Weight Training and TKD

Greb0603

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Can you train in heavy weights to build muscle and still expect to get to a good standard in TKD? Or will one effect the other?
 

terryl965

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Can you train in heavy weights to build muscle and still expect to get to a good standard in TKD? Or will one effect the other?

I have plenty of students that supplement there training with wieghts every other day and still can do everything. I would give it a try and see if it works for you.
 

exile

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Why would you expect stronger muscles (which are faster muscles, because the very first stage of weight training involves increasing synchronization of motor unit firing, meaning that the nerve bundles which activate muscle contraction start start working together much more tightly) to lead to worse, rather than better performancesparticularly in an activity where explosive strength is so important?
 

IcemanSK

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I don't know a great deal about weight training, but I have 2 examples to illustrate exile's point.

I have a friend who was an amatuer body builder in college & became one of my students in his 20's. Since he didn't stretch along with his body builder training, he was VERY stiff in TKD. It took him a long time to become flexible. Although, he did finally get there.

The other example is Jean Claude Van Damme. Say what you will about him or his movies: he has both a muscular physique & excellent flexibilty. Because both were important in his training.

As long as flexibilty isn't ignored in weight training, I think weight training (even body building-type training) is a great addition to MA training.
 

exile

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I have a friend who was an amatuer body builder in college & became one of my students in his 20's. Since he didn't stretch along with his body builder training, he was VERY stiff in TKD. It took him a long time to become flexible. Although, he did finally get there.

The other example is Jean Claude Van Damme. Say what you will about him or his movies: he has both a muscular physique & excellent flexibilty. Because both were important in his training.

As long as flexibilty isn't ignored in weight training, I think weight training (even body building-type training) is a great addition to MA training.

Absolutely, Ice. Take a look at male gymnasts, some of the most powerfully muscled athletes in the Olympics&#8212;and some of the most flexible people in existence (if you're stiff on a pommel horse, or in a floor exercise, or on the rings, you're in biiiiiig trouble! :uhohh:) Or look at sprinters&#8212;a lot of them are very muscular (sprinting is an anaerobic, not an aerobic, kind of activity, so it's similar in its demands to weight training&#8212;which many of these guys do as part of their training). And for sheer speed, no one can touch 'em.

The thing to remember, always, is that a natural training program&#8212;no anabolic substance, y'hear?!!&#8212;will always have your muscles and your tendons growing in tandem. The problem with 'bulking up' comes in if you're using anabolic growth stimulants, which will lead to muscle volume increase, but not a comparable growth in the size of the connective tissue that actually controls those muscles. It's like having a marionette made out of material that's way too heavy for the strength of the strings you're using to try to move the puppet's parts. Can't work. A natural weight-training program will give you proportional growth, and you won't experience anything like the 'bulking up' that so many people wrongly fear.

Remember, some of the most powerful boxers have been amongst the quickest. Muhammed Ali in his prime was way more muscular than most of us ever are going to be&#8212;but he trained for flexibility and agility too, and look at how effective he was. Weight training, flexibility training, balance training&#8212;it's all good! :)
 
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searcher

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I agree with Iceman and exile, flexibility training cannot be ignored. But it is no different than a person coming in off of the street that has run marathons and has performed limited stretching. They will be just as stiff. It is an old school misnomer that strength training makes you stiffer and it is constantly being perpetuated by those that don't like strength training for whatever reason.

Strengthening your muscles also strengthens the tendons and ligaments, which has the positive effect of less potential for injury.
 

bluekey88

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I started a serious lifting program a few years ago and it did nothing but improvr my TKD. Lift big, train hard, stay felxible. It'll do ya good :)

Peace,
Erik
 

dancingalone

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For me, I've adopted yoga practice for gaining both flexibility and strength. Since I studied goju-ryu karate for years, I tend to favor strengthening exercises that are "natural" or perhaps use the same motion as physical labor, like pitching hay. Yoga does a great job of building functional strength without using a lot of extra equipment and the breathing practice within it is closely linked to the qigong practice I already do.
 

rabbit

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It depends on what type of weight training you do.

