Turning Kick in Taegeuk 6

[Gwai Lo Dan]

When doing the turning kick (roundhouse kick) in taegeuk 6, is the striking surface the ball of the foot? It appears to be from this video (16 seconds and 30 seconds). However, I've never seen a WTF/KKW club teach the turning kick with the ball of the foot (unlike ITF clubs which seem to teach it), so I've been doing the pattern with the instep as the striking surface.

 

[sopraisso]

I believe both striking surfaces are acceptable to Kukkiwon, but the ball of the foot is favoured when doing forms. Instep is typically preferred in WTF rules competition, though. That's how I've been taught, at least. ;-)
Remember WTF and Kukkiwon are not the same and the martial aspects (Kukkiwon) usually differ from the Olympic sport aspects (WTF).

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[Gwai Lo Dan]

Remember WTF and Kukkiwon are not the same and the martial aspects (Kukkiwon) usually differ from the Olympic sport aspects (WTF).

Agreed. What I called the WTF/KKW clubs are the ones that use the KKW forms and BB registration, and send their students to WTF tournaments.

 

[sopraisso]

Agreed. What I called the WTF/KKW clubs are the ones that use the KKW forms and BB registration, and send their students to WTF tournaments.

The influence of tournaments probably makes kicking with the ball of foot less and less common in Kukkiwon schools. The GM of my school tells to favour ball of foot when we're practicing forms and step sparring but instep in basics and WTF sparring (there's no other kind of sparring there). Result: almost no-one really knows to perform round kicks with ball of foot. Sigh...

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[Dirty Dog]

You can tell something of a persons training by watching the roundhouse and the hook kicks.

Those who train primarily for the sporting aspects of TKD will kick with the instep and the ball of the foot, respectively.
Those who train primarily for self defense will kick with the ball of the foot and heel, respectively.

I've seen references from the KKW showing both methods.
In the videos with the KKW-released iPhone app, the kick is demonstrated as being done with the ball of the foot.
In Complete Taekwondo Poomsae by GM LEE, Kyu Hyung and GM KIM, Sang H, the roundhouse is described as being with the ball of the foot.
The video you posted, which is a clip from a DVD series released by the KKW, also shows it as being the ball of the foot.
However, in this video featuring GM LEE, Kyu Hyung (current head of the KKW and long time director of their poomsae team), you can see that the roundhouse is done with the instep. I would say this is a clear indication that either is acceptable, at least for poomsae.

At our school, we teach both techniques with both kicks. Students are taught that the ball (or heel) of the foot must be used against hard targets, with the instep (or ball) of the foot being used for poomsae or striking soft targets. In sparring, lower ranks use the instep (or ball) of the foot because it lessens the chance of injury.

We require that breaks done with the roundhouse be done with the ball of the foot. With the hook, they must be done with the heel. I've done breaks with the instep, but never more than 2".

Ask your Master what he wants to see in your school for testing and competition purposes and do it that way.

 

[andyjeffries]

When I was at the Kukkiwon in July for the Foreign Taekwondo Master Training Course (what used to be called the Foreign Instructor Course), I asked this specific question. The answer was that the instep is OK, the ball of the foot with the ankle straight (like a front kick at 18:28 in the Kukkiwon Basic Motions 2 video*) is OK, the ball of the foot with the ankle at 90 degrees was NOT OK. This seems strange so I visually clarified it by holding my foot in the three positions and it was confirmed that I'd understood correctly (the instructor demonstrate with thumbs up to the first two and crossed arms for the the third in the common Korean X style to indicate no or not possible). Still, it didn't sit well with me overnight as the second option feels a very weird position to turning kick in, so the next day I asked our next instructor on the course the same question and got exactly the same answer.

In the video of GM Lee's students above, it's hard to tell, but I think it's done with the foot extended and the toes pulled back (option 2 above). I got the feeling that this is the preferred option (because that is the way the instructor demonstrated it when teaching the pattern during that session), but that instep is also OK. This is also how GM Hwang In Sik demonstrates it in the Kukkiwon Basic Motions 2 video*.

Hope this helps...

*

 

[skribs]

I've never learned to do a roundhouse kick with the ball of my foot. I've always been told "instep, so you don't hurt your toes."

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

.. the ball of the foot with the ankle straight (like a front kick at 18:28 in the Kukkiwon Basic Motions 2 video*) is OK, the ball of the foot with the ankle at 90 degrees was NOT OK.
*

Wow, I'd find it very risky and difficult to kick with the ball of my foot without pulling my foot bock.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

The turning kick in this video is so much more linear (i.e., no arc) than I've ever seen. I'm not sure whether a turning kick that linear could be effective in hitting the side of an opponent. Comments?

 

[WaterGal]

I've never learned to do a roundhouse kick with the ball of my foot. I've always been told "instep, so you don't hurt your toes."

The reason for doing it with the ball of the foot is that the metatarsels (bones on the top of your foot) are fragile, so doing it that way with a lot of power against a hard surface is a good way to injure yourself. Same thing with doing a front kick with the top of foot. (Edit: It's much easier to jam your toes than bruise/break your metatarsels, so the former injury tends to get more attention.)

