Unlock Your Kua : Why Bone Structure Limits Your Range of Motion

[Kung Fu Wang115 145]

Seeing the video you posted (This looks a lot like Tantui #5) I was surprised that you used a toes push kick. Do you find toe push kicks more effective in this case?

In the long fist system, during the beginner level training such as "Tantui", it doesn't train toes push kick. The toes push kick training start from the intermediate level training such as the "Pao Quan #3".

I don't like to kick with my toes (with shoes or without shoes). I also think the heel kick is too short. So, the toes push kick is the only valid front kick application for me.

GM Han used Toes push kick in his Tantui. But that's the intermediate training applied in beginner form. In this video, you can see his front kick is a "downward curve" which is very hard to do. He could raise his knee so high before he kicked out. There was a lot of flexibility requirement there.

 

[everything3]

We just call it smoke break

lol making it look super easy! yes, as ww said, it may not be "normal" for some and very normal for others. many complementary exercises seem to be slowly getting me closer to this and the Skandasana (or whatever the side pistol squat thing is called) - if i move through that in tai chi form i keep it super low mobility (due to knee cartilage care). the main exercise helping me along seems to be the "ATG split squat" done in a super "regressed way" - i put my forward leg on an elevated surface like a chair, table, or bed such that that leg is bent as in asian squat; other leg is behind stretching hip flexors and so on. only going as far as possible without tension, slowly it gets easier. then I realized it's "half the asian squat" and realized I can almost do asian squat without working on it at all. but of course that makes sense since i work each side separately for totally different reasons - the asian squat is not a "goal" on its own, it's just an example. another one I cannot do to much of an extent is yoga's downward dog. also not a "goal" but if i happen to slowly be able to do it as a side effect from working on mobility in other ways, I'll be pleasantly surprised. there is a book I was reading recently called Yoga for the Inflexible Male - the "modifications" are kind of sad and hilarious and exactly suited for me.

 

[everything3]

lol making it look super easy! yes, as ww said, it may not be "normal" for some and very normal for others. many complementary exercises seem to be slowly getting me closer to this and the Skandasana (or whatever the side pistol squat thing is called) - if i move through that in tai chi form i keep it super low mobility (due to knee cartilage care). the main exercise helping me along seems to be the "ATG split squat" done in a super "regressed way" - i put my forward leg on an elevated surface like a chair, table, or bed such that that leg is bent as in asian squat; other leg is behind stretching hip flexors and so on. only going as far as possible without tension, slowly it gets easier. then I realized it's "half the asian squat" and realized I can almost do asian squat without working on it at all. but of course that makes sense since i work each side separately for totally different reasons - the asian squat is not a "goal" on its own, it's just an example. another one I cannot do to much of an extent is yoga's downward dog. also not a "goal" but if i happen to slowly be able to do it as a side effect from working on mobility in other ways, I'll be pleasantly surprised. there is a book I was reading recently called Yoga for the Inflexible Male - the "modifications" are kind of sad and hilarious and exactly suited for me. maybe "freedom and joy of movement" to the extent structurally possible is the "goal". going from 0.1 to 0.2 feels pretty good.

 

[Appledog51 4]

lol making it look super easy! yes, as ww said, it may not be "normal" for some and very normal for others. many complementary exercises seem to be slowly getting me closer to this and the Skandasana (or whatever the side pistol squat thing is called) - if i move through that in tai chi form i keep it super low mobility (due to knee cartilage care). the main exercise helping me along seems to be the "ATG split squat" done in a super "regressed way" - i put my forward leg on an elevated surface like a chair, table, or bed such that that leg is bent as in asian squat; other leg is behind stretching hip flexors and so on. only going as far as possible without tension, slowly it gets easier. then I realized it's "half the asian squat" and realized I can almost do asian squat without working on it at all. but of course that makes sense since i work each side separately for totally different reasons - the asian squat is not a "goal" on its own, it's just an example. another one I cannot do to much of an extent is yoga's downward dog. also not a "goal" but if i happen to slowly be able to do it as a side effect from working on mobility in other ways, I'll be pleasantly surprised. there is a book I was reading recently called Yoga for the Inflexible Male - the "modifications" are kind of sad and hilarious and exactly suited for me.

Here, let me make it easy for you.

