Training Methods Old School vs. New School

[kungfukid94]

I have been doing Hung Kyun for the past 3yrs and Ive learned alot especially some old school training methods and some new school ones. the reason im bringing this topic up is due to the fact that every thing i have seen nowa days in traditional martial arts schools live up to the "glorious" histry that came before these arts were given a name and i want to know why that is.

 

[Steve]

I'm not tracking what you're trying to say.

 

[Buka]

Old School vs. New School. Are those our only choices?

 

[Headhunter]

Sorry I have no idea what you're on about....all this new school and old school stuff is bs. The majority of styles train exactly the same way today as they did back then, maybe now people understand more about nutrition and strength and how the muscles work and respond to training but mostly it's all the same. All this stuff that the older generation are tougher than people today is nonsense and frankly ego from the older generation believing people these aren't as good as they were. Everyone's got access to the same training. Trust me I've been a student since the old days and I am still a student now and the martial artists are just as tough and skilled as they ever were.

 

[jobo]

I have been doing Hung Kyun for the past 3yrs and Ive learned alot especially some old school training methods and some new school ones. the reason im bringing this topic up is due to the fact that every thing i have seen nowa days in traditional martial arts schools live up to the "glorious" histry that came before these arts were given a name and i want to know why that is.

if I'm reading you right, i agree that tma are in many cases stuck in a time warp using 100 year old training methods ignore the massive leaps in sports,science that have happend in this time.
the reason? We'll they class themselves as traditional and therefore only use tradition methods

 

[hoshin1600]

All this stuff that the older generation are tougher than people today is nonsense

I've been a student since the old days

i do not know exactly what he is refering to. he could be talking about his specific art and that art might have made a lot of changes over the last few years.. we dont know.

you say you have been studying since the "old" days. that is kind of arbitrary. what is the old days exactly? where you studying in the 1890's ? the 1950's? 60's , 70's ???

at least with karate, i can say that training has changed a lot over the years. i do think we are overall better now then ever before, but there is something to be said about the "instant gratification" generation today.
i also do think the prior generations were tougher. not better but more acclimated to hardship. there can be no doubt that a farm boy working 365 days a year 14 hours a day doing farm work is a bit more hardy then someone sitting behind a desk for 10 hours a day looking at a computer screen typing his opinion on an MT web sight..

 

[jobo]

i do not know exactly what he is refering to. he could be talking about his specific art and that art might have made a lot of changes over the last few years.. we dont know.

you say you have been studying since the "old" days. that is kind of arbitrary. what is the old days exactly? where you studying in the 1890's ? the 1950's? 60's , 70's ???

at least with karate, i can say that training has changed a lot over the years. i do think we are overall better now then ever before, but there is something to be said about the "instant gratification" generation today.
i also do think the prior generations were tougher. not better but more acclimated to hardship. there can be no doubt that a farm boy working 365 days a year 14 hours a day doing farm work is a bit more hardy then someone sitting behind a desk for 10 hours a day looking at a computer screen typing his opinion on an MT web sight..

yes in most other sports the instant generation are constantly raising the standard of performance in their sport

its the whole hardship thing i don't get, in what way do you think that poverty poor housing,poor,diet and being worked half to death makes people better at competative sport?

for a long time most sports were the preserve of gentlemen who could afford to rest recover and feed themselves properly

 

[hoshin1600]

yes in most other sports the instant generation are constantly raising the standard of performance in their sport

its the whole hardship thing i don't get, in what way do you think that poverty poor housing,poor,diet and being worked half to death makes people better at competative sport?

for a long time most sports were the preserve of gentlemen who could afford to rest recover and feed themselves properly

who said anything about sport?

 

[jobo]

who said anything about sport?

arnt we talking about karate? You mentioned karate in your post that i took issue with, karate is a sport by any reasonable defintion. Or were they just throw away remarks that had nothing at all to do with the discussion

 

[hoshin1600]

arnt we talking about karate? You mentioned karate in your post that i took issue with, karate is a sport by any reasonable defintion. Or were they just throw away remarks that had nothing at all to do with the discussion

Karate is not a sport. There are modern aspects that CAN be sport oriented. But by definition it is not a sport. You do not HAVE to compete to participate. Ranks are not based on how many wins you have. There is no professional governing body, it's not in the Olympics.
No its not a sport. I personally have not been interested in any form of competition in 30 years. I also know many karate - ka in their 70's, 80's and 90's...they don't compete either.

 

[hoshin1600]

arnt we talking about karate? You mentioned karate in your post that i took issue with, karate is a sport by any reasonable defintion. Or were they just throw away remarks that had nothing at all to do with the discussion

is weight lifting a sport?
no it is not a sport. it is an activity that produces a desired outcome. now some people MAY like to wieght lift in a competitive manner but that doesnt make it a sport.

if you can tell me that weight lifting is nothing more than a sport, then i will concede the argument to you.

