Training Methods Old School vs. New School

[Danny T]

you've selectively edited the Cambridge one, it actual says a game competion OR ACTIVITY

No I wrote what is in my wife's dictionary...She uses Cambridge, I tend to use Webster.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I apologize im new to this forum so let me try to explain what i am trying to get at is when I see martial art styles train in todays society it looks more like a dance routine with no real intent and no real world training and yet we know that in the hey day say a few 100yrs ago that was thr complete opposite of todays world and I dont understand why that is.

I suppose that depends upon what art you're looking at, and what school. Many traditional arts have kata (forms) that are practiced without a partner. Those can look like dance if you don't know their purpose - more so in some arts than in others. And some arts focus on smooth movement, which can make their training look more dance-like. None of this is a problem, so long as some "live" training also exists (something like sparring with some real energy in it) to ensure the techniques trained work in a more realistic context.

It is useful to note that things like kata have existed in many arts for a very long time. There are also arts that do not have them, some of which never did.

 

[kungfukid94]

You must be looking at a very small sample. I don't see that at all. What martial arts are you looking at?

Majority of what seen in bay area where i live there are many traditional schools that have a good lineage and good history and look good on a performing stage but lack real world usage that is unless you either do mma or muay thai or kyokushin kai karate. So what im asking is why is that and how can we change that stigma in todays world.

 

[JR 137]

Majority of what seen in bay area where i live there are many traditional schools that have a good lineage and good history and look good on a performing stage but lack real world usage that is unless you either do mma or muay thai or kyokushin kai karate. So what im asking is why is that and how can we change that stigma in todays world.

It doesn't matter what anyone else is doing. Train the way you want to train. If everyone else wants to run around in silly clothing doing absurd stuff, let them have their fun. If people ask you how you train, give them an honest answer when appropriate, and give them a stupid answer when appropriate.

A friend of mine's boyfriend's kids "do karate" at an absurd sport karate McDojo. They're 6, so it is what it is. She's a good friend and was asking about how I train, so I showed her a video of others in my organization (I don't video myself).

A jackass friend of a friend asked me about my training, acting like a moron. I showed him this and told him it's my school...

Forget about changing the world. Spend that energy training.

 

[Danny T]

It doesn't matter what anyone else is doing. Train the way you want to train. If everyone else wants to run around in silly clothing doing absurd stuff, let them have their fun. If people ask you how you train, give them an honest answer when appropriate, and give them a stupid answer when appropriate.

A friend of mine's boyfriend's kids "do karate" at an absurd sport karate McDojo. They're 6, so it is what it is. She's a good friend and was asking about how I train, so I showed her a video of others in my organization (I don't video myself).

A jackass friend of a friend asked me about my training, acting like a moron. I showed him this and told him it's my school...

Forget about changing the world. Spend that energy training.

Excellent!
Absolutely love the "...it's my school" to the person acting like a moron.

 

[Headhunter]

Majority of what seen in bay area where i live there are many traditional schools that have a good lineage and good history and look good on a performing stage but lack real world usage that is unless you either do mma or muay thai or kyokushin kai karate. So what im asking is why is that and how can we change that stigma in todays world.

You can't change it and why do you want to just get on with what you do and don't worry about other people's opinions

 

[Xue Sheng]

Old School vs. New School. Are those our only choices?

Why? that would just be more things to compare to still end with....OLD SCHOOLS BETTER

 

[JowGaWolf]

I apologize im new to this forum so let me try to explain what i am trying to get at is when I see martial art styles train in todays society it looks more like a dance routine with no real intent and no real world training and yet we know that in the hey day say a few 100yrs ago that was thr complete opposite of todays world and I dont understand why that is.

people don't want to learn how to fight anymore. It's that simple. Learning to fight using traditional martial arts is not easy. The stuff works but it requires more from the student than just punching, kicking, and wrestling on the ground. Most people like the idea that they can fight but very few actual train so that they can fight. The are many other reasons to take martial arts than to learn how to fight so fighting will often be the less popular reason.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Majority of what seen in bay area where i live there are many traditional schools that have a good lineage and good history and look good on a performing stage but lack real world usage that is unless you either do mma or muay thai or kyokushin kai karate. So what im asking is why is that and how can we change that stigma in todays world.

Sounds like you're arguing about 'Kata vs sparring, and have a better view kata=bad, sparring =good. Not necessarily old school vs new school, since some newer schools do sparring and conditioning, and some older styles place heavy emphasis on Kata.

