Training is it for everybody

[bowser666]

Yes, this is a good point. However, it may be that the school and the instructor are focused on high-level competition, and they have made a choice to only focus on that an nothing else. So they are selective about their students. To an outsider, it seems selfish or petty or profiling. But maybe they are just being honest in their goals, and it could be a disservice to bring in students who won't share these goals. Those students need to find a school that is willing and able to meet their needs. The right school for the right person. Not all kinds fit all kinds, that's all.

I see your point on how it depends on the goal of the School. I mean if teaching just for the purpose of having a Full Trophy case is their goal, then that is their perogative. That would sadden me , however, as I feel everyone deserves a chance ( within reason , for purposes of training, in reference to a previous statement about rapists, pedaphiles etc. They are out) to train.

The main point is that a student should align themselves with a school that fits their goals. Hopefully there is plenty of selection for that person.

 

[Flying Crane]

Fair enough, but if that is the case, Why would they take the students money for the three month trial first?? Surely they knew from the start that these students were not the "Type" that they wanted to teach. Sounds a bit dodgy to me.

well, that may certainly be a questionable business practice.

It may be that it is a legitimate evaluation period, and the instructors are providing their services for that time. Services provided, fees paid, fair is fair. Nobody promised anything beyond that.

If they have pre-judged and already decided in the beginning that the person will be pulled from the program, then I think it's immoral to still take their money for the duration. Better yet, in my opinion, a good-will business practice would be that the evaluation period is free of charge, or only a bare minimum charge to cover operating expenses or something.

Caveat emptor.

 

[harlan]

'Please teach me.'

Yes, a teacher has the 'right' to decline to teach for whatever reason he/she deems is important. And the student who finds the 'right' teacher is fortunate if they keep looking after being refused.

'Please teach me.'

I 'hear' something in the original post that is familiar to me: women who want to learn...and being told in various ways that they are unacceptable as students due to gender, age and fitness at the beginning of their journey.

'Please teach me.'

From a post here at this site:

"Isn't part of training to better yourself? Why lower the bar to include everyone instead of empowering them and have them come up to meet the bar."



No...I don't think martial arts is for everybody...and I don't think it's a 'one size fits all' either. Different arts, different students and different teachers. Good for those ladies for looking beyond the naysayers.

 

[Deaf Smith]

The lady turns and start laughing and said there other school they was at simply told them they are not the quality of person they wanted after there three month contract and then she went on to stay if you are round, short and have little athletic ability they get kicked out....

I cannot fathom a martial arts teacher saying this unless they have an 'elitist' attitude and think only muscle bound 'serious' fighters are the only people they want to associate with.

Look, I'm real self defense orientated. I feel it's one of the very basic cores of the martial arts. BUT, even 'round, short' people need to be able to defend themselves. I won't even go into the other core principles of the martial arts, like humility, respect for others, and courtesy.

I would consider it a challenge that any good martial artist would accept to help train them. No, maybe jump kicks are out, but I don't care what art one teaches, if the art does not have a set of methods that cannot help 'round, short' people to defend themselves, then the 'art' they teach is deficient!

Deaf

 

[harlan]

Well...there IS always weapons as an option. You know...to fill in those gaps.

 

[newGuy12]

Why do they ALWAYS pick on CMA :disgust: :uhyeah:

I see that green smile there. What do people think of the "hard" CMA? I can say what I think...

1) You will be hit HARD by the Teacher.
2) You will get hurt.
3) Nobody cares, so don't cry.

If someone can't take it, oh well, go away.

If I were young and had opportunity to practice some hard CMA, say the Hung-Gar, then that is what I would expect, rightly or wrongly. If things were too easy, I would ask myself, "but this is supposed to be the Tiger/Crane".

I only know from the cinema, you see, but that impression is that the Teacher is mean, and if you don't like it, well, then cry a river, but go away to cry the river, because no one will feel sorry, too bad. Not so nice, maybe, but also, maybe the tough, rough people make it. They may not pass the "entrance exam" on the background, but, if they are tough and strong, then maybe they will make it.

There is something to be said for this, I think. Somethings, maybe they are not meant to be so easy!

