Unlock Your Kua : Why Bone Structure Limits Your Range of Motion

[Marsha Larts]

This is why I focus my teaching on foundation. Balance, posture, coordination. It takes courage and patience to find virtuous harmony, but that is the only way that I know of.

Foundation is all that remains if the testing is thorough enough.

What is virtuous harmony in that instance?

 

[Marsha Larts]

It might be interesting to look at what seem like similarities, and what are actually fundamental differences.

Both activities "sports/IMA" use the phrase “whole-body power,” do they mean the same thing?
Or are they pointing to two very different processes?

If not interesting, it would be fun to look at what us mortals know and can share from our less-than-elite abilities and understanding of the examples that have been offered up so far.

I'd start by saying most assuredly - to my thinking - that they are two very different processes.

 

[everything2]

if we claim IMA has significant overlap with EMA, and EMA/combat sports are part of sports, then "whole body power" should work in a similar way to any application moving a body or object with force and accuracy, but clearly we can see if a pitcher borrows from javelin as well as from conventional baseball pitching, the "whole body power" becomes slightly different, so it's not so clear just in one specific sports example. if we say there is something different, it's more difficult. What is happening on the "inside" isn't visible like in those sports examples. we can see movements so it's easy to assume whatever movement we see is "it".

 

[windwalker099114 144]

if we claim IMA has significant overlap with EMA, and EMA/combat sports are part of sports, then "whole body power" should work in a similar way to any application moving a body or object with force and accuracy, but clearly we can see if a pitcher borrows from javelin as well as from conventional baseball pitching, the "whole body power" becomes slightly different, so it's not so clear just in one specific sports example. if we say there is something different, it's more difficult. What is happening on the "inside" isn't visible like in those sports examples. we can see movements so it's easy to assume whatever movement we see is "it".

From the outside, EMA and IMA can look very similar. The terms overlap, the movements overlap, and both talk about “whole-body power.” It’s easy to assume they work the same way.

In most external training, whole-body power comes from coordinating the muscles, hips, and torso in a strong sequence. It’s very efficient and very visible.

Internal methods aren’t built on a sequence in that way.

The body is connected as an integrated whole, more like current running through a wire. The ground, kua, spine, and hand aren’t separate steps — they’re already linked. The expression can appear wherever the mind directs it, at exactly the moment it’s needed.

Six Harmonies (六合) outlines coordination .
The hand just one part of the coordinated whole — guided by the mind so the release shows up at a specific point in time. A bit like hearing a musical note: people hear the sound, but not the many things that lined up to produce it.



From the outside, internal and external movement can look almost identical. That’s why many assume the visible action is the whole story. But the internal feel — the jin — works differently.

With the people I work with, the biggest difference they notice is that they don’t feel any pushing force from me when they move.

Common demo, used to illustrate the process...


No shove, no wind-up, nothing muscular to track. Chinese systems describe this through different types of jin (劲), which is also why demos showing this can look odd to people. Without the usual cues, it’s easy to think nothing is happening.

 

[Wing Woo Gar49 10]

Foundation is all that remains if the testing is thorough enough.

What is virtuous harmony in that instance?

In this instance, removing conflict in the body. We talk about how all war is deception, the character for war can be construed as a resolution of conflict. Thus, we cannot resolve conflict without until we resolve all conflict within, we call this moving in virtuous harmony.

 

[Wing Woo Gar49 10]

if we claim IMA has significant overlap with EMA, and EMA/combat sports are part of sports, then "whole body power" should work in a similar way to any application moving a body or object with force and accuracy, but clearly we can see if a pitcher borrows from javelin as well as from conventional baseball pitching, the "whole body power" becomes slightly different, so it's not so clear just in one specific sports example. if we say there is something different, it's more difficult. What is happening on the "inside" isn't visible like in those sports examples. we can see movements so it's easy to assume whatever movement we see is "it".

I will go one step beyond that. A pitcher “pitches” a ball, a javelier “throws” a javelin, I say I “shoot” the punch, rather than throw it. There is a fundamental difference unless my hand comes off like a missile…

 

[Wing Woo Gar49 10]

if we claim IMA has significant overlap with EMA, and EMA/combat sports are part of sports, then "whole body power" should work in a similar way to any application moving a body or object with force and accuracy, but clearly we can see if a pitcher borrows from javelin as well as from conventional baseball pitching, the "whole body power" becomes slightly different, so it's not so clear just in one specific sports example. if we say there is something different, it's more difficult. What is happening on the "inside" isn't visible like in those sports examples. we can see movements so it's easy to assume whatever movement we see is "it".

