UFC proves KF useless

[Tez3]

Bisping didn't start with BJJ although he trained it later, he began training in a traditional form of jiujitsu known as Yawara Ryu under Paul Lloyd Davies.

 

[Hanzou]

BJJ? Or American JJ? Or Japanese JJ? Or some other form of grappling? Or maybe they pick it up along the way? I mean, where's your statistical support. Let's take a look at some of the top ranked people's backgrounds, shall we?

You can say what you want about statistics, but math doesn't lie.....on the other hand, it seems that every time you set your fingers to the keyboard, Hanzou (yeah, I'm talkin' to you!) something less than true winds up on our screens....I'm not calling you a liar, or anything else-but there is a word for someone who says things they believe to be true that clearly are not.....

You do understand that you got "base" confused with "trained in" right? I never said that every fighter in MMA has a base in Bjj or even a high rank in Bjj, I said every fighter in MMA trains in Bjj before they step into the cage. This includes people who train in MMA gyms, since Bjj is an integral part of MMA itself. In other words, you wouldn't be caught dead in the cage without at least a rudimentary knowledge of Bjj, and all of the fighters you listed have at least that level of knowledge.

However, I do appreciate the ridiculous amount of time and effort that went into your post. Too bad it turned out to be completely irrelevant to the point I made.

 

[Hanzou]

???
Based upon what definition?

Based on the fact that Sanshou is a relatively young art and that its rapidly evolving as it absorbs more styles into its curriculum. That's the antithesis of a traditional martial art.

 

[drop bear]

You do understand that you got "base" confused with "trained in" right? I never said that every fighter in MMA has a base in Bjj or even a high rank in Bjj, I said every fighter in MMA trains in Bjj before they step into the cage. This includes people who train in MMA gyms, since Bjj is an integral part of MMA itself. In other words, you wouldn't be caught dead in the cage without at least a rudimentary knowledge of Bjj, and all of the fighters you listed have at least that level of knowledge.

However, I do appreciate the ridiculous amount of time and effort that went into your post. Too bad it turned out to be completely irrelevant to the point I made.

i would say bjj techniques which is an important distinction. None of us do bjj really. In that we have no affiliation with a bjj club and our coaches blue belt is a pretty nominal one.

submission wrestling would be more accurate.

to say a guy was bjj. I think he would have to grade have some sort of linage and train in a gi.

 

[Hanzou]

i would say bjj techniques which is an important distinction. None of us do bjj really. In that we have no affiliation with a bjj club and our coaches blue belt is a pretty nominal one.

That's quite an interesting distinction. You don't do Bjj but you do Bjj techniques? Wouldn't performing Bjj techniques constitute doing Bjj?

submission wrestling would be more accurate.

Bjj forms the core of submission wrestling as well.

to say a guy was bjj. I think he would have to grade have some sort of linage and train in a gi.

Again, no one is saying anyone is Bjj exclusively. I said that no one goes into MMA without learning Bjj. Its a requirement to have any success in the sport. There's also plenty of nogi Bjj schools out there.

 

[drop bear]

That's quite an interesting distinction. You don't do Bjj but you do Bjj techniques? Wouldn't performing Bjj techniques constitute doing Bjj?



Bjj forms the core of submission wrestling as well.



Again, no one is saying anyone is Bjj exclusively. I said that no one goes into MMA without learning Bjj. Its a requirement to have any success in the sport.

well i would be miss representing bjj. If i said i did. If that makes sense.

the reverse would be can i start handing out belts in bjj. Just because I can submit bjj players?

 

[Hanzou]

well i would be miss representing bjj. If i said i did. If that makes sense.

Not really, many people consider submission wrestling simply Bjj w/o a gi.

the reverse would be can i start handing out belts in bjj. Just because I can submit bjj players?

Well if Josh Barnett started handing out Bjj belts, I don't think too many people in the submission wrestling, or sport bjj realm would complain too much. Despite the fact that he received an honorary BB in Bjj, most people consider him and his belt legit. In my experience, the Bjj world revolves around effectiveness plain and simple. If you're subbing black belts, you deserve a black belt.

 

[drop bear]

Not really, many people consider submission wrestling simply Bjj w/o a gi.



Well if Josh Barnett started handing out Bjj belts, I don't think too many people in the submission wrestling, or sport bjj realm would complain too much. Despite the fact that he received an honorary BB in Bjj, most people consider him and his belt legit. In my experience, the Bjj world revolves around effectiveness plain and simple. If you're subbing black belts, you deserve a black belt.

you would be one of a very select group that would go for that.

 

[Steve]

That's quite an interesting distinction. You don't do Bjj but you do Bjj techniques? Wouldn't performing Bjj techniques constitute doing Bjj?



Bjj forms the core of submission wrestling as well.



Again, no one is saying anyone is Bjj exclusively. I said that no one goes into MMA without learning Bjj. Its a requirement to have any success in the sport. There's also plenty of nogi Bjj schools out there.