But if you're just doing WTF sparring and not planning on breaking thick boards or concrete pavers with your kick, don't worry about it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The turning kick in this video is so much more linear (i.e., no arc) than I've ever seen. I'm not sure whether a turning kick that linear could be effective in hitting the side of an opponent. Comments?

The KKW demo team (and others I know personally who focus heavily on poomsae competition) tend to throw this kick in a more linear fashion. I've always understood it as being something they do in pursuit of a higher score, not anything that would make the kick more effective.

The reason for doing it with the ball of the foot is that the metatarsels (bones on the top of your foot) are fragile, so doing it that way with a lot of power against a hard surface is a good way to injure yourself. Same thing with doing a front kick with the top of foot. (Edit: It's much easier to jam your toes than bruise/break your metatarsels, so the former injury tends to get more attention.)

This is incorrect. Kicking with either the ball or the instep will place the impact on the metatarsals. The difference is that kicking with the instep causes the impact to be across the bone, rather than along the bone. Kicking with the tarsals (toes) is an entirely different subject, and not at all what we're talking about here.

But if you're just doing WTF sparring and not planning on breaking thick boards or concrete pavers with your kick, don't worry about it.

Right. Because we shouldn't even consider the possibility that we might use a martial art for self defense, eh?

 

[Jaeimseu]

You can make viable arguments for using the instep or the balls of the feet for roundkick.

"Power" breaking with a roundkick isn't something I ever see in Korea. Breaking a thin board doesn't require the ball of the foot. Even a 3/4 - 1 inch thick board can be done pretty easily with the instep if you've done any significant target kicking. The only thing difficult is to kick so that the instep is striking the center of the target, and not the toes.

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[msmitht]

The kick is done with the instep, toes pointed.

 

[Rumy73]

I believe both striking surfaces are acceptable to Kukkiwon, but the ball of the foot is favoured when doing forms. Instep is typically preferred in WTF rules competition, though. That's how I've been taught, at least. ;-)
Remember WTF and Kukkiwon are not the same and the martial aspects (Kukkiwon) usually differ from the Olympic sport aspects (WTF).

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@
The theory is that the ball of the foot is a harder surface area, which makes for better breaking than the instep. This technique is fine with a static target; however, in a dynamic situation, I would use the instep. It is too easy to jam or break a toe while trying to kick with the ball of the foot.

 

[Rumy73]

You can make viable arguments for using the instep or the balls of the feet for roundkick.

"Power" breaking with a roundkick isn't something I ever see in Korea. Breaking a thin board doesn't require the ball of the foot. Even a 3/4 - 1 inch thick board can be done pretty easily with the instep if you've done any significant target kicking. The only thing difficult is to kick so that the instep is striking the center of the target, and not the toes.

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Not in tkd, but if you go to a soobahkdo dojang or a similar type school, you will see it. In Seoul, there is sbd club near the women's university.

 

[skribs]

The theory is that the ball of the foot is a harder surface area, which makes for better breaking than the instep. This technique is fine with a static target; however, in a dynamic situation, I would use the instep. It is too easy to jam or break a toe while trying to kick with the ball of the foot.

This would be my fear, and why I don't even want to practice using the ball of the foot for a round kick. It's much easier to get the toes up on a front kick.

 

[Jaeimseu]

Not in tkd, but if you go to a soobahkdo dojang or a similar type school, you will see it. In Seoul, there is sbd club near the women's university.

I'm sure there are plenty of non-tkd clubs that do roundkick any number of ways. I didn't mean to imply that I was talking about anything other than tkd, since the OP referenced Taeguek 6.

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[chrispillertkd]

When I was at the Kukkiwon in July for the Foreign Taekwondo Master Training Course (what used to be called the Foreign Instructor Course), I asked this specific question. The answer was that the instep is OK, the ball of the foot with the ankle straight (like a front kick at 18:28 in the Kukkiwon Basic Motions 2 video*) is OK, the ball of the foot with the ankle at 90 degrees was NOT OK.

Wow, I have never seen a turning kick executed like you described (until I watched the video - and I think it's performed that way in the second video posted, too; hard to tell). I find it hard to visualize the attacking tool actually being the ball of the foot when the ankle is held straight even if the toes are pulled back. How have you found hitting with the ball of the foot in this position? Can you get as much power as when your ankle is at a 90 degree angle? What is the trajectory of the attacking tool when you're foot is in this position (hitting with the ball of the foot when your ankle is bent is quite natural since your leg is making a semi-circle; with the position you mention I'm not sure how you're supposed to be hitting your opponent)?

Pax,

Chris

 

[chrispillertkd]

However, I've never seen a WTF/KKW club teach the turning kick with the ball of the foot (unlike ITF clubs which seem to teach it...

The ITF teaches that the turning kick can have the following attacking tools: ball of the foot, instep, toes (with the shoes on), and the knee. Every instance of a turning kick in our patterns is specified to use the ball of the foot, however.

Pax,

Chris

 

[skribs]

I can see the knee without extending the leg (like a MT round knee), but attacking with the knee with the leg straight would seem more painful to the kicker than the attacker IMO. I know MT likes to use the shin instead of the instep in their round kick.