If you are powerlifting 500+ pounds of weight you are going to run into some problems.

Bodybuilding type training is good to develop a better body for ANY sport. There is Ideal body composition for certain sports. Also certain sport tend to develop a certain type of body. Long distance runners are very lean and usually have very little muscle. Adding muscle to the right places after years of playing a certain sport can help prevent injury and improve performance.


I got my information from Arnold's Encylopedia of bodybuilding.
 

SJON

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Folks,

Let's not forget the difference between body building and strength training.

Body building (and the lesser version performed by male models, actors and beach boys) is the discipline of sculpting the body for aesthetic reasons, with a high use of machines and isolation exercises, basically by swelling existing muscle fibres with water. It develops some strength, but also causes a lot of imbalances due to the isolation work, and is probably the source of the inflexible/slow muscleman myth.


Strength training is the use of free weights (i.e. barbells) to perform exercises which imitate natural lifting movements and employ multiple muscles, producing less bulk than body building but an increase in number of muscle fibres. By doing full back squats, deadlifts, power cleans and standing presses you will develop functional strength and also keep your back in one piece.

According to Crossfit, a complete program should take into account diet, cardiovascular conditioning (aerobic and anaerobic), gymnastics (muscular endurance, control of one's bodyweight, flexibility) and strength, in that order of priority. I tend to agree. I do Yoga daily, build the CV and gymnastics into the TKD training, and do weights on non-TKD days.
 

bluekey88

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Exactly...in fact, after doing pure strenght (not body bulding...strength building work) for a couple of years and only doing catrdio as a wamr up, I switched over to crossfit. I'm still gaining size/strenght (though not as quickly) but my catrdio (a traditional weak point for me my whole life) has never been better.

You have to work hard (it's gonna hurt...the works out will both blow and suck), you have to do compound, whole body movements. You have to work with intensity and keep things gogin at unsustainable levels (no need for hour long sessions on the elliptical trainer). You don't necessarily need a lot of equipment...though a bar and some weights doesn't hurt :) You'll have to vary your workout frequently so your body won't get used to what our doing. You'll have to make sure your efforts target all the key areas of fitness (strength, power, flexibility, anaerobic endurance, aerobic endurance, mental condiitong/heart...the "I can do this " factor).

You do this, your TKD...or whatever you do...will get better.

Peace,
Erik

Folks,

Let's not forget the difference between body building and strength training.

Body building (and the lesser version performed by male models, actors and beach boys) is the discipline of sculpting the body for aesthetic reasons, with a high use of machines and isolation exercises, basically by swelling existing muscle fibres with water. It develops some strength, but also causes a lot of imbalances due to the isolation work, and is probably the source of the inflexible/slow muscleman myth.


Strength training is the use of free weights (i.e. barbells) to perform exercises which imitate natural lifting movements and employ multiple muscles, producing less bulk than body building but an increase in number of muscle fibres. By doing full back squats, deadlifts, power cleans and standing presses you will develop functional strength and also keep your back in one piece.

According to Crossfit, a complete program should take into account diet, cardiovascular conditioning (aerobic and anaerobic), gymnastics (muscular endurance, control of one's bodyweight, flexibility) and strength, in that order of priority. I tend to agree. I do Yoga daily, build the CV and gymnastics into the TKD training, and do weights on non-TKD days.
 

searcher

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Folks,

Let's not forget the difference between body building and strength training.

Body building (and the lesser version performed by male models, actors and beach boys) is the discipline of sculpting the body for aesthetic reasons, with a high use of machines and isolation exercises, basically by swelling existing muscle fibres with water. It develops some strength, but also causes a lot of imbalances due to the isolation work, and is probably the source of the inflexible/slow muscleman myth.


