "What would a martial arts-trained police officer do?" The ones I know tend to stay away from striking and stick with defense-only and body manipulation principles. Because they are confident that they could easily handle the situation violently, it is more of a motivation to handle it non-violently.

Now that's one situation, but it's another when it's some person that you don't know. You have no idea what their skill level is. For all you know they have it in mind to kill you. That's when the blood starts pumping and you step it up a notch.

And maybe it's because I'm a really big guy and could handle easily my sister coming at me with all her fury. Keep in mind that I write this not knowing anything about you.

And aren't we taught to not let situations escalate? I wasn't there, but was there anything you could have done or said that would have given the story a better ending? The biggest trajedy is that your and your dad's relationship with your sister might be foever changed.

Again let me know if I'm out of line here. I want to know what you all think.

Ammon

P.S. Hi. I'm new here and I hail from Mesa, AZ.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

That sucks and I'm sorry too that you were put in that situation, but . . .

I might be way off base here, but am I the only one who thinks that it's wrong to be hitting and kicking a girl . . . especially a sister? I mean I know that we're trained to defend ourselves, but if that was me and my teacher read what I just read, he'd kick the crap out of ME, and I'd be finding a new school.

I've been in situations where I've needed to restrain someone that was a friend who lost his temper, and it's difficult to control a situation like that, but when you start striking and kicking as hard as you can, it's out of hand.

P.S. Hi. I'm new here and I hail from Mesa, AZ.

First, I think that you are making the flawed assumption that physical assaults by family members are not as serious and as potentially life threatening as assaults by complete strangers. To the contrary, I think the LEO's on the board would point out that domestic situations can be the most violent of all.

Secondly, welcome to MT!

 

[Jade Tigress]

That sucks and I'm sorry too that you were put in that situation, but . . .

I might be way off base here, but am I the only one who thinks that it's wrong to be hitting and kicking a girl . . . especially a sister? I mean I know that we're trained to defend ourselves, but if that was me and my teacher read what I just read, he'd kick the crap out of ME, and I'd be finding a new school.

I've been in situations where I've needed to restrain someone that was a friend who lost his temper, and it's difficult to control a situation like that, but when you start striking and kicking as hard as you can, it's out of hand.

I often think to myself, "What would a martial arts-trained police officer do?" The ones I know tend to stay away from striking and stick with defense-only and body manipulation principles. Because they are confident that they could easily handle the situation violently, it is more of a motivation to handle it non-violently.

Now that's one situation, but it's another when it's some person that you don't know. You have no idea what their skill level is. For all you know they have it in mind to kill you. That's when the blood starts pumping and you step it up a notch.

And maybe it's because I'm a really big guy and could handle easily my sister coming at me with all her fury. Keep in mind that I write this not knowing anything about you.

And aren't we taught to not let situations escalate? I wasn't there, but was there anything you could have done or said that would have given the story a better ending? The biggest trajedy is that your and your dad's relationship with your sister might be foever changed.

Again let me know if I'm out of line here. I want to know what you all think.

Ammon

P.S. Hi. I'm new here and I hail from Mesa, AZ.

Hi ammonihah99. Welcome to MT. Why not pop over to Meet & Greet and introduce yourself there?

On the subject of "Sam" and hitting girls, there appears to be some confusion. Sam isn't a brother beating up on his sister, our "Sam" is a girl, short for Samantha.

 

[Sam]

I've been in situations where I've needed to restrain someone that was a friend who lost his temper, and it's difficult to control a situation like that, but when you start striking and kicking as hard as you can, it's out of hand.

Hi Ammon. :wavey:Welcome to MT. Just wanted to respond to a few things you said. out of the three techniques I used, only one was as 'hard as I could', and although I've been training religously for more than a year, you should keep in mind my size. Garanteed my side kick has 'oomph' too it, but I'm a 5 foot 2 girl - a kick thrown by yourself - admittedly a big guy - would have been much more devestating. I also changed the target area - normally I would throw it to the ribs or knee, but I didn't want to hurt her, just shock her and knock her on her butt.