Easy to assume…

 

[Marsha Larts]

From the outside, EMA and IMA can look very similar. The terms overlap, the movements overlap, and both talk about “whole-body power.” It’s easy to assume they work the same way.

In most external training, whole-body power comes from coordinating the muscles, hips, and torso in a strong sequence. It’s very efficient and very visible.

Internal methods aren’t built on a sequence in that way.

The body is connected as an integrated whole, more like current running through a wire. The ground, kua, spine, and hand aren’t separate steps — they’re already linked. The expression can appear wherever the mind directs it, at exactly the moment it’s needed.

Six Harmonies (六合) outlines coordination .
The hand just one part of the coordinated whole — guided by the mind so the release shows up at a specific point in time. A bit like hearing a musical note: people hear the sound, but not the many things that lined up to produce it.



From the outside, internal and external movement can look almost identical. That’s why many assume the visible action is the whole story. But the internal feel — the jin — works differently.

With the people I work with, the biggest difference they notice is that they don’t feel any pushing force from me when they move.

Common demo, used to illustrate the process...


No shove, no wind-up, nothing muscular to track. Chinese systems describe this through different types of jin (劲), which is also why demos showing this can look odd to people. Without the usual cues, it’s easy to think nothing is happening.

I like that, but it is not a method I know much about. Have felt it and can recognize it, and have had it explained in much the same way that you've explained it here.

 

[Marsha Larts]

In this instance, removing conflict in the body. We talk about how all war is deception, the character for war can be construed as a resolution of conflict. Thus, we cannot resolve conflict without until we resolve all conflict within, we call this moving in virtuous harmony.

Thanks, yes. We are our worst enemy.

 

[windwalker099114 144]

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts — different perspectives always interesting .


The OP posted:

“Ever wonder why you can't achieve deep stretches or struggle with hip flexibility despite your best efforts? … your bone structure—like the depth and orientation of your hip socket—dictates your range of motion… the shape of your pelvis and femur influences your ability to bend, stretch, and move, and no amount of practice can overcome these anatomical limits.”

Reference:

A solid discussion about range of motion (ROM) and the anatomical limits that come from the structure of the hip joint. Many things come into play when trying to increase ROM.


ROM is very different from what we mean by opening the joints (开关节) in internal martial arts.

A ballerina or gymnast can have enormous range of motion —
that does not mean the joints are “open” in the Taiji sense.

Often they’re:

• extremely flexible
• but not connected
• and sometimes overly loose in ways that break whole-body integration

ROM has more to do with stretching tissues.
Opening a joint has more to do with removing internal compression and aligning the structure so force can pass through.

You can open a joint while standing almost still.

For example:

• Opening the kua in zhan zhuang
• The external movement might be millimeters
• But internally it changes everything — the load path, the pressure, the ability to transmit jin

Opening = releasing + aligning
ROM = stretching + moving farther


Different goals.

Took me a while to accept this

Most of my earlier practices followed the more external, ROM-based model — trying to “open” the body by stretching more, pushing deeper, trying to create more outward movement.

Over time I had to shift my approach.

As with many things, depends on ones focus...
training goals.

 

[Appledog50 3]

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts — different perspectives always interesting .

Here's one more!

Because, fundamentally, there are many ways to get a "look" but chasing "look" is not chasing "look". In short, if you can't tell the difference between a good look and a bad look, it's not a bad look unless you give a bad look, but all of that is just a state of mind. If you're open (to looking, that is) then this becomes about something else. Could it be, Bruce KF's etheric field?

Well.. let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Yes it's also about hamstrings. Yes it's also about adductors. And yes, it's about bones. It's about a lot of things. And yes, it's even about look, if you want the truth.

If you can't see the heretic field without Qi Kan and you say it's not about chasing a look, you probably need to explain what you are talking about because it is in fact about chasing a look -- just maybe not a look you have ever seen before. And in fact, without seeing it done you will not even realize it is possible to even attempt.

