Two Taekwondo contestants have altercation before contest

Master Dan

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This is a very good point. The size of the Dojang is inmaterial to the actual quality of the student. Many of the Original Okinawan masters either taught from their homes or had very small (at least initially) schools. And they produced many quality masters that in some cases went on to found their own styles. I've seen comments in other threads that I shake my head at such as McDojang owners driving their BMW's and laughing all the way to the bank. I have a hard time comprehending that type of ethic. Perhaps I'm jaded, but I prefer to see an instructor pour out of himself/herself because they love the art and love to teach and have the students upmost in their mind. These are the types of instructors I've been blessed to have and it made an impact on me. They had integrity, were honest in their motives and loved to teach. I think that sort of ethic translates onto the students.

Your quite right but also there are some very large do jangs and GM organizations that have done great thiings as well but the one thing I have seen across the board is that money corupts at many levels this mentality of MA is only a business with formulas for this and that leave at the office do not get involved in the care and well being of your students for me violates everything about MA at its base. I was always taught that a good master would lay down his life for his students if needed and gives all that he can to those who are worthy to recieve it and in turn they owe him respect and caring in his old age as we should all of us care for our elders until death. This country and our school system would be far better off if that were taken to heart as the norm not the rare occurance? It is good to have book learning and accomplishments but nothing can replace one on one transfer of energy and spirit to inspire a long healthy and productive life and a commitment to serve others. The worship of Ego and other idols that has infiltrated a culture and indiginous art form like you said that was meant to be grass roots based father to son master to deciple in the name of being pushed to be global an Olmypic elite combined with the Western fall of society has exacted a toll. I am glad there are people like you Kong Soo Do who have decided to focus on quality for those you serve. We all have different Karma and for some it is to help one or a few but change thier lives forever. What is sad is to see so many good men stand on the side lines thinking they are too old or if they cannot have hundreds or thousands of admiring students why bother? The illusion is that we truly control where we live what we have or who we teach, fighting that goes against the energy we are supposed to tap into for happyness. Shame we have to use up 75% of our life to figure that out? But I believe the last 25% can be the best for us and others
 

Kong Soo Do

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I hope you can read this. I'm trying to figure out the quote feature.

No problem partner :)

To be clear, I'm not looking at it with a cynical eye but rather a realistic one. Ultimately, one will place value in what they perceive as valuable. If someone wishes to ignore or overlook the inconsistencies or unethical practices of a particular organization and at the same time pay lots of money for a piece of paper from people that have never seen them to feel valid or legitimate then they will do so. I simply choose a different path.
 

thelegendxp

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TKD is treated too much as a sport these days, and the martial arts ideals seem to be lost somewhere. I'm sure things like this will stop happening if people knew the "DO" of TKD.
 

Markku P

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TKD is treated too much as a sport these days, and the martial arts ideals seem to be lost somewhere. I'm sure things like this will stop happening if people knew the "DO" of TKD.

I think this is a big "cliche"..When some people don't behave in a good manner and they do stupid things, then it is because of the "sport" side.
Then we talk about "do" and how that is missing. I think some people just don't have good manners, are bad examples or just are plain idiots!
( and you will find them on both sides! "sport" or "martial arts" )

Actually I don't even separate those things today..there is just Taekwondo ( sport or martial art )

/Markku P.
 

ralphmcpherson

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I think this is a big "cliche"..When some people don't behave in a good manner and they do stupid things, then it is because of the "sport" side.
Then we talk about "do" and how that is missing. I think some people just don't have good manners, are bad examples or just are plain idiots!
( and you will find them on both sides! "sport" or "martial arts" )

Actually I don't even separate those things today..there is just Taekwondo ( sport or martial art )

/Markku P.
Having friends who train at 'sport' clubs and myself who trains at a non sport club, believe me, there is a difference. Neither is 'better', but each offer very different things. If someone at my club did anything even remotely like what these competitors did they would be kicked out of the club straight away. My guess is these competitors were not kicked out of their respective clubs. And Im sure many many competitors in 'sport' tkd who show poor sportsmanship are not kicked out of their clubs, actually Id be surprised if they are even disciplined at all. We had a guy a few years back who showed poor manner, he was given a warning, he persisted and was asked to leave, Ive never seen him since.
 