Strength training is the use of free weights (i.e. barbells) to perform exercises which imitate natural lifting movements and employ multiple muscles, producing less bulk than body building but an increase in number of muscle fibres. By doing full back squats, deadlifts, power cleans and standing presses you will develop functional strength and also keep your back in one piece.

According to Crossfit, a complete program should take into account diet, cardiovascular conditioning (aerobic and anaerobic), gymnastics (muscular endurance, control of one's bodyweight, flexibility) and strength, in that order of priority. I tend to agree. I do Yoga daily, build the CV and gymnastics into the TKD training, and do weights on non-TKD days.



I disagree. I am a personal trainer and I see many come into the gym that are bodybuilders. They all stretch daily and some are very flexible. As a matter of fact, one of the most flexible, if not the most flexible, guy I know is a TKD BB and is a bodybuilder, 7x Mr. KS. I also train CrossFit on a regular basis as well, along with some of those bodybuilders.
 

HM2PAC

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I'll agree with searcher on this topic. I've known many bodybuilders in my lifetime, they all were/are very flexible.

Body building is the discipline of sculpting the body for aesthetic reasons...basically by swelling existing muscle fibres with water

What does that mean? I don't understand this at all.
 

exile

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I'll agree with searcher on this topic. I've known many bodybuilders in my lifetime, they all were/are very flexible.



What does that mean? I don't understand this at all.

My understanding is that this 'volumization' is really associated primarily with steroid use&#8212;steroids have the effect of causing muscle tissue to absorb more water, which increases the radius of the muscle fibres (and hence of bundles of such fibres). Muscle strength is directly related to the radius of muscle tissue, so you get strength and size gains... but only as long as you stay on the steroid routine (which is one reason why, self-serving claims by steroid-pushers to the contrary, it's far from clear that increased volume does actually promote new muscle cell growth; if it did, then the effect presumably would be permanent, as long as the muscles continued to be worked. But bodybuilders and athletes who go off steroids lose muscle mass relatively quickly, no matter how intense they keep their workouts. They don't actually wind up 'owning' the extra growth). And doing so can wreak every manner of hell with the body....

This is apparently different from what human growth hormone does; by stimulating the production of insulin-like growth factor, HGH actually causes new muscle tissue to be created, according to various sources I've seen. So the effects of HGH, compared to those of anabolic steroids, is much longer term. The problem is, everything grows, including bone&#8212;not good for an adult, eh? So it too can have very dangerous side effects&#8212;abnormal skeletal growth is an ugly thing, and there are several others you don't want to have anything to do with.

But I gather that one of the normal effects of chemically unassisted resistance training is also to increase the cell volume of muscle fibres through increased water absorbtion and retention&#8212;but not nearly on the same scale as what you get with an anabolic hormone...
 
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searcher

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I'll agree with searcher on this topic. I've known many bodybuilders in my lifetime, they all were/are very flexible.



What does that mean? I don't understand this at all.


Actually, the use of diuretics are involved to make the muscles look the way they do in competition. This in concert with muscle pumping gives the appearance of bulging muscles.
 

rabbit

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Imagine the imbalances you would develop if you didn't work all the major muscles of the body. You could have way overpowering quads compared to the hamstring which may lead to injury or worse performace.

I recommend getting as good as you can in TKD and after years of training throw some weight training in there. There is diminishing return from performing only TKD.
 

SJON

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I actually gained flexibility through weight training. Particularly, full-depth low-bar back squats vastly improved the flexibility of my hamstrings and shoulders.

I don't favour Crossfit workouts myself. I don't think they're a bad thing; I just prefer to keep the various areas of my training a little more separate. What I do like about them is their insistence on developing global fitness rather than concentrating on one aspect.

Expanding on my earlier comment regarding body builders and lack of flexibility, I meant that body builders are more likely to be inflexible than strength trainees because the former are primarily aesthetics-oriented rather than performance-oriented. I don't recall saying that body builders are by definition inflexible.
 
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