 

[kailat]

If I may chime in here for a few. I never look for students, they have all came to me through word of mouth, or by attending any of my training events i've held in the past.

I do not charge a fee for training, and have not for a while now. I choose not to teach publicly or in a formal setting. I train warriors! We train hard and we fight hard. I could not imagine a couple of older ladies coming to me wanting to learn from me. I have had a few females come to me and ask me to teach them self defense. But i always try to redirect them to other teachers more suitable for what they are looking for.

I have a total of 5 great guys that I enjoy spending my time training and working out with. Of these 5 guys all of their jobs rely on them having some form of specialized training in close quarter combat of some sort. We do not enter tournaments, or spar for trophies. Our mentality is surviving an altercation. We train as if its our last fight! I do a criminal background check on anyone who comes to want to train with us. I allow them to watch a training session or two, and then allow them to get to know those within the group. At that time then the group will allow or not allow the individual to train with us. And just because I do a criminal background check does not mean they are automatically disbarred. Because I have one guy who is sincere of learning with us and brings great training into our group. He served 10yrs in prison and he uses martial arts as his medicine to control his rage. He has been nothing but honest with us and been very respectful. He is one of our brothers. He also gets along well with those that ar police officers, and or are correctional officers and soldiers in the military that train with us. He is not looked down upon for his past.

So, I feel this is the best way to incorporate a "training group" vs. a commercial school. This way of teaching suites me better than teaching out of a commerical school. I've done both, and I'll have to admit I've watched our commercial school go to squat by partnerships and lack of discipline which I was a firm believer of entailing. One other thing that really struck me hard was we had a NINJUTSU guy come to our school for about a year or so, and he seemed to put down everything we taught and didn't like the idea we incorporated weapons as we did. And he stated how "rough" we were!! I just always come up being from a hard core school even in Karate when I was there... So I respectfully bowed out and found this to suite me more.

So to move back towards the topic I think it is the "instructor" or head teacher's decision to teach who he / she feels fit. I think condoning someone to train over age and gender or physical fitness is a bit errogant though. I'd love to have a couple of females that could get in there and mix it up with us as we do. But I've just not had those come knocking on the door yet. Once the females see what we do and teach its respectfully not what they are looking for. But thats ok.. OUR TRAINING IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY evidently. ; )

happy training.

 

[Big Don]

Wow. Some idiot turned away paying customers?
Perhaps there is more to the story than what you got from the two ladies.

 

[rmclain]

I just signed up two ladys from another school today and thought I would share this with all of you.

They came and ask would I train them, I look confused and said yes if you would like.......

Then the lady looked at the other one and said see there are schools out there that would train us....

Again I looked puzzled and said whay would you think schools would not train them...

The lady turns and start laughing and said there other school they was at simply told them they are not the quality of person they wanted after there three month contract and then she went on to stay if you are round, short and have little athletic ability they get kicked out....

I was simply amazed by this approach and told them everybody has a right to train but then again certain trainer have no right to teach a Martial Art if they have these types of views.

What is everybody else take on this?

They probably just encountered a competitive school that wants potential athletes for competition/trophies. I would have interviewed these women to see if maybe there is another reason they were asked to leave, besides their physical shapes. I don't assume that the other school is at fault right away. I would need more information. Sometimes a student with a negative attitude or other intentions can be a huge liability on the training environment/spirit in the dojang. Not worth the money.

I screen potential students at my dojang as well. There is an interview process that includes a free trial lesson. But, this process is mainly to find out their character and reasons/goals for training. It also helps me decide if I instruct what they are seeking. If not, I recommend another school in our area that instructs what they are looking for.

R. McLain

 

[Balrog]

I was simply amazed by this approach and told them everybody has a right to train but then again certain trainer have no right to teach a Martial Art if they have these types of views.

What is everybody else take on this?

All I ask is that they give me 100% effort.

When they start, that 100% effort might be two knee-high front kicks before collapsing from exhaustion. Two months later, 100% might be three mid-thigh front kicks. I'm seeing improvement and I'm seeing perseverance. Man, they lasted two months. I've had students in top shape quit after a month because it was more work than they wanted to do.

I'd be a fool to tell them they aren't good enough for my school.