Markku P

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And Im sure many many competitors in 'sport' tkd who show poor sportsmanship are not kicked out of their clubs, actually Id be surprised if they are even disciplined at all. We had a guy a few years back who showed poor manner, he was given a warning, he persisted and was asked to leave, Ive never seen him since.

I know what you mean.. but still.. Most important thing is of how instructor's themself are. I have seen ( as example ) same things in many boxing schools, but strange thing is, the most boxing clubs I know, they don't have any problem with bad behaviour and disrespect from students and they don't talk anything about "DO" they just teach that you have to show respect and you always must have a good manners.

..but of course we can try to define what "do" means..but we don't need to go there..:)


/Markku P.
 

thelegendxp

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I do agree that the difference between sports and do does not single-handedly cause the bad manners, but i still do see, and have heard of trends that follow, and the lack of respect of Taekwondo and Taekwondo practitioners/masters that come with lack of identity as a Do rather than a sport.
 

Cyriacus

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I know what you mean.. but still.. Most important thing is of how instructor's themself are. I have seen ( as example ) same things in many boxing schools, but strange thing is, the most boxing clubs I know, they don't have any problem with bad behaviour and disrespect from students and they don't talk anything about "DO" they just teach that you have to show respect and you always must have a good manners.

..but of course we can try to define what "do" means..but we don't need to go there..:)


/Markku P.
Come to think of it, i for one have *never* met a poor mannered Boxer. Heh
 

hal-apino

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After a bit of digging it has been determined that the suspect in this incident is from "Doral Taekwondo And Family Fitness" in Doral Florida, a suburb of Miami and a USAT registered school. http://www.doral-taekwondo.com/Home_Page.html and he is one of the captains of the school's demo team http://www.doralwolves.com/

I wonder what will come of both the punk and the school with regards to their USAT status?

Are you sure about your information? Ricky Rodriguez is the owner of Doral and one of the most amazing respectful coaches I have ever met. Are you sure that it was not http://youngtaekwondo.com ??? Chris and Ray Alverez are the captains of that team which is also an AMAZING Team that works very hard. I have not heard either of those names being the person who committed the insane act, the name Pena however does ring a bell.
 

Cyriacus

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It looks like this has made this has made it through the courts. 8 Months at a Boys Ranch. Unfortunately, the victim here still may lose his remaining teeth.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_18768254
Hey, i dont see the issue. If the Legal System is anything like it is Here, the US, or the UK (I cant remember where this happened :p), he can Sue the Defendant for Damages, and have HIM pay the Medical Bills for the Replacements. :)
 

IcemanSK

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It's a fitting punishment. IMO. 8 months of incareceration on the other side of the country; away from family. He'll serve 3-4 months. A ban from TKD, too (one hopes). That should bring the message home to a 16 year old who has basically been a good kid. Horrible crime, for sure. I hope the victim can recover fully.
 

Gwai Lo Dan

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Hey, i dont see the issue. If the Legal System is anything like it is Here, the US, or the UK (I cant remember where this happened :p), he can Sue the Defendant for Damages, and have HIM pay the Medical Bills for the Replacements. :)
Are you serious? His teeth / mouth will never be the same.
 

Cyriacus

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Are you serious? His teeth / mouth will never be the same.
I know - But at least someone else can pay the Medical Bills. He cant get it back the way it was, whatever he does. So figuratively, working with what he has and going from there would be optimal.
 

StudentCarl

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Are you serious? His teeth / mouth will never be the same.

I'm not big on lawsuits, but I sure would if it was my kid. Cut-and-dried case of long-term damage and cost resulting from the action of another. So here's an interesting question: Do you just sue the student/parents, or do you include the coach/school the student came from?
 

Cyriacus

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I'm not big on lawsuits, but I sure would if it was my kid. Cut-and-dried case of long-term damage and cost resulting from the action of another. So here's an interesting question: Do you just sue the student/parents, or do you include the coach/school the student came from?
Can it really be considered the Coach/Schools Responsibility to handle the Students Temper/Misconduct?

Another Dojang of the same Organisation of mine, kicked out a Red Belt recently, for using his Training to Bully people.
Apparently hed been doing it for Months.
The Instructer is Highly Respected, and NOONE was aware that he was doing it. Not even his Parents.
Is the Teacher, therefore, at fault?

This would need to be read into, before you point fingers at the Teacher.
 

hal-apino

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Wouldn't the USAT Liability insurance pick it up as it did happen at their sanctioned event.
 
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