Train TMA but fight like kickboxer

[JowGaWolf]

There's always a cloud about what's possible by comparing it to MMA and I think people short change themselves when they view techniques from that perspective.

Are my fighting skills Professional MMA quality? I guess it doesn't matter in the reality of the things as most people aren't getting attacked on the streets by MMA fighters. So from that perspective it's not relevant if I'm not fighting a professional MMA fighter.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

In a nutshell. Yes. If you are in your back yard oblique kicking your cousin. You are not john jones.

I don't need to be John Jones to kick the mess out of someone's leg, shin, or knee with an oblique kick (shadowless kick).

I haven’t seen many people that can do that kick very well. Of course I don’t go looking over fences very often either so who knows what I’m missing.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

There's always a cloud about what's possible by comparing it to MMA and I think people short change themselves when they view techniques from that perspective.

Are my fighting skills Professional MMA quality? I guess it doesn't matter in the reality of the things as most people aren't getting attacked on the streets by MMA fighters. So from that perspective it's not relevant if I'm not fighting a professional MMA fighter.

Bingo! If I am getting attacked by pro MMA fighters on the streets of Arcata I’m either doing something very wrong or very right.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

There's always a cloud about what's possible by comparing it to MMA and I think people short change themselves when they view techniques from that perspective.

Are my fighting skills Professional MMA quality? I guess it doesn't matter in the reality of the things as most people aren't getting attacked on the streets by MMA fighters. So from that perspective it's not relevant if I'm not fighting a professional MMA fighter.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I haven’t seen many people that can do that kick very well. Of course I don’t go looking over fences very often either so who knows what I’m missing.

It's one of my favorite kicks. A lot of people aren't good at them because they treat it as a kick that is used to stop someone's forward motion, like keep them at bay.
My vision of that kick is to cause damage. If there kick is at the shin then I want to break the shin. If the kick is at the knee then I want that leg to bend backwards like a crane. It's that type of force that keeps people from advancing. I'm not saying that's the only way to use them. It's just my perspective. In sparring, I focus on timing and accuracy which is important.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok is the obverse also true? That because I have knocked people down on the street that that somehow will transfer to the ring? I’m not sure about that. In any case I’m over 50 and not looking to prove anything to anyone so it’s moot.

I'd say yes. You'd be better equipped in the ring than someone who'd only read about boxing (to continue Steve's analogy), but not as well prepared as someone who trained for that context.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ok is the obverse also true? That because I have knocked people down on the street that that somehow will transfer to the ring? I’m not sure about that. In any case I’m over 50 and not looking to prove anything to anyone so it’s moot.

Of course your street fight experience can be transferred into ring/mat. The sport/competition time frame may be between age 20 - 40. After 40, usually people don't compete any more. The experience can then be carried over into street fight.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My neighbors don't know anything about martial arts so for years they still think I train Karate even though I tell them that I train Kung Fu.

When people asked me, "Do you still do that chop chop stuff?" I truly don't know how to answer it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I have knocked people down on the street that that somehow will transfer to the ring?

I have zero boxing training. I don't have to train in boxing to know how to use jab-cross-hook-uppercut (it's all in my long fist system). I competed in a golden glove boxing once (Liberty Hill, Texas). In that tournament, there were many red necks who also didn't have any boxing training. They just want to test their fighting skill in that tournament environment (I was one of them).

 

[Flying Crane]

I'd say yes. You'd be better equipped in the ring than someone who'd only read about boxing (to continue Steve's analogy), but not as well prepared as someone who trained for that context.

Ah yes. Context matters. That old bug-bear.

 

[Steve]

Oh I’m not suggesting that street fighting is a good way to learn, not at all. It is however, where most of my actual experience came from. To answer your point, I really don’t know how I would perform in a rules based competition. I would say that it’s likely I would be a DQ because I don’t train for a sport. I am hardwired to win at any cost when fighting for real. I have no doubts or delusions about what happens when it’s real. Let me ask you, how much street violence experience you have? I’m not being facetious, I am genuinely curious.

I think you might be right. You'd probably fail. Maybe not. Depends on how close that competition ruleset is to what you know how to do. If you have never grappled at all, and your only experience as a fighter is striking "on the street", and the competition were BJJ, you would almost certainly fail. This seems obvious, but to be clear, it's because the experience you have is not similar to the experience you need in the new context.

Let's make the analogy a little closer to what happens in "self defense." What if you were required to compete with no advance notice, and the stakes were very high for a loss. You're walking along and out of nowhere, you are pulled into an MMA school and made to compete in an MMA match. All they will tell you is if you lose your first match (by DQ or anything else), they beat you and kill your dog. You have no idea who you're fighting against, not his skill level, his size, his level of fitness... nothing. You're just thrown in, told to compete, and informed that you do not want to lose, or else.

As I said, all experience is of some value. But some is more relevant than other's, and there is a difference between academic experience and practical experience.