I often think to myself, "What would a martial arts-trained police officer do?" The ones I know tend to stay away from striking and stick with defense-only and body manipulation principles. Because they are confident that they could easily handle the situation violently, it is more of a motivation to handle it non-violently.

I, on the other hand, was not confident of that at the time. I know logically, here and now, that I would have been fine, but I was pretty freaked out. My sister is much bigger than me, and although I'm a kenpoist, she gets into fights pretty often. Also, the evasion tactics I would have liked to use, (stepping off the line, going off angle) were not an option because of the small space. I think I mentioned it, we were in a hallway.

Now that's one situation, but it's another when it's some person that you don't know. You have no idea what their skill level is. For all you know they have it in mind to kill you. That's when the blood starts pumping and you step it up a notch.

Maybe it would be different if I routinely had to calm extremely angry friends - but my blood was definitely pumping. I was pretty shaky (literally) a while after the incident. I don't think she wanted to kill me, but she certainly wanted to hurt me more than I wanted to be hurt.

And maybe it's because I'm a really big guy and could handle easily my sister coming at me with all her fury. Keep in mind that I write this not knowing anything about you.

I think by this point you realize that I am NOT a really big guy, and cannot claim the same.

 

[shesulsa]

Might I say defending yourself against a family member can be very precarious - you almost want to beat the living crap out of them, but hesitate to do so for fear of really hurting a family member, even though they're hurting you ....
Ick. It's all very convoluted and melancholy and confusing. You have to go back and think, okay, did I kick/hit him/her too hard or not hard enough? What will s/he bring on the next time? Will s/he come to his/her senses after this, or am I going to have to prepare for the absolute worst? Just how far am I willing to go on this if the **** really goes down?

And at first glance that last question seems easy to answer - I won't allow anyone else to take my life no matter their relation or lack thereof to me. When you introduce an element of family, other very big questions come in and wreak havoc (even if we don't want to admit it).

Very icky indeed.

Sam, may I ask if you have discussed this with your instructor at all?

 

[Sam]

well, this happened on tuesday, and I left the studio before I could talk to him (as I was sick) and he wasnt at the studio yesterday because his wife was testing for her black belt (she got it). Tonight I have a private lesson, so I will be able to speak with him this evening. Why do you ask?

 

[rutherford]

Also, the evasion tactics I would have liked to use, (stepping off the line, going off angle) were not an option because of the small space. I think I mentioned it, we were in a hallway.

I think this is one of the things you should bring up with your instructor. All this stuff works in confined spaces, plus you typically have all sorts of interesting things to bounce yourself and your opponent off.

 

[shesulsa]

Why do you ask?

Because I think it's a good self-defense situation to discuss with an expert. Confined space situations are worthy of exploring. It also seems he has been supportive of you in the past and I thought it might be a good convo to have with him. Reactions, post-incident thoughts, etcetera, are all good topics to explore from a self-defense perspective.

 

[ammonihah99]

I apologize. I had foolishly assumed that you were a man. I also didn't know she was that threatening to you.

You know I was trying to figure out why, when all this was happening with your sister, your sis's boyfriend didn't step in and brawl with you too. Umm now I know why.

Boy do I feel sheepish.

Ammon

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Isnt there a statistic somewhere that says that you are more likely to be killed or attacked by a family member than anybody else? As to the close quarter stuff. The Modern Arnis stuff Ive been taught seems pretty good. Stepping off the line and quick chopping like mostins taht dont use a lot of wind up and knees and elbows. But as nobody appears to have been hurt or put in jail I say it sounds like you did OK overall.

 

[shesulsa]

I apologize. I had foolishly assumed that you were a man. I also didn't know she was that threatening to you.

You know I was trying to figure out why, when all this was happening with your sister, your sis's boyfriend didn't step in and brawl with you too. Umm now I know why.

Boy do I feel sheepish.

