WC Punch

[SaulGoodman]

Not sure about circular attacks, this is fast becoming a circular discussion

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When you punch at your opponent's face, do you try to step in your leading leg as far as you can between his legs? In CMA, it's called "入马(Ru Ma) - enter horse". This way, you can take over your opponent's center. I believe this is also a very important WC principle.

 

[guy b.]

Because I do not think that works reliably in all situations. Because, despite what you may think, I have sparred with good people. Non-Wing Chun people. Many would just keep throwing their non-linear punches despite any kind of baiting or positioning simply because that's the main punch they know!

If people are throwing looping punches from long range they are unlikley to hit and lilely to be easy to hit. This is why boxers begin by learning to hit straight.

If your main objection to VT is that it doesn't have a counter to standing inexplicably in range of a moron throwing untrained looping punches at any and all ranges then I don't think we have much to worry about.

 

[guy b.]

This is very true John! But when someone sees their Wing Chun as being all about the punch and oriented towards exchanging blows, then closing in that close to control and affect the opponent's structure and balance doesn't occur to them. All they know to do is to try and punch the opponent out!

VT isn't grappling. It is in fact about the worst grappling platform imaginable. MMA hitting from the clinch much more useful for this eventuality.

 

[guy b.]

Ok, I give up. Once again, it has become abundantly clear that discussions like this go nowhere with you

Great, glad to hear it. Discussion will be easier without trolling

 

[guy b.]

I just think it is a bad idea to start reaching out with techniques like taan-sau or biu-sau when surprised with a round shot. Extending both arms far from your head in such situations is a dangerous flinch habit. Better to protect the head close, and that is provenly effective

Agree. It isn't just a bad idea, it is asking to be knocked out. It is what untrained people do. Training that as a response is just mind boggling.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Agree. It isn't just a bad idea, it is asking to be knocked out. It is what untrained people do. Training that as a response is just mind boggling.

The best way to protect your head is to put your head in a position that your opponent's fists cannot reach it. Both

- Tan Da, and
- double Tan Shou,

can achieve that.

How can your opponent be able to knock you out if he can't even reach to your head? Again, it will be your opponent's head that he has to worry about.

 

[LFJ]

This is very true John! But when someone sees their Wing Chun as being all about the punch and oriented towards exchanging blows, then closing in that close to control and affect the opponent's structure and balance doesn't occur to them. All they know to do is to try and punch the opponent out!

Jeezus! Still beating up on that same straw man?

No one has said "dodging and moving back" or staying out and "exchanging blows" is their method in Wing Chun.

So who and what are you talking about?

 

[LFJ]

The best way to protect your head is to put your head in a position that your opponent's fists cannot reach it. Both

- Tan Da, and
- double Tan Shou,

can achieve that.

How can your opponent be able to knock you out if he can't even reach to your head? Again, it will be your opponent's head that he has to worry about.

Taan-sau only works against round punches when you have a buddy throwing a weak punch to the space about two feet to the side of your head and acting stunned by your awesome technique.

It doesn't work against real, powerful round punches at all. Don't even dream about it.

 

[wtxs]

In response to round attacks, I've explained that we have strategy and tactics to diminish the likelihood and effectiveness of them.

Out of range, distance control will prevent round attacks and draw linear ones. When distance is closed, positioning and spatial dominance will greatly reduce the ability of the opponent to throw round attacks and weaken their effectiveness if attempted.

This is the answer to dealing with round attacks in general. It starts from fighting strategy, not a resort to remedial actions for the lack of intelligent strategy. The specific tactics used to accomplish this have been purposefully omitted.

I could be wrong, I thought the main goal of this forum is to SHARE our ideas and knowledge. Withholding information relative to subject of discussion is what led to the mess we are in. If the specific tactics are Sooo secrets that you can't reveal to but a privileged few, why are you here?

 

[geezer]

VT isn't grappling. It is in fact about the worst grappling platform imaginable...

Oh? Maybe you better tell this guy. He seems to think that he can move seamlessly from VT into shuai chiao. Clearly you should set him strait.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

VT isn't grappling. It is in fact about the worst grappling platform imaginable. MMA hitting from the clinch much more useful for this eventuality.

Both WC and Taiji are easier to integrate grappling because WC has sticky hands and Taiji has push hands. IMO, it's easier to add the grappling element into WC than to add into long fist, Baji, Zimen, XingYi, ...

 

[guy b.]

Both WC and Taiji are easier to integrate grappling because WC has sticky hands and Taiji has push hands. IMO, it's easier to add the grappling element into WC than to add into long fist, Baji, Zimen, XingYi

You do chi sau in such a way that it bears some relation to grappling?

 

[wckf92]

You do chi sau in such a way that it bears some relation to grappling?

I think he is referring to the idea behind training chi sau.
This one dude (BJJ'er) had me in full mount trying to work his game...I was lying comfortably...just stale-mating him every step of the way. 20min into it, he just gave, completely aggravated that none of his stuff was working. The skill ingrained during chi sau was what did it. I have rolled with Royce, for me, trying to "grapple" someone of his caliber...is like chi sau'ing. No biggie.

 

[Eric_H]

When you punch at your opponent's face, do you try to step in your leading leg as far as you can between his legs? In CMA, it's called "入马(Ru Ma) - enter horse". This way, you can take over your opponent's center. I believe this is also a very important WC principle.

No, in fact this would be considered a violation of Wing Chun's idea of spacial management. It would fall under what we describe in my line as "Chung" or crashing in. One of WC's purposes is to avoid grappling, this type of entry is to secure body-to-body grappling style leverage.

 

[LFJ]

I could be wrong, I thought the main goal of this forum is to SHARE our ideas and knowledge. Withholding information relative to subject of discussion is what led to the mess we are in. If the specific tactics are Sooo secrets that you can't reveal to but a privileged few, why are you here?

Given a general strategy, experienced practitioners "should" know or be able to figure out what to do with it. I can't be expected to write out a step by step tutorial on something as unpredictable as fighting.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You do chi sau in such a way that it bears some relation to grappling?

The following training are very similar.

- WC Chi Shou,
- Taiji push hands,
- wrestling grip fight.

If you cross train WC, Taiji, and wrestling, it will be impossible that you don't consider "integration".

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

One of WC's purposes is to avoid grappling, ...

It's very difficult to avoid grappling if you apply WC "forward pressure". You want to move in, but you don't want to move in too much. What kind of battle do you intend to fight?

 

[dudewingchun]

I think he is referring to the idea behind training chi sau.
This one dude (BJJ'er) had me in full mount trying to work his game...I was lying comfortably...just stale-mating him every step of the way. 20min into it, he just gave, completely aggravated that none of his stuff was working. The skill ingrained during chi sau was what did it. I have rolled with Royce, for me, trying to "grapple" someone of his caliber...is like chi sau'ing. No biggie.

What

 

[guy b.]

The following training are very similar.

- WC Chi Shou,
- Taiji push hands,
- wrestling grip fight.

If you cross train WC, Taiji, and wrestling, it will be impossible that you don't consider "integration".

Chi sau bears no relation to grip fighting. This is because their purposes are diametrically opposed.