Tough guy sy

[crazydiamond]

I don't know other MA's or even other Dojo's, but at each stage of training over the last 1.5 years - I feel I know less and feel less certain of my abilities. Particularly in my sparing classes. I was boxing sparing with my instructor last weekend and I felt like I was standing still with my hands down against him - and did not even see his punches coming . At one point he connected pretty good, but still maybe 30% power and he was using 16 oz gloves - and I was rattled/wracked, a bit scared, I even questioned WTF I was doing in MA at all. Yes, I am more worried then ever about ever getting in a real fight. I also feel more respect for professional fighters or anyone willing to get in to a ring.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I don't know other MA's or even other Dojo's, but at each stage of training over the last 1.5 years - I feel I know less and feel less certain of my abilities. Particularly in my sparing classes. I was boxing sparing with my instructor last weekend and I felt like I was standing still with my hands down against him - and did not even see his punches coming . At one point he connected pretty good, but still maybe 30% power and he was using 16 oz gloves - and I was rattled/wracked, a bit scared, I even questioned WTF I was doing in MA at all. Yes, I am more worried then ever about ever getting in a real fight. I also feel more respect for professional fighters or anyone willing to get in to a ring.

For me it changes on who I'm practicing with. When my normal opponents are people who have been practicing 20+ years, I really just how much more I have to learn. When my normal opponents are at my level or below, I tend to forget that there are many people much greater than me. Since a lot of beginners don't practice with the people who are far ahead, or those people are giving them 'training sparring sessions', they tend not to realize just how big the gap is.

 

[Touch Of Death]

For me it changes on who I'm practicing with. When my normal opponents are people who have been practicing 20+ years, I really just how much more I have to learn. When my normal opponents are at my level or below, I tend to forget that there are many people much greater than me. Since a lot of beginners don't practice with the people who are far ahead, or those people are giving them 'training sparring sessions', they tend not to realize just how big the gap is.

You really should train with children and newbies; because learning how not to hurt people is a big part of being a teacher.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I don't know other MA's or even other Dojo's, but at each stage of training over the last 1.5 years - I feel I know less and feel less certain of my abilities. Particularly in my sparing classes. I was boxing sparing with my instructor last weekend and I felt like I was standing still with my hands down against him - and did not even see his punches coming . At one point he connected pretty good, but still maybe 30% power and he was using 16 oz gloves - and I was rattled/wracked, a bit scared, I even questioned WTF I was doing in MA at all. Yes, I am more worried then ever about ever getting in a real fight. I also feel more respect for professional fighters or anyone willing to get in to a ring.

First, you should be glad your instructor is that much better than you. Because you get better by sparring people who are better than you are, and second, because if you can defend against him after only a few years, yikes.

Second, you're probably better than you think. When you spar against someone with less experience than you, you'll see that.

Third, you are a work in progress. Relax. This doesn't come overnight.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You really should train with children and newbies; because learning how not to hurt people is a big part of being a teacher.

Oh, I do a lot. Not currently, but for a while I was the children's instructor, and at my main dojo my sensei always asks me to take the newer students aside and train them while he works with the rest of the class. I love it.

 

[Skullpunch]

I don't know other MA's or even other Dojo's, but at each stage of training over the last 1.5 years - I feel I know less and feel less certain of my abilities. Particularly in my sparing classes. I was boxing sparing with my instructor last weekend and I felt like I was standing still with my hands down against him - and did not even see his punches coming . At one point he connected pretty good, but still maybe 30% power and he was using 16 oz gloves - and I was rattled/wracked, a bit scared, I even questioned WTF I was doing in MA at all. Yes, I am more worried then ever about ever getting in a real fight. I also feel more respect for professional fighters or anyone willing to get in to a ring.

In jiujitsu we call this phenomenon the "douchebag filter". The only way to get good is to have done enough randori to where you've been put in a position several hundred (or even thousand) times where the other guy could literally have killed you if he wanted - and being forced into that situation over and over again force feeds you a kind of humility that you really can't get anywhere else. The guys who come in and want to believe that they're already a badass do not pass this filter, the first time they get tapped by a white belt who's 30 lbs smaller than they are, they leave because their ego can't handle it - that's the very first test you have to pass if you want to have a chance in hell at jiujitsu.

 

[Punchy]

Useless and selfish mewling little oxygen thieves. I like that one. Thanks Bill!!

It makes me want to go hang myself

 

[Rich Parsons]

I am a big guy and always have been bigger than those my own age group my complete life. Lots of younger guys today have my height and even more.

When I was younger, I tried to avoid all conflict. People saw this as a weakness and I got into fights. I tried to change it and in the end I ended up just being quiet, and cultivating a resting neutral face. This did not stop people trying to take out the big guy as I was not presenting a level of confidence or attitude as some might say.

I later added in the belief, that I would survive only it usually would present itself after they had started and could not back down. I would get hurt. They would get hurt worse.

