UFC proves KF useless

[drop bear]

I'm sure he would. He's made it a personal goal of his to separate himself from his Bjj background in order to more effectively market himself. I don't think you can really separate submission wrestling from Bjj. The two are intrinsically connected on many levels because Bjj is the most popular form of it.



Go for what?

the no gi black belt. Check out the video. A lot of traditional bjjers hate the idea.

 

[Hanzou]

Based upon that what do you consider Shotokan and several of the other Karate systems that have come about in the early to mid 1900's and have evolved since. How about Muay Thai or Pekiti-Tirsia Kali, traditional or no?

Shotokan is a modern style of karate. Muay Thai is a modern MA as well.

Someone performs a roundhouse kick contacting with their shin are they doing muay thai or Munda Muda or is it pekiti-tirsia or something else? Someone does a hip throw is it Dumog or is it Judo or JJ. Someone performs a shoulder lock are the doing BJJ or Wing Chun, or pekiti-tirsia, or Dumog or Silat, or maybe they are doing Pankration.
Just curious.

I would need to see the technique being performed to know for sure. For example, you say "shoulder lock", are they performing a shoulder lock like this;

Or are they performing a shoulder lock like this;

In any case if someone is telling me they're doing Bjj techniques, I'll assume they're doing Bjj.

 

[qianfeng]

Hanzou why do you have to find the most retarded videos of tma?
Is it really that hard to find something better than jake mace?

Choy lee fut vs seven star praying mantis

 

[Hanzou]

The Hayastan system is a blend of judo, sambo, catch/Greco-Roman/ and freestyle wrestling.

It doesn't need BJJ, because it has Judo.

Again, the irony is hilarious. You telling me what the training under Gene LeBell and Gokor consists of...

Judo+Sambo+Catch= Bjj.

I suppose that even that wasn't enough for Ronda though, since she also went to Eddie Bravo, the Menedes Bros, and then the Gracies for further Bjj training.

Yes, quite ironic.

 

[Hanzou]

Hanzou why do you have to find the most retarded videos of tma?
Is it really that hard to find something better than jake mace?

I really didn't know that Jake Mace was such a terrible example. My mistake.

I do find that video very interesting though.

 

[qianfeng]

I really didn't know that Jake Mace was such a terrible example. My mistake.

I do find that video very interesting though.

Haha it's alright if u didn't know about jake mace, I don't know how he gets so many views...
If read the comments people who actually practice the style in his video they call him out for his terrible imitations of said style but still people watch and believe...

 

[Tez3]

I'm not sure how anyone can disagree with me about Bisping, it's on his OWN website lol. I also know because he told us because he had his pro debut on one of our shows and we needed to know what his experience was before we matched him. And here's the video of a very young Bisping.

 

[elder999]

Judo+Sambo+Catch= Bjj.

And there it is, for everyone to see-Hanzou makes one and one and one into five, not three!

I suppose that even that wasn't enough for Ronda though, since she also went to Eddie Bravo, the Menedes Bros, and then the Gracies for further Bjj training.

Here's a tip for you: some martial artists actually enjoy getting together and training with others, from time to time-doesn't mean they're "training" or "getting further training," just that they're rolling around and having some fun.

I mean, really.

and pay attention to what Cesar Gracie says here at 1:10

Yes, quite ironic.

 

[Chris Parker]

Bisping didn't start with BJJ although he trained it later, he began training in a traditional form of jiujitsu known as Yawara Ryu under Paul Lloyd Davies.

Er…

I'm not sure how anyone can disagree with me about Bisping, it's on his OWN website lol. I also know because he told us because he had his pro debut on one of our shows and we needed to know what his experience was before we matched him. And here's the video of a very young Bisping.

Not wanting to speak for Michael, but I think the question isn't whether or not Bisping trained with "Yawara Ryu", it's the idea that it's a "traditional form of jujutsu"… it ain't. The name alone gives away that it's got little to do with anything traditionally Japanese (despite the idea of them teaching the "traditional Yawara Ryu techniques" etc)… in essence, it's a modern, Western eclectic system based dominantly in early Judo (although the connection is, well, not so easy to determine… lots of name dropping, but that's it… no actual connection to the group, especially considering the decades between the people named dying and the founder being born…), a whole lot of other methods (Ryukyu Kobudo) with no mention of where the methods come from, a Ryu-ha, a lineage, or anything tangible, as well as the ludicrous photo of "sword training", showing the most amateurish "demo" technique that no credible system even considers, and the usage of a Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu video to show "sword techniques" on their webpage, something to which they have no right to claim association.

In any case if someone is telling me they're doing Bjj techniques, I'll assume they're doing Bjj.

Here's a quick question for you, then… what are BJJ techniques? Is a Kimura a BJJ technique? Or an Omoplata? How about an Americana? RNC?

 

[Tez3]

Chris however, whatever it is it isn't BJJ, that was my point. I don't really care what it is but it ain't BJJ specifically coming from Brazil with the Gracie name or any other Brazilian instructor.

 

[Chris Parker]

Chris however, whatever it is it isn't BJJ, that was my point. I don't really care what it is but it ain't BJJ specifically coming from Brazil.