Arjuna, the third brother of the Pandava clan, was a great archer. He was reputedly the best in the world. He used his bow, Gandiva, so dexterously that he could shoot an arrow and then hit it with a second arrow before it had finished its flight. Once he was walking by himself and went further than he intended. He came to a village where there were signs of an extraordinary bowman. There were painted targets everywhere — on the boles of trees, on the sides of barns, hanging on poles in the middle of fields. And, there was an arrow spang in the center of every one of them. It was always in the bullseye and many bullseyes were so tiny that the arrowhead was larger.

Arjuna noted one target that was wrapped around the corner of a shed and the small bullseye was correspondingly bent and made even tinier. But, even here, the incomparable archer had hit it dead center and his arrow was held in place by a splinter it had dislodged. Arjuna took the Gandiva off his back and strung it. He took an arrow from his quiver and sighted it carefully before loosing it. He missed. But it was such a narrow miss that the wind from its passing knocked the other arrow down. Arjuna knew he had to meet this extraordinary marksman!

He came back the next day in the evening, when the villagers had come back from the fields, and made inquiries. The villagers gladly pointed out the bowman. He turned out to be a young lad, barely out of his teens, and quite scrawny. “How,” Arjuna asked him with great respect, “Do you shoot so accurately? Many years have I practiced but I cannot match your performance.” “Its easy,” said the boy and willingly shared his secret. He shot the arrow first and then drew the target around it.

And, right there, is a lesson for us.

Let me make it easy for you.

You see, someone else has already done the hard work. And what they did, is they gave us a gift. They painted the target around the arrow. Now, you don't know if the arrow struck it's mark. That part, you have to have faith. Do you really believe that Chinese Martial Arts doesn't work? Is your goal -- your target -- to learn Chinese Martial Arts? Then I will tell you, it is very easy to do. We have the target, all we must do is aim our own arrow at it.

This is 85%.

maybe 88%

This is 90%. I like this exercise because it is a repeatable sequence and easy to do gentle range of motion training with it. This is a good starting point, just do this and don't push yourself too hard. Just do what feels comfortable. If it isn't comfortable for you to do, don't do it.

96%

Ma Hong's demo would get 98% except that he pauses for the sake of teaching. I have seen 98, it looks like a bird swooping down and the front foot is straight. Most people will never be able to replicate this move.

Yang style is exactly the same:

I am not sure what to rate Yang as I have not done properly in quite a while but this looks to be 94%+ --> Notice how Yang Jun's front foot is pointing forward, he is balanced on the rear leg, and also able to push forward onto his front leg. As with the last example, most people will never be able to perform this move at this level. It is deceptively difficult and can take years of training.

The reason for these requirements is that the front leg must be neutral and relaxed or the mind will not be able to transfer weight onto the leg without encountering a qi blockage. If the hip is closed at the back position this is a qi blockage and you will have to correct it before you push forward. This makes fajing or the expression of any of the 13 energies impossible.

 

[Marsha Larts]

When you stand like this, you should lift your heels up and only stand on the ball of your feet. This way, you can enhance your toes push kick.

That isn't me in the pic. My shoulders are further behind my knees in the Slavic squat these days.

The Asian squat has more to do with work-a-day functionality than martial, but the martial is always there. The Slavic squat also has martial roots, but it's mostly a posture of leisure these days.

I prefer heels down whenever possible while doing groundwork.

Your push kick looks very similar to one of the Shan Zhan step drills I was shown. Shan Zhan is more along the lines of what GM Han is showing in the other clip you posted.

 

[Marsha Larts]

lol making it look super easy! yes, as ww said, it may not be "normal" for some and very normal for others. many complementary exercises seem to be slowly getting me closer to this and the Skandasana (or whatever the side pistol squat thing is called) - if i move through that in tai chi form i keep it super low mobility (due to knee cartilage care). the main exercise helping me along seems to be the "ATG split squat" done in a super "regressed way" - i put my forward leg on an elevated surface like a chair, table, or bed such that that leg is bent as in asian squat; other leg is behind stretching hip flexors and so on. only going as far as possible without tension, slowly it gets easier. then I realized it's "half the asian squat" and realized I can almost do asian squat without working on it at all. but of course that makes sense since i work each side separately for totally different reasons - the asian squat is not a "goal" on its own, it's just an example. another one I cannot do to much of an extent is yoga's downward dog. also not a "goal" but if i happen to slowly be able to do it as a side effect from working on mobility in other ways, I'll be pleasantly surprised. there is a book I was reading recently called Yoga for the Inflexible Male - the "modifications" are kind of sad and hilarious and exactly suited for me.