I started martial arts to bleed off some tension for a court case as a witness for a stabbing and also to learn how not to break people when violence was required.

I then learned that walking with a certain level of presented confidence stopped many of the challenge attacks and those looking for fun or to test themselves went elsewhere.
Since the mid 90's the self defense industry tells women to walk with their head up and aware, to be confident and know what is in their surroundings and this makes them less of a target. Guys learn this earlier with normal guy contact sport posturing.

After some martial arts, I dialed back the responses and also gave them more time and in many ways I hesitated. This is when I spent more time in the hospital for the night or later doctor visits for injuries. So I consciously choose to go back to presenting confidence and reacting first. Of course as a bouncer and security guard type this put me in places the average person may not normally go, so atypical examples for myself. I used these jobs as they paid the best in the late 80's for College as well as Grading and Tutoring and such around the school.

Later, as my skills improved, I could control them better and react first or soon enough to limit the damage / threat to me.
I also learned over time better verbal counters to let people know the posturing was not always a posture on my part. Usually admitting that you will be in the hospital and asking if they have as good of insurance as you do, because it was my intent to make sure they were there as well, and hopefully longer.

I have seen to totally oblivious go out and be stalked by bad types fr robbery or assault, and I have seen those who are aware and confident acknowledge the bad types out there, who usually will move on as they are looking for easy marks.

Now, when this confidence is not tested, and or limited in testing, and maybe some alcohol or other substances involved (Which I do not approve of) get into the mix, people get louder and more obnoxious. In these cases it is not the casual walking around confidence this is usually bluster and as Bill stated a representation of their own insecurities.

As with any thing, it depends, and individual experiences will vary, etcetera

 

[Touch Of Death]

I am a big guy and always have been bigger than those my own age group my complete life. Lots of younger guys today have my height and even more.

When I was younger, I tried to avoid all conflict. People saw this as a weakness and I got into fights. I tried to change it and in the end I ended up just being quiet, and cultivating a resting neutral face. This did not stop people trying to take out the big guy as I was not presenting a level of confidence or attitude as some might say.

I later added in the belief, that I would survive only it usually would present itself after they had started and could not back down. I would get hurt. They would get hurt worse.

I started martial arts to bleed off some tension for a court case as a witness for a stabbing and also to learn how not to break people when violence was required.

I then learned that walking with a certain level of presented confidence stopped many of the challenge attacks and those looking for fun or to test themselves went elsewhere.
Since the mid 90's the self defense industry tells women to walk with their head up and aware, to be confident and know what is in their surroundings and this makes them less of a target. Guys learn this earlier with normal guy contact sport posturing.

After some martial arts, I dialed back the responses and also gave them more time and in many ways I hesitated. This is when I spent more time in the hospital for the night or later doctor visits for injuries. So I consciously choose to go back to presenting confidence and reacting first. Of course as a bouncer and security guard type this put me in places the average person may not normally go, so atypical examples for myself. I used these jobs as they paid the best in the late 80's for College as well as Grading and Tutoring and such around the school.

Later, as my skills improved, I could control them better and react first or soon enough to limit the damage / threat to me.
I also learned over time better verbal counters to let people know the posturing was not always a posture on my part. Usually admitting that you will be in the hospital and asking if they have as good of insurance as you do, because it was my intent to make sure they were there as well, and hopefully longer.

I have seen to totally oblivious go out and be stalked by bad types fr robbery or assault, and I have seen those who are aware and confident acknowledge the bad types out there, who usually will move on as they are looking for easy marks.

Now, when this confidence is not tested, and or limited in testing, and maybe some alcohol or other substances involved (Which I do not approve of) get into the mix, people get louder and more obnoxious. In these cases it is not the casual walking around confidence this is usually bluster and as Bill stated a representation of their own insecurities.

As with any thing, it depends, and individual experiences will vary, etcetera

I guess I have a similar experience. I am not quite sure what I am doing but people tend not to mess with me, but that isn't totally true, the braver ones will walk up to me an want to play spar. I always win the game, and I think that is usually where I would get beat up, if they weren't losing so much confidence. I don't know.

 

[drop bear]

I don't know other MA's or even other Dojo's, but at each stage of training over the last 1.5 years - I feel I know less and feel less certain of my abilities. Particularly in my sparing classes. I was boxing sparing with my instructor last weekend and I felt like I was standing still with my hands down against him - and did not even see his punches coming . At one point he connected pretty good, but still maybe 30% power and he was using 16 oz gloves - and I was rattled/wracked, a bit scared, I even questioned WTF I was doing in MA at all. Yes, I am more worried then ever about ever getting in a real fight. I also feel more respect for professional fighters or anyone willing to get in to a ring.

You are probably getting flinchy. Fight to win. Not to not loose.

 

[crazydiamond]

You are probably getting flinchy. Fight to win. Not to not loose.