In this next video BKF makes several direct connections between habits which decrease the flow of chi leading directly to aging, and how reversing this with qigong and proper energy management can prolong life:

One of the major advancements of qigong is to remove the genetics of bone structure from damaging your energy flow and your etheric field.

In fact, some kinds of advanced qigong can even reshape the very bones themselves, to create.... life.

Anyways, some interesting videos if you're into that sort of thing.

A solid discussion about range of motion (ROM) and the anatomical limits that come from the structure of the hip joint. Many things come into play when trying to increase ROM.

You can go to academia or you can go to the source. You will find each side tells a different story, but only one of them knows kung fu. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Different goals.

Took me a while to accept this

Isn't it? Did you know they actually added moves from interpretive dance to some competition wushu forms in the 2000s? Weird.

 

[Kung Fu Wang114 144]

Both activities "sports/IMA" use the phrase “whole-body power,” do they mean the same thing?
Or are they pointing to two very different processes?

If you train both

- boxing and Taiji at the same time, when you punch on your heavy bag, how does your punch may look like?
- TKD and Taiji at the same time, when you kick on your heavy bag, how does your kick may look like?

 

[windwalker099114 144]

If you train both

- boxing and Taiji at the same time, when you punch on your heavy bag, how does your punch may look like?

If you’re hitting or kicking a heavy bag, which Taiji skill are you applying — and how are you defining it?
What part of Taiji do you believe shows up on a bag?

- TKD and Taiji at the same time, when you kick on your heavy bag, how does your kick may look like?

Some people assume that training TKD or other arts, and Taiji at the same time means the Taiji will automatically show up when they kick or punch a heavy bag. In reality, Taiji can support their other practices , in most cases the mechanics don’t carry back into Taiji skills. They develop in different ways.

 

[Kung Fu Wang114 144]

If you train both

- boxing and Taiji at the same time, when you punch on your heavy bag, how does your punch may look like?

If you’re hitting or kicking a heavy bag, which Taiji skill are you applying — and how are you defining it?
What part of Taiji do you believe shows up on a bag?

I ask you a question. You ask me back the same question.

 

[windwalker099114 144]

I ask you a question. You ask me back the same question.

It’s not the same.

You asked about bag work — something I don’t train now.
What I asked you was simple:

What Taiji skill do you think is being used on a heavy bag?

In sports, power comes from a sequential kinetic chain.
In IMA, movement is led by mind-intention — the mind leads the qi, the qi moves the body, and the body expresses jin, an integrated, non-sequential force.
The body is conducting force, not generating it through muscular sequencing.

When we talk of whole body force, or power it's in relation to the six harmonies being expressed.
Not a kinetic chain

 

[Kung Fu Wang114 144]

In IMA, movement is led by mind-intention — the mind leads the qi, the qi moves the body, and the body expresses jin, an integrated, non-sequential force.
The body is conducting force, not generating it through muscular sequencing.

What I asked you was simple: What Taiji skill do you think is being used on a heavy bag?

You have assumed Yi ->Qi -> Li only applied in "internal" MA. I think it also applies in external MA as well.

The external MA compress -> release is exactly the same as the "internal" MA Yi -> Qi -> Li.

- During the compressing stage, your Yi is involved.
- At the end of compressing stage and the beginning of releasing stage, you Qi starts to flow.
- During the releasing stage, your Li start to be generated.

In this video, can you see (or feel) Yi -> Qi -> Li?

His punch has 3 stages:

1. Raise leading leg (Yi) - compress.
2. Step down leading leg (Qi) - end of compress and beginning of release.
3. Step in back leg (Li) - release.

This is exactly how I punch my heavy bag (or Weavemaster).

 

[Fungus103 1]

This clip helps in understanding the underlying structures that may limit one's range of motion..

Nice animation videos!

I have also encountered the attitude that "just stretch daily and you'll get there"... and the feeling is that yes i can improve a few %, but certain things just dont work.

Also as a proof, having a odd aligned socket, when you will be superior in other motions. I myself, outperform even those stretching for 30 years in certain movements, and 2to get there" I have done nothing! It's just the way i am made.

So it seems unquestionable that while stretching your muscles is important and helps, the constraints of your bone sockets are hard constraints, and pushing their limits isn't wise.