Good that you're making progress and rehabbing/reclaiming RoM - or maintaining leastwise.

Opening and closing the kua actually has nothing to do with long and low. Long and low is on the margins of Wushu and the demonstration/preservation of form - a departure from what real functionality entails. Its power and utility can be developed in a small RoM that doesn't need a lot of space to be effective for taiji boxing, or just as a health practice.

 

[windwalker099115 145]

That isn't me in the pic. My shoulders are further behind my knees in the Slavic squat these days.

Cool picture.

I’ve found that judging function by range of motion can be misleading.
When the range becomes the goal, the function often disappears.

In my own Taiji work I used to use a particular kind of squat as an introduction —
heels down, no forward lean, shoulders stacked over the hips.
The real challenge wasn’t the depth, but handling all the center-of-gravity changes internally.
(A simple test: try squatting with your back just touching a wall — without leaning on it.)

Even in Taiwan, where squatting is part of daily life, most people couldn’t do it this way.
It showed them that something which looks simple is not necessarily easy.

Eventually I stopped using it, because people began chasing the shape instead of the function.
Examining my own practice, found indirectly I was doing the same the more we try to “achieve the look,”
the further we move from the internal qualities the posture was meant to reveal. Not trying actually revealed it..
Took me a little while to figure it out

Opening the kua is the same — it develops naturally through correct training.
It shouldn’t be forced or measured by outward appearance,
The function comes from inside, the posture an expression of it...

 

[Marsha Larts]

Cool picture.

I’ve found that judging function by range of motion can be misleading.
When the range becomes the goal, the function often disappears.

In my own Taiji work I used to use a particular kind of squat as an introduction —
heels down, no forward lean, shoulders stacked over the hips.
The real challenge wasn’t the depth, but handling all the center-of-gravity changes internally.
(A simple test: try squatting with your back just touching a wall — without leaning on it.)

Even in Taiwan, where squatting is part of daily life, most people couldn’t do it this way.
It showed them that something which looks simple is not necessarily easy.

Eventually I stopped using it, because people began chasing the shape instead of the function.
Examining my own practice, found indirectly I was doing the same the more we try to “achieve the look,”
the further we move from the internal qualities the posture was meant to reveal. Not trying actually revealed it..
Took me a little while to figure it out

Opening the kua is the same — it develops naturally through correct training.
It shouldn’t be forced or measured by outward appearance,
The function comes from inside, the posture an expression of it...

Yes - shoulders stacked over the hips. My Yang style teacher called it, "sitting inside yourself". It's one of the body skills developed in the Polishing Mirror exercise from the Nine Temple Qigong set.

It all comes back to what you call The Look. Understanding the function of kua is realizing how unimportant 'the look' is. One of the reasons why the exercise I outlined is so useful - not being able to do it is often as effective as being able to do it.

 

[Appledog51 4]

Cool picture.

I’ve found that judging function by range of motion can be misleading.
When the range becomes the goal, the function often disappears.

I call it the yogification of Tai Chi. People chase range of motion but forget the functional strength.

In my own Taiji work I used to use a particular kind of squat as an introduction —
heels down, no forward lean, shoulders stacked over the hips.
The real challenge wasn’t the depth, but handling all the center-of-gravity changes internally.
(A simple test: try squatting with your back just touching a wall — without leaning on it.)

Sounds a lot like 'Monk Sits Down', a posture in Wang Ziping's 20 qigong. You may have seen it before as one of Liang Tzu-Peng's three treasures.

"In Hong Kong Liang taught Lok Hup Ba Fa (六合八法) and Yi-quan. His main training methods were the “Three Treasures of Southern Yiquan” (南派意拳): the standing postures (Zhan zhuang) (站樁 – Stand like a Stake), the don-yu (蹲腰), and the tor-yu (拖腰), which includes Push Hands (Tui-shou 推手). When Liang was asked to teach by the JingWu, he taught the three treasures. For the first year he taught don-yu; for the second, tor-yu, and for the third, the standing postures. This kind of focused training, which required great dedication from the students, was not unusual in former times."