Probably true, the owner of the dojo was watching and said I was being too defensive, and to move in more and mix it up as I am a big guy and can use this. My instructor has 20+ years, a number professional and street fights in his past. I am lucky my instructor is a nice guy but he also said I need to get in it a bit more. So ya I am "flinchy" (thats a nice way to describe it) as I have never been hit before in my life, and I am not a young man anymore . I did do "ok" with my fellow students who were also being a bit flinchy. My instructor pushed us all a bit more when he took turns with us.

We have fairly large classes with many students. However less than 20% (might be 10%) of our class attend the sparing sessions due to issues with dealing with actual contact with an opponent. I really understand their aversion, particularly us older guys. But its something I needed to overcome - a long time ago, but better late than never.

As to the point of this thread overconfidence - I think a little humility and ego adjustment about fighting a opponent- should come with any good MA training. Perhaps not - if you never really spar with a senior partner in your MA? I think it was Mike Tyson who responded to hearing his opponent's plans on how to fight him..."Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face".

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Sounds to me like you're progressing just fine. Go get hit some more. Throw a few yourself. Everything furthers.

 

[drop bear]

Probably true, the owner of the dojo was watching and said I was being too defensive, and to move in more and mix it up as I am a big guy and can use this. My instructor has 20+ years, a number professional and street fights in his past. I am lucky my instructor is a nice guy but he also said I need to get in it a bit more. So ya I am "flinchy" (thats a nice way to describe it) as I have never been hit before in my life, and I am not a young man anymore . I did do "ok" with my fellow students who were also being a bit flinchy. My instructor pushed us all a bit more when he took turns with us.

We have fairly large classes with many students. However less than 20% (might be 10%) of our class attend the sparing sessions due to issues with dealing with actual contact with an opponent. I really understand their aversion, particularly us older guys. But its something I needed to overcome - a long time ago, but better late than never.

As to the point of this thread overconfidence - I think a little humility and ego adjustment about fighting a opponent- should come with any good MA training. Perhaps not - if you never really spar with a senior partner in your MA? I think it was Mike Tyson who responded to hearing his opponent's plans on how to fight him..."Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face".

It is not unusual. I do it myself for the same reasons. But if you loose good structure when you get hit it hurts more. You loose good structure by doing contortions trying to escape strikes.

And for some reason people often never get told this.

 

[Touch Of Death]

It is not unusual. I do it myself for the same reasons. But if you loose good structure when you get hit it hurts more. You loose good structure by doing contortions trying to escape strikes.

And for some reason people often never get told this.

No, they told us. LOL Covering is very easy, and keeps you neutral to danger for longer periods of time.

 

[drop bear]

No, they told us. LOL Covering is very easy, and keeps you neutral to danger for longer periods of time.

Yeah but you cover forwards not backwards. Even if you are moving backwards.

(There is more to eating punches but this is the simplest idea. So while this is not technically true it is true for a working model)

Your head is pretty much designed to eat shots straight on forehead forwards chin down. The most simple reason for this is because head movement causes concussion.

If you do grappling twisting the chin offline is how you weaken the structure of the neck.

If the structure of the neck is weakened the head will move and punches have more effect. So to knock people out you are trying to make the shot slightly off line. And to defend you are trying to keep the head on line.

This is why covering works. (OK hands up helps)

Now if you are flinching. Your head is generally trying to find a way to escape the punch. The only way to do this is to move off line. Making any punch that connects worse.

So these 30% punches that rock people are generally the fault of being hit while you have poor structure. And the poor structure can be caused psychologically by being overwhelmed by the striking of your oponant.

 

[Paul_D]

Most people I know and encounter have this grand sense of confidence about self defense. I know an old man who gets winded getting out of his chair, but thinks he could win a fight against young, athletic men without being hurt. I've met people who have never been in a physical confrontation, but are sure they could "handle themselves" if the need arises. In fact, that was my attitude when I was younger, especially when I started martial arts. Why do people think this way? I am not well traveled, is this an American thing, or people in general? Can you really know your own capabilities without the occasional brawl?

What does brawling in the street have to do with self defence? Brawling in the street is illegal, self defence is legal. The goal of brawling is to "beat" your opponent, the goal of self defence is to create the opportunity to escape. They are two different things that require different physical skills. You are confusing the two. Brawling is not self defence.

Thinking like a Criminal (podcast) | Iain Abernethy

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Can you really know your own capabilities without the occasional brawl?

If you spar/wrestle 15 rounds daily, your winning record will give you the confidence.

- If you have taken down your opponent 1,000 times, you will predict that the 1,001 try you will have great chance to take your opponent down too.
- If your opponent has punched on your head 1,000 times and you are still standing, you will predict that the 1,001 punch that will land on your head may still not be able to knock you down.
- If you have spent 3 hours working on your heavy bag daily, you will know that your punch will be more power than the average people.
- ...

In other words, your hard work will give you the confidence.