 

[jobo]

Karate is not a sport. There are modern aspects that CAN be sport oriented. But by definition it is not a sport. You do not HAVE to compete to participate. Ranks are not based on how many wins you have. There is no professional governing body, it's not in the Olympics.
No its not a sport. I personally have not been interested in any form of competition in 30 years. I also know many karate - ka in their 70's, 80's and 90's...they don't compete either.

a sport us an athletic activity done for enjoyment or health.
what your thinking of is what we call competative sport, . That's were you compete in an athletic activerty.
don't feel bad, it can be,confusing

 

[Headhunter]

i do not know exactly what he is refering to. he could be talking about his specific art and that art might have made a lot of changes over the last few years.. we dont know.

you say you have been studying since the "old" days. that is kind of arbitrary. what is the old days exactly? where you studying in the 1890's ? the 1950's? 60's , 70's ???

at least with karate, i can say that training has changed a lot over the years. i do think we are overall better now then ever before, but there is something to be said about the "instant gratification" generation today.
i also do think the prior generations were tougher. not better but more acclimated to hardship. there can be no doubt that a farm boy working 365 days a year 14 hours a day doing farm work is a bit more hardy then someone sitting behind a desk for 10 hours a day looking at a computer screen typing his opinion on an MT web sight..

Why would working on a farm make you tough? All it means is you can lift some hay and milk some cows doesn't mean you can fight

 

[hoshin1600]

Why would working on a farm make you tough? All it means is you can lift some hay and milk some cows doesn't mean you can fight

i didnt say farming makes you able to fight. i said growing up in that kind of environment makes you acclimated to hardship.

 

[hoshin1600]

a sport us an athletic activity done for enjoyment or health.
what your thinking of is what we call competative sport, . That's were you compete in an athletic activerty.

as per google
sport
spôrt/
noun

1. 1.
   an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

see,,, part of the definition is competition.

don't feel bad, it can be,confusing

its ok i can be sympathetic to your lack of higher cognitive ability.

 

[Danny T]

a sport us an athletic activity done for enjoyment or health.
what your thinking of is what we call competative sport, . That's were you compete in an athletic activerty.
don't feel bad, it can be,confusing

Yep can be confusing.
Depending upon which dictionary ones culture uses it can be different.
I have a Webster's that defines Sport (noun) as: A competitive physical activity engaged in for pleasure.
Oxford's definition is: An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team is in competition against another or others for entertainment.
Cambridge: a competition done for enjoyment or as a job, that takes physical effort and skill and is played or done following particular or specific rules.
Collins definition: competitive leisure activities which need physical effort and skill.
These all refer to sport being a competition.

 

[jobo]

Yep can be confusing.
Depending upon which dictionary ones culture uses it can be different.
I have a Webster's that defines Sport (noun) as: A competitive physical activity engaged in for pleasure.
Oxford's definition is: An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team is in competition against another or others for entertainment.
Cambridge: a competition done for enjoyment or as a job, that takes physical effort and skill and is played or done following particular or specific rules.
Collins definition: competitive leisure activities which need physical effort and skill.
These all refer to sport being a competition.

you've selectively edited the Cambridge one, it actual says a game competion OR ACTIVITY

 

[hoshin1600]

Other activities that are not sports....
Yoga
Bicycling
Swimming
Running.
In order for an activity to be a sport it has to be placed within a sport framework that defines rules and a scoring system.

So Michael Phelps does do sport swimming, if he was on a cruise and the ship went down and he had to swim to shore, he would not be participating in a sport. Swimming is a way to prevent drowning.
And monkeys, dogs, cats, bison, elephants all can swim. By your definition this is a scientific revolution that all species engage in sports. I wonder how my fish scores itself.
Millions of people in China on bicycles are not engaged in a sport, they are just trying to get to work.
Again an activity can be a sport if placed within a sport framework but by itself it is not a sport.

 

[kungfukid94]

I'm not tracking what you're trying to say.

I apologize im new to this forum so let me try to explain what i am trying to get at is when I see martial art styles train in todays society it looks more like a dance routine with no real intent and no real world training and yet we know that in the hey day say a few 100yrs ago that was thr complete opposite of todays world and I dont understand why that is.

 

[hoshin1600]

I apologize im new to this forum so let me try to explain what i am trying to get at is when I see martial art styles train in todays society it looks more like a dance routine with no real intent and no real world training and yet we know that in the hey day say a few 100yrs ago that was thr complete opposite of todays world and I dont understand why that is.

You must be looking at a very small sample. I don't see that at all. What martial arts are you looking at?