I end up picking the techniques that are optimal to my sockets, and get better at them, rather than try to train the kicks I am obviously not optimized for.

 

[Badhabits]

I don't understand a lot of what's being discussed here, but still an interesting conversation. In dogs specifically bred for work, the shape of the hip sockets play such an important role in the dogs ability to move, good breeders breed specifically for well shaped hip sockets, how well the ligaments hold the bone/socket together etc. You won't find a good breeder that doesn't have the hips x-rayed and rated in their breeding dogs. There's a whole rating system built around it. If the hips, elbows etc don't rate well enough they won't even breed that dog. The idea being its movement will be limited or the dog could "break down" doing it's work.

 

[Appledog50 3]

I don't understand a lot of what's being discussed here, but still an interesting conversation. In dogs specifically bred for work, the shape of the hip sockets play such an important role in the dogs ability to move, good breeders breed specifically for well shaped hip sockets, how well the ligaments hold the bone/socket together etc. You won't find a good breeder that doesn't have the hips x-rayed and rated in their breeding dogs. There's a whole rating system built around it. If the hips, elbows etc don't rate well enough they won't even breed that dog. The idea being its movement will be limited or the dog could "break down" doing it's work.

Hip socket shape depends on genetics but it also depends on loading. In infants, the hip joint is mostly cartilage. The shape ossifies gradually over the ten years and remains generally moldable until puberty. During this period, loading (weight bearing) creates the the mechanical forces needed for the hip socket to deepen and orient correctly. Lack of mechanical loading can lead to a shallower or less stable socket. This is why babies born with hip dysplasia are treated with devices that hold the hip in a specific angle — the bones literally grow into that position. This confirms with Wolff's law.

There are two major developmental angles. The depth and tilt of the socket, which is influenced as above, and the angles of the femur (it's twist and neck angle). These are both demonstrated in OP video 2. These angles change as chidlren grow and are influenced by activities such as running, climbing, squatting, and so forth. Children with sedentary lifestyles often develop lower range of motion and ingrain habits such as intoeing and altered gait patterns into their bone structure.

TL;DR? It's not genetics. But it LOOKS like genetics because of the amount of work you need to do to fix it.

The million dollar question

Since we know it's not genetics, can it be reversed? Yes. First, the bad news. It's like astronauts in space. Ten years of bad childhood can take fifty years of adulthood to repair. But you can do it. In fact, the entire point of all this stuff we are doing is to reverse it.

My sifu said, in the old days, you can look at someone and know what they did for a living. I asked him why you can't do it now, the answer surprised me. He said it's not that you can't, but people stopped looking. They forgot how to look. So they don't even think it is possible anymore. As for us, today; This is probably why so many people have such a problem getting chi gan, their bones are blocking their chi! This is probably the reason why. Look at the posture. Have they lived their life behind a desk, writing and typing? Is their neck bent forward?

There is a Japanese word I like to use for things like this, because I like to play Go.. the word is.. aji

 

[windwalker099114 144]

I don't understand a lot of what's being discussed here, but still an interesting conversation.

Yes it is — and thanks again to everyone.
Within CMA there is an important distinction between internal and external practices, especially in how they develop and express a type of force called jin (劲).

All CMA share the same cultural roots, the methods of training are different.

Some lines emphasize internal development, some maintain external mechanics, and some blend elements over generations.
These distinctions aren’t about good or bad — they exist so people understand what is being trained, how it develops, and what kind of result it leads to.

A lot of the modern confusion comes from teachers who add Taiji on top of another art without following the older internal methods. When internal and external approaches get mixed intentionally or not, people often don’t get the results the traditional training was meant to produce.

Not really a problem unless someone is genuinely looking for the deeper skill sets the old masters talked about.
If they are, then a great deal of time can be wasted developing the wrong qualities for the outcome they want.

Even within Yang style, the major branches developed different approaches.
The sons and close disciples of Yang Luchan emphasized different aspects, which is why Yang Chengfu’s big-frame method, Yang Shaohou’s small-frame method, the Banhou line, the Tian Zhaolin line, and the Dong family line all look and train differently today.

The variety we see now is the result of many parallel developments —
not one single unified method — which is why discussions like this can seem complex.