Verbal training as a part of the class instructions?

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still learning

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Hello, I had mention it many times to our head instructors, good idea but NO.


Tongue Fu, Judo fu and other books like it.... can teach us how not to get into confrontions. Why? Isn't this taught in every martial class?

Many of us do not know about "woofing" and how NOT to react to the words and realize it is an interview on how we are going to react to that person who is "woofing" at us. Prevention is better....this is a thing we must learn


Any Idea's and thoughts on this? ....................Aloha
 
still learning said:
Hello, I had mention it many times to our head instructors, good idea but NO.


Tongue Fu, Judo fu and other books like it.... can teach us how not to get into confrontions. Why? Isn't this taught in every martial class?

Many of us do not know about "woofing" and how NOT to react to the words and realize it is an interview on how we are going to react to that person who is "woofing" at us. Prevention is better....this is a thing we must learn


Any Idea's and thoughts on this? ....................Aloha
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That's a real shame. My original instructor always stressed that what was more important than knowing how to fight was knowing how to not have to fight. Seems that too many missed that lesson and can't wait to "test their skills". Live and learn I guess.
 
Many instructors feel that they teach a physical art. Someone teachers soccer or baseball, and they teach Martial Arts. No more, no less. Also many afrait that a student came in to learn how to fight, not how to avoid a fight. If you they don't give a "client" what he came for, the latter will leave. It took me a while to figure this out. A few honest instructors told me it's so.
 
first123class said:
Many instructors feel that they teach a physical art. Someone teachers soccer or baseball, and they teach Martial Arts. No more, no less. Also many afrait that a student came in to learn how to fight, not how to avoid a fight. If you they don't give a "client" what he came for, the latter will leave. It took me a while to figure this out. A few honest instructors told me it's so.
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Yes commercialism is a wonder thing ( is that even a word? :) ). It's the same thing that causes instructors to give belts like candy because people will leave if it's too hard. The same thing that causes instructors to tone down the violence of self-defense training because people think it is too graphic and they leave. The same thing that causes people to think that martial arts is all about fighting, because that's what sells, not the philisophical aspects such as avoidance. Don't you just love commercialism? It adds so much water to the martial arts.....but I don't think that's what they meant when the saying came around "be like water". Sad but true, in alot of cases people are afraid of "selling" the entire art because the "client" is only interested in part of the art. Who knew integrity could be sold for as little as $60-$120 a month? Or is it just you get you what you pay for and you're not interested in paying for lessons on intelligent avoidance of violent encounters? Is it just that you pay for fighting lessons so you can take the bully's place?

By the way this isn't a shot at you. Just my take on the "type of people" you mentioned in your post.

Respectfully,
James
 
Kenpojujitsu3 said:
Yes commercialism is a wonder thing ( is that even a word?
smile.gif
). It's the same thing that causes instructors to give belts like candy because people will leave if it's too hard. The same thing that causes instructors to tone down the violence of self-defense training because people think it is too graphic and they leave. The same thing that causes people to think that martial arts is all about fighting, because that's what sells, not the philisophical aspects such as avoidance. Don't you just love commercialism? It adds so much water to the martial arts.....but I don't think that's what they meant when the saying came around "be like water". Sad but true, in alot of cases people are afraid of "selling" the entire art because the "client" is only interested in part of the art. Who knew integrity could be sold for as little as $60-$120 a month? Or is it just you get you what you pay for and you're not interested in paying for lessons on intelligent avoidance of violent encounters? Is it just that you pay for fighting lessons so you can take the bully's place?


By the way this isn't a shot at you. Just my take on the "type of people" you mentioned in your post.

Respectfully,
James
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I agree with you, no offence taken.
 
Instuctors aren't doing their students any favors by not having some type of conflict resolution and use of force training in today's litigious society. Many people believe that all they have to do is yell self defence and they won't have any legal problems. They truth is that even if you are completely justified in your actions you can still be arrested and sued. In many places citizens who defend themselves with martial arts or weapons are seen as dangerous and criminals are seen as victems of society.

It can even be a problem for the instructor. If undisciplined fatties will sue McDonald's for for making Big Macs taste too good, it isn't a stretch to think an instructor could be sued over the actions of a student.

A fight just doesn't happen. Most martial artist aren't trained to deal with the before and after.
 