Ammon

It helps if take the time to read the entire post. Something this lengthy and important deserves reading rather than Evelyn Wood scanning. Much can get missed.

 

[shesulsa]

Isnt there a statistic somewhere that says that you are more likely to be killed or attacked by a family member than anybody else?

I couldn't find that one, but I did find the statistic that a woman is more likely to be attacked by someone she knows - male or female.

 

[MA-Caver]

I think this is one of the things you should bring up with your instructor. All this stuff works in confined spaces, plus you typically have all sorts of interesting things to bounce yourself and your opponent off.

This is why Kenpo (among a few other arts) is a good "close quarter combat" art. It's been described to me aptly as the "phonebooth art" meaning you can take your fight there... So to speak.
Its using your environment to your advantage.

:asian:

 

[Jonathan Randall]

well, this happened on tuesday, and I left the studio before I could talk to him (as I was sick) and he wasnt at the studio yesterday because his wife was testing for her black belt (she got it). Tonight I have a private lesson, so I will be able to speak with him this evening. Why do you ask?

I also think that talking to someone close can be therapeutic. Family fights are especially traumatic. I went through the family Christmas from hell last year so I know. Hope everything works out for you and that your sister comes to her senses.

 

[Adept]

One thing that stands out to me in this situation was your reliance on striking techniques. Personally, in this kind of situation, I would opt for compliance and submission techniques. I don't know if you train chokes and holds, or if you do but not to the same level as striking, but in that situation (restraining a sibling, friend, etc) I would first try and use low impact techniques, before resorting to striking.

 

[rziriak]

One thing that stands out to me in this situation was your reliance on striking techniques. Personally, in this kind of situation, I would opt for compliance and submission techniques. I don't know if you train chokes and holds, or if you do but not to the same level as striking, but in that situation (restraining a sibling, friend, etc) I would first try and use low impact techniques, before resorting to striking.

Kenpo is a striking art. Every block is a strike and every strike is a block.

 

[bignick]

Isnt there a statistic somewhere that says that you are more likely to be killed or attacked by a family member than anybody else?

Actually, I believe this is the first time in history where you are more likely to be killed by a stranger...

Now that's what I call progres...

 

[searcher]

Just remember that you will always have your martial brothers and martial sisters that will be there for you. It is a sad truth that there are family members that have to be this way. I feel that you acted with great restraint and honor in how you dealt with the situation. My hat is off to you. I am not sure I could have held myself back. Though the outcome is not something we would hope for it is better that you ended it quickly and YOU were not hurt. This is why we push ourselves day in-day out.

 

[Sam]

One thing that stands out to me in this situation was your reliance on striking techniques. Personally, in this kind of situation, I would opt for compliance and submission techniques. I don't know if you train chokes and holds, or if you do but not to the same level as striking, but in that situation (restraining a sibling, friend, etc) I would first try and use low impact techniques, before resorting to striking.

We dont generally like chokes or holds. By examining the moves I am taught to use against them, I see what others could do to ME if I attempted a choke or hold on them.

She is my sister but I will not give her unnecessary opportunity to hurt me - even if that means she got an extra bruise.

 

[Adept]

By examining the moves I am taught to use against them, I see what others could do to ME if I attempted a choke or hold on them.

I don't want to drag the thread too off topic, but as a crowd controller/bouncer, I am often called on to use these techniques against violent, resisting persons, and when properly executed the opportunity for the other person to harm you is no greater than when executing striking techniques. I'd recommend taking a look at some jujitsu training to supplement your SD skills, if I were you.

She is my sister but I will not give her unnecessary opportunity to hurt me - even if that means she got an extra bruise.

I can understand, and I agree 100%. But I ask you, how might the situation have panned out if you and your sister were alone in the house? From reading your opening post, it seems to me that you would have had to continue hitting her until she was physically unable to continue attacking you. When the only tools you have are strikes, this could have resulted in some quite serious injury to your sister. I'm not saying chokes, holds, SJM or submissions are better than striking, but I think they are invaluable tools to have in your self defense bag.