Fwiw, some such as josh Barnett would argue that submission wrestling exists alongside and independent of Bjj. And there are plenty of tournaments such as the adcc which have no connection to Bjj at all.


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[Steve]

Not really, many people consider submission wrestling simply Bjj w/o a gi.



Well if Josh Barnett started handing out Bjj belts, I don't think too many people in the submission wrestling, or sport bjj realm would complain too much. Despite the fact that he received an honorary BB in Bjj, most people consider him and his belt legit. In my experience, the Bjj world revolves around effectiveness plain and simple. If you're subbing black belts, you deserve a black belt.

He essentially received his black belt so that he could compete in the nogi worlds. Nogi, he's probably top tier. But I would expect his Gi game to suck ***.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[drop bear]

Some resistance to the no gi black belt idea.

 

[elder999]

He essentially received his black belt so that he could compete in the nogi worlds. Nogi, he's probably top tier. But I would expect his Gi game to suck ***.


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Remember my post:

6. Josh Barnett (33-7)
High school folkstyle wrestler and later a catch wrestler. Awarded a BJJ black belt with 0 gi training. No-Gi World Champion at black belt and defeated Otavio Souza (a black belt world champion) by submission in a gi.

Doesn't suck so bad........

 

[drop bear]

Sub wrestlers do bjj competitions because that is where the good grappler's are.

to fight you have to fight good fighters.

 

[elder999]

That's quite an interesting distinction. You don't do Bjj but you do Bjj techniques? Wouldn't performing Bjj techniques constitute doing Bjj?



Bjj forms the core of submission wrestling as well.

Judo forms the core of BJJ

Jujutsu forms the core of Judo.

Frankly, if someone trains to do techniques, they aren't training the form. There is a distinction.

And what you're saying: it's kind of like saying that Ronda Rousey trained BJJ before she entered MMA.....'cause she didn't.....it's, you know, that thing where you put your fingers to the keyboard and our monitors are filled with complete and utter nonsense?

I said that no one goes into MMA without learning Bjj. Its a requirement to have any success in the sport. There's also plenty of nogi Bjj schools out there.

And plenty of bollocks right here.....

 

[Hanzou]

Fwiw, some such as josh Barnett would argue that submission wrestling exists alongside and independent of Bjj. And there are plenty of tournaments such as the adcc which have no connection to Bjj at all.

I'm sure he would. He's made it a personal goal of his to separate himself from his Bjj background in order to more effectively market himself. I don't think you can really separate submission wrestling from Bjj. The two are intrinsically connected on many levels because Bjj is the most popular form of it.

you would be one of a very select group that would go for that.

Go for what?

 

[Hanzou]

Judo forms the core of BJJ

Jujutsu forms the core of Judo.

Not in the modern era.

And what you're saying: it's kind of like saying that Ronda Rousey trained BJJ before she entered MMA.....'cause she didn't.....it's, you know, that thing where you put your fingers to the keyboard and our monitors are filled with complete and utter nonsense?

She made her MMA debut in late 2010. She was training with Eddie Bravo and others before that time. Last I checked, Bravo was a Bjj instructor.

And plenty of bollocks right here.....

Yeah, because you've been sooooo right up to this point.

 

[elder999]

She made her MMA debut in late 2010. She was training with Eddie Bravo and others before that time. Last I checked, Bravo was a Bjj instructor.

She's always been part of the Hayastan team. Appearing on an Eddie Bravo podcast doesn't constitute training with him-although, for you it might....

"10th Planet..." that's ironic.....

 

[Hanzou]

She's always been part of the Hayastan team. Appearing on an Eddie Bravo podcast doesn't constitute training with him-although, for you it might....

Yes, and Hayastan is a MMA team. Do you honestly think she got no Bjj training out of an MMA team?

 

[Danny T]

Based on the fact that Sanshou is a relatively young art and that its rapidly evolving as it absorbs more styles into its curriculum. That's the antithesis of a traditional martial art.

Based upon that what do you consider Shotokan and several of the other Karate systems that have come about in the early to mid 1900's and have evolved since. How about Muay Thai or Pekiti-Tirsia Kali, traditional or no?

[QUOTE="Hanzou]You don't do Bjj but you do Bjj techniques? Wouldn't performing Bjj techniques constitute doing Bjj?[/QUOTE]
Someone performs a roundhouse kick contacting with their shin are they doing muay thai or Munda Muda or is it pekiti-tirsia or something else? Someone does a hip throw is it Dumog or is it Judo or JJ. Someone performs a shoulder lock are the doing BJJ or Wing Chun, or pekiti-tirsia, or Dumog or Silat, or maybe they are doing Pankration.
Just curious.

 

[elder999]

Yes, and Hayastan is a MMA team. Do you honestly think she got no Bjj training out of an MMA team?

The Hayastan system is a blend of judo, sambo, catch/Greco-Roman/ and freestyle wrestling.

It doesn't need BJJ, because it has Judo.

Again, the irony is hilarious. You telling me what the training under Gene LeBell and Gokor consists of...