I am not so sure that most instructors even know how to de-escelate a situation. I am just learning to get good at it myself, and I am a long way from being good. If it were not for My Wife's training in psychology along with my own I am not sure I would even be getting it. I am acyually glad that there are books out there for those that want to learn how to talk it down.

I agree with the previous posts that we as instructors are looking at students for their desire to learn to fight, but often forget about the how to not fight aspect. We try to give them the skills to physically stop an attacker, but fail to give them the mental and verbal skills to stop them. Most students that are looking for self-defense have already been getting beaten on and they are past the point of talking in their eyes. They want to defeat their aggressors by giving back what they have been receiving. Just my $0.02 worth.
 
Students learning how to control themselves seems to come naturally with time, as they continue to train. With consistent training, they become more disciplined individuals, and it is through this better discipline and mastery of one's self, that they have better control over their own emotions, etc.

In somewhat of a slang term, those students are basically thickening their skins, and learning not to take things as personally as they once did. Let's face it; if I have to sternly and bluntly tell a student that has trained there for a while, to clean up his technique, etc., I know he's not going to break down into tears.

On the other hand, we still emphasize the importance of avoidance, and once in a while, I'll still give a lecture on actions and consequences. The age old question of "is it really worth it dirtying your hands when you could simply avoid the dirt in the first place?" is an important one.

On the other hand of the other hand, though, I'll tell them that if they don't have a choice in the matter, they'd better fight to the best of their ability. If they did what they reasonably could, to avoid the conflict in the first place, then they had better survive first, so they can take the time to explain their justifications later.
 
It's very hard to train in this scenario for several reasons. It takes a certain type of person to actually BE the woofer in the class. Not everyone is cut out to convincingly tell one of their classmates that they are about to stomp a mud-hole in their butt.

Secondly, to make the woofing somewhat realistic foul or abusive language is sometimes a part of it. If you have ANY students in the adult class that are under 18 you'd have to have parental consent for the language or at the very least inform them that that type of training will be taking place.

De-escalation training is an excellent style of training and with the aid of a qualified instructor and some good woofers (bad guys) can help you truly win with out ever throwing a punch. As has already been stated here though, it does seem to come with time for most folks even without the extra training. I guess you get tossed on your backside often enough, punched, kicked and chopped then a few words don't have the same sting.
 
Wild Bill said:
If undisciplined fatties will sue McDonald's for for making Big Macs taste too good, it isn't a stretch to think an instructor could be sued over the actions of a student.
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ROTFLMAO!!!!
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rofl.gif
 
searcher said:
Most students that are looking for self-defense have already been getting beaten on and they are past the point of talking in their eyes. They want to defeat their aggressors by giving back what they have been receiving. Just my $0.02 worth.
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"Is it just that you pay for fighting lessons so you can take the bully's place?"

My thoughts exactly.
 
Grenadier said:
"is it really worth it dirtying your hands when you could simply avoid the dirt in the first place?"
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Can I borrow that one? :)
 
De-escalation can be critical as a defense in court if you have witnesses telling the jury that you did everything in your power to defuse the situation. It makes the aggressor look bad, and you reasonable...and could likely end the confrontation before blows are even thrown.

So too with your kids on the playground. The teachers see a ten year old attempting to calm a kid down during a conflict...later if blows are thrown, who are the teachers going to go after?

Granted, we can't always pull such a thing off. If someone blitzes us, that isn't the time to talk...but I've always been partial to teaching people the concept of "no fight, no blame."


Regards,


Steve
 
Looks like you're received some good answers. IMO, this is something that lacks in many schools, but is key training for people. In many RBSD based arts, you will find that this training is done on a regular basis. Peyton Quinn is one that does this. I have to agree with theletch1 and his post. Having the right people, equipment, etc. to do this is very important in order to create that proper mindset.

Mike
 
Hello, Thank-you for sharing your thoughts on this topic!

My personal feelings is this " Everyone needs to learn how to talk there way out of trouble" This is something that has to be taught by a knowledgable person. Best to make the mistakes in class then the streets/bars and so on...

Every art should make a portion of their class, role playing (woofing bad words are not needed) tone and action of voice may work. Isn't martial arts about avoiding and awareness? Building good charcter thru our training?

Where does most fights start from?

Thanks and Aloha
 
I think I may have answered tow questions at once when I relpyed to your thread asking about preventable fights or something along those lines.


Thanks

San
 
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