To answer your question, I'd say more than most, and not as much as some. I was always fighting someone until high school. By the time I got to high school, I was better equipped to manage the gangs, guns, knives, and fights. I still got into a few fights, but talked my way out of most situations. I smoked weed and skipped classes a lot, so when you hang out in pool halls and in dangerous areas, trouble was unavoidable sometimes. I've had knives and guns pulled on me, and fortunately, have been able to manage those situations in one way or another. I also got into some more constructive activities, like the wrestling team and a few years of wing chun. In the military, I found myself in fights more often than I liked, because my friends were drunk idiots. We also had issues in some big cities, because it was Germany during the cold war, and not everyone liked Americans. After that, I have a different kind of experience working for several years with people who are disabled, often homeless, often addicted to alcohol, drugs, or both, and who could be very unpredictable.

But overall, the last 20 years or so have been very quiet.

 

[Steve]

The oblique kick isn't the point. It's the end result... up or down, success or failure. And who is better prepared to succeed.

And ultimately, the point is, if you have limited practical experience fighting, your odds of success in a fight of any kind are very low. Even lower if you were "taught" to fight by someone who also has limited practical experience. And even lower still if the pressure to perform is very high and there are potentially dire consequences for failure.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I think you might be right. You'd probably fail. Maybe not. Depends on how close that competition ruleset is to what you know how to do. If you have never grappled at all, and your only experience as a fighter is striking "on the street", and the competition were BJJ, you would almost certainly fail. This seems obvious, but to be clear, it's because the experience you have is not similar to the experience you need in the new context.

Let's make the analogy a little closer to what happens in "self defense." What if you were required to compete with no advance notice, and the stakes were very high for a loss. You're walking along and out of nowhere, you are pulled into an MMA school and made to compete in an MMA match. All they will tell you is if you lose your first match (by DQ or anything else), they beat you and kill your dog. You have no idea who you're fighting against, not his skill level, his size, his level of fitness... nothing. You're just thrown in, told to compete, and informed that you do not want to lose, or else.

As I said, all experience is of some value. But some is more relevant than other's, and there is a difference between academic experience and practical experience.

To answer your question, I'd say more than most, and not as much as some. I was always fighting someone until high school. By the time I got to high school, I was better equipped to manage the gangs, guns, knives, and fights. I still got into a few fights, but talked my way out of most situations. I smoked weed and skipped classes a lot, so when you hang out in pool halls and in dangerous areas, trouble was unavoidable sometimes. I've had knives and guns pulled on me, and fortunately, have been able to manage those situations in one way or another. I also got into some more constructive activities, like the wrestling team and a few years of wing chun. In the military, I found myself in fights more often than I liked, because my friends were drunk idiots. We also had issues in some big cities, because it was Germany during the cold war, and not everyone liked Americans. After that, I have a different kind of experience working for several years with people who are disabled, often homeless, often addicted to alcohol, drugs, or both, and who could be very unpredictable.

But overall, the last 20 years or so have been very quiet.

I had JJJ and boxing as a kid. I can roll on a lower belt level. I’m more striking than grappling though. I have done well in the past but you know the old saying “there is always someone tougher.“

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The oblique kick isn't the point. It's the end result... up or down, success or failure. And who is better prepared to succeed.

And ultimately, the point is, if you have limited practical experience fighting, your odds of success in a fight of any kind are very low. Even lower if you were "taught" to fight by someone who also has limited practical experience. And even lower still if the pressure to perform is very high and there are potentially dire consequences for failure.

I agree with all but the last. When it’s for real, and it’s dire consequences, I turn on completely. No thoughts. Just go time. I thrive in a high pressure environment.

 

[drop bear]

Ok is the obverse also true? That because I have knocked people down on the street that that somehow will transfer to the ring? I’m not sure about that. In any case I’m over 50 and not looking to prove anything to anyone so it’s moot.

Not as easily. People in the ring can generally fight. Which is a hugely different scenario.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I agree with all but the last. When it’s for real, and it’s dire consequences, I turn on completely. No thoughts. Just go time. I thrive in a high pressure environment.

I think that Competition fear is nothing like Street fear. Street fear is worse at least to me. Lots of uncertainty.

 

[Steve]

I agree with all but the last. When it’s for real, and it’s dire consequences, I turn on completely. No thoughts. Just go time. I thrive in a high pressure environment.

In this case, success is the different context… which means if you get DQ’d that’s a fail.

 

[Steve]

I think that Competition fear is nothing like Street fear. Street fear is worse at least to me. Lots of uncertainty.

I think you’ve missed the point.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That because I have knocked people down on the street that that somehow will transfer to the ring?

When someone is young, he can spar/wrestle 15 rounds daily. Within 3 years, he has 3 x 365 x 15 = 16,425 rounds of sparring/wrestling experience. It's very difficult to have that many street fights experience in our real life.

 

[Steve]

Ok is the obverse also true? That because I have knocked people down on the street that that somehow will transfer to the ring? I’m not sure about that. In any case I’m over 50 and not looking to prove anything to anyone so it’s moot.

It really depends on how good you ACTUALLY are fighting on the street, how much experience you actually have, and how complimentary the skills you have are to the ring. To be clear, “you” is the generic you. Not you in particular.