Also, it's not accurate (imo) to say that doing forms is just performance, they have their place. But it's been discussed to death here, so if you check out the search option (search Kata vs sparring or tma vs mma) you'll find a ton of threads with different views on the topic.

 

[Flying Crane]

i didnt say farming makes you able to fight. i said growing up in that kind of environment makes you acclimated to hardship.

I grew up with some of those farmboys. They were tough as nails, and yes, some of them could fight too. Even those that maybe "couldn't" fight, well that's an arbitrary judgement. Still wouldn't want to have messed with them. They were tough.

 

[Flying Crane]

Majority of what seen in bay area where i live there are many traditional schools that have a good lineage and good history and look good on a performing stage but lack real world usage that is unless you either do mma or muay thai or kyokushin kai karate. So what im asking is why is that and how can we change that stigma in todays world.

Ok, to what Bay Area are to referring?

And how do you know that these schools with good lineage can't use it?

 

[drop bear]

Karate is not a sport. There are modern aspects that CAN be sport oriented. But by definition it is not a sport. You do not HAVE to compete to participate. Ranks are not based on how many wins you have. There is no professional governing body, it's not in the Olympics.
No its not a sport. I personally have not been interested in any form of competition in 30 years. I also know many karate - ka in their 70's, 80's and 90's...they don't compete either.

It is a sport or a hobby. But either way same basic premis. You need leisure time to be good at it.

 

[drop bear]

No I wrote what is in my wife's dictionary...She uses Cambridge, I tend to use Webster.

Macquarie. Because it has swearing in it.

 

[drop bear]

people don't want to learn how to fight anymore. It's that simple. Learning to fight using traditional martial arts is not easy. The stuff works but it requires more from the student than just punching, kicking, and wrestling on the ground. Most people like the idea that they can fight but very few actual train so that they can fight. The are many other reasons to take martial arts than to learn how to fight so fighting will often be the less popular reason.

Learning to fight using any method is hard.

 

[drop bear]

You can't change it and why do you want to just get on with what you do and don't worry about other people's opinions

Yep. Let's all strive for mediocrity.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

i agree that tma are in many cases stuck in a time warp using 100 year old training methods ignore the massive leaps in sports,science that have happend in this time.
the reason? We'll they class themselves as traditional and therefore only use tradition methods

There are many traditional training methods that I have not found any modern replacement yet. Those are:

1. Hang on tree or pole to develop strong head lock and leg twisting power.
2. Twist a weight container to develop both arm twisting power.
3. Throw a square bag with metal ball in it to develop strong grip.
4. Scoop a Bowling ball (or a metal ball) out of a hole to develop "foot scooping" power.
5. Lift a single head weight bar to develop leg lifting power.
6. ...

 

[jobo]

There are many traditional training methods that I have not found any modern replacement yet. Those are:

1. Hang on tree or pole to develop strong head lock and leg twisting power.
2. Twist a weight container to develop both arm twisting power.
3. Throw a square bag with metal ball in it to develop strong grip.
4. Scoop a Bowling ball (or a metal ball) out of a hole to develop "foot scooping" power.
5. Lift a single head weight bar to develop leg lifting power.
6. ...

those are the medium of training not the method, though i am fascinated by the ancient Chinese having bowling balls

 

[Gerry Seymour]

those are the medium of training not the method, though i am fascinated by the ancient Chinese having bowling balls

What is your distinction between (or definition for, if that's easier) "medium" and "method".

 

[jobo]

What is your distinction between (or definition for, if that's easier) "medium" and "method".

resistance training is the medium and is as old as sports its self, though it fair to say it took a leap forward when they invented the bar bell with a changable weight system. Just listing a group of resistance training exercises as still current ignores the fact that of course they are,sill current as they are resistance exercises and they are still major part of any performance program. in fact any exercise is a resistance exercise even running

the,scientific method is what effect the resistance programs has on your body and how best to use it to increase performance

people do phds in it so its fair to say it can get quite complicated, but at its most basic, that what weight, for how many reps at what intensity ,duration and frequency and how much rest in between.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

resistance training is the medium and is as old as sports its self, though it fair to say it took a leap forward when they invented the bar bell with a changable weight system. Just listing a group of resistance training exercises as still current ignores the fact that of course they are,sill current as they are resistance exercises and they are still major part of any performance program. in fact any exercise is a resistance exercise even running

the,scientific method is what effect the resistance programs has on your body and how best to use it to increase performance

at its most basic, that what weight, for how many reps at what intensity ,duration and frequency and how much rest in between.

Wouldn't method, in that case, also include the specific exercise?