 

[Kung Fu Wang115 145]

The 4-6 stance is the best stance to open the Kua. The transition from 4-6 stance into bow arrow stance is the best training for power generation - back leg bend -> back leg straight.

 

[Same Trick60 11]

Sumotoris do great squat and they do have great Qi-bellies, yeah the connection is clear

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[Marsha Larts]

Sumotoris do great squat and they do have great Qi-bellies, yeah the connection is clear

sumo wrestlers rituals - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

cn.bing.com

It's more clear than you might realize, or care to know. Hinted at it in the Curb Their Enthusiasm thread to see if anyone would notice.

And you're right about them fishing and then affirming what they pretend to suddenly understand. It's written all over this thread.

 

[windwalker099115 145]

@Kung Fu Wang

Nice image — wondering if you created it?
If so, was it done freehand or with a program?

Have been using ChatGPT to create similar diagrams.
Here’s one it generated to show the difference between internal jin and external force:

Dark Blue (internal): ground → rear foot → kua → spine → hand — one continuous line.
Connected to ground

Light Blue (external): arcs of travel, segmented.
Red horizontal, no ground connection

Helpful for explaining different methods of power generation.

 

[Wing Woo Gar50 11]

Agree.

re: the body organizing itself is something that isn't discussed very often - if ever - in finding out what the body already knows before, as you say, "the mind chases a look".

Stability is the foundation of foundational training.

This is why I focus my teaching on foundation. Balance, posture, coordination. It takes courage and patience to find virtuous harmony, but that is the only way that I know of.

 

[everything3]

The 4-6 stance is the best stance to open the Kua. The transition from 4-6 stance into bow arrow stance is the best training for power generation - back leg bend -> back leg straight.

View attachment 33540

View attachment 33539

I guess this transition (to bow stance) example has some of the same idea behind the training pitcher Yamamoto uses. more strength at the farthest range of motion somehow helps with having some power in much shorter ranges of motion as well. of course in the application of pitching he has a lot of spine and arm movements in here as well. might be interesting from a "throwing a hand held traditional weapon" such as a spear point of view.

 

[everything3]

the javelin throw (surely from martial arts / martial usage, originally) mechanics. it would be probably more interesting to me if they didn't throw for distance but threw for a bow and arrow style target accuracy over a long distance.

 

[HighKick]

the javelin throw (surely from martial arts / martial usage, originally) mechanics. it would be probably more interesting to me if they didn't throw for distance but threw for a bow and arrow style target accuracy over a long distance.

Surely you jest on the origins, but that would be an interesting competition.

 

[everything3]

Surely you jest on the origins, but that would be an interesting competition.

surely many olympic sports all came from combat (or hunting) origins - wrestling, taekwondo, boxing, fencing, javelin, archery, etc., etc., plus some rifle and pistol - AI answer from Google:


Fencing Evolved from historical European swordsmanship and dueling in the 19th century. Featured at the first modern Olympics in 1896, and has been a part of every Games since.
Archery Developed from the use of bows and arrows for both hunting and combat, with evidence going back over 9,000 years. First appeared at the 1900 Games but was absent from some later Olympics due to a lack of standard rules. It returned permanently in 1972 after standardized rules were established.
Javelin A light spear used in ancient times for hunting and as a ranged weapon in warfare. Included in the Ancient Olympic Games as part of the pentathlon as early as 708 BC. It was added to the modern Olympics in 1908.

 

[everything3]

Surely you jest on the origins, but that would be an interesting competition.

and yeah I think it'd be so fun to try, albeit I'm now mostly quite terrible at throwing all kinds of objects with accuracy. Especially at amusement parks and state fairs where you have to throw the basketball, baseball, dart, or ping pong ball. Yeah they're rigged, but I think my wife does way better at them all (with zero experience at related sports). Saw probably an ex college baseball pitcher breaking every plate at one of those throw-baseball games. Amazing to see that ability up close. Ok, ok, getting back to IMA ...

 

[windwalker099115 145]

Ok, ok, getting back to IMA .

It might be interesting to look at what seem like similarities, and what are actually fundamental differences.

Both activities "sports/IMA" use the phrase “whole-body power,” do they mean the same thing?
Or are they pointing to two very different processes?