Sure, and no argument that it wasn't BJJ… but it's also not what it says on the tin, as you say…

 

[elder999]

Er…



Not wanting to speak for Michael, but I think the question isn't whether or not Bisping trained with "Yawara Ryu", it's the idea that it's a "traditional form of jujutsu"… it ain't. The name alone gives away that it's got little to do with anything traditionally Japanese (despite the idea of them teaching the "traditional Yawara Ryu techniques" etc)… in essence, it's a modern, Western eclectic system based dominantly in early Judo (although the connection is, well, not so easy to determine… lots of name dropping, but that's it… no actual connection to the group, especially considering the decades between the people named dying and the founder being born…), a whole lot of other methods (Ryukyu Kobudo) with no mention of where the methods come from, a Ryu-ha, a lineage, or anything tangible, as well as the ludicrous photo of "sword training", showing the most amateurish "demo" technique that no credible system even considers, and the usage of a Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu video to show "sword techniques" on their webpage, something to which they have no right to claim association.

Pretty much ignored this.....cause I knew you wouldn't!

Here's a quick question for you, then… what are BJJ techniques? Is a Kimura a BJJ technique? Or an Omoplata? How about an Americana? RNC?

Omoplata? Sounds like a kid's breakfast cereal! Dontcha mean ashi sankaku garami ?That's what we call it in-gasp!-JUDO!!

Kimura? Don't we call that gyaku ude garami....in-gasp!-JUDO?

Americana??? Looks like ude garami again....at least, that's what we call it in-gasp!-JUDO!! [URL='http://www.sherv.net/'] [URL='http://www.sherv.net/'] [URL='http://www.sherv.net/']
[URL='http://www.sherv.net/'][URL='http://www.sherv.net/'][URL='http://www.sherv.net/'][URL='http://www.sherv.net/'][URL='http://www.sherv.net/'][URL='http://www.sherv.net/'][URL='http://www.sherv.net/'][URL='http://www.sherv.net/'][URL='http://www.sherv.net/'][URL='http://www.sherv.net/'][URL='http://www.sherv.net/']
RNC? Rear Naked Choke?? Pretty sure that name comes directly from the Japanese, right? Hadaka jime..."Naked Choke"....at least, that's what we call it in -gasp!!shudder!! JUDO !!

Yeah...Ronda Rousey needed some BJJ training....oh, that's right, she'd been doing Basically Just Judo all her life]. [/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

 

[Chris Parker]

Ah, don't ruin it, Elder… I was waiting for Hanzou to reply so I could show all the various appearances in all these other systems… ha!

For the record, we use names like Oni Kudaki, Ude Ori, Gyaku Oni Kudaki, Musha Dori, Muso Dori, Sankaku Jime…

 

[elder999]

Pretty much ignored this.....cause I knew you wouldn't!





Omoplata? Sounds like a kid's breakfast cereal!

Ah, don't ruin it, Elder… I was waiting for Hanzou to reply so I could show all the various appearances in all these other systems… ha!

For the record, we use names like Oni Kudaki, Ude Ori, Gyaku Oni Kudaki, Musha Dori, Muso Dori, Sankaku Jime…

Yeah, I know that...knew those names from Bujinkan guys, too, back before they were the Bujinkan, anyway....

 

[Tez3]

Sure, and no argument that it wasn't BJJ… but it's also not what it says on the tin, as you say…

You should have seen his first pro fight lol



to be honest I don't think Bisping is all that it says on the tin either lol.

 

[Hanzou]

Here's a quick question for you, then… what are BJJ techniques? Is a Kimura a BJJ technique? Or an Omoplata? How about an Americana? RNC?

Bjj techniques are techniques within the art of Brazilian Jiujitsu. All of those techs you mentioned are Bjj techniques.

 

[Hanzou]

Chris however, whatever it is it isn't BJJ, that was my point. I don't really care what it is but it ain't BJJ specifically coming from Brazil with the Gracie name or any other Brazilian instructor.

Yes, but its quite clear that Bisping trained in Bjj early in his MMA career. Again, the difference between base art, and art you train in.

 

[Chris Parker]

Bjj techniques are techniques within the art of Brazilian Jiujitsu. All of those techs you mentioned are Bjj techniques.

Well, that's the thing… in a way, no, they're not. They're a collection of mechanical actions that are found in myriad arts… it's the way they're trained and applied that makes them "BJJ techniques"… not the techniques themselves. Which was kinda the point…

 

[Hanzou]

Here's a tip for you: some martial artists actually enjoy getting together and training with others, from time to time-doesn't mean they're "training" or "getting further training," just that they're rolling around and having some fun.

Except in those cases Rousey specifically states that she is training in Bjj to improve her ground game in upcoming fights.

 

[Hanzou]

Well, that's the thing… in a way, no, they're not. They're a collection of mechanical actions that are found in myriad arts… it's the way they're trained and applied that makes them "BJJ techniques"… not the techniques themselves. Which was kinda the point…

That's fine. The statement you quoted came from a context where it was very clear what the individual was practicing. My argument was never that Bjj is the only art that houses shoulder locks, armlocks, or chokes. However, the entry point and execution of those techniques tend to be different. For example, while there are shoulder locks in kung fu, very few kung fu styles would execute a shoulder lock from the guard position on their back.