How do you Handle the New "Tough" Guys or Crazies?

[jarrod]

you're not one of those really fast fat guys, are you? i hate sparring them. my internal monologue is always like: "crap, he's pretty big, maybe i can out quick him. *BAM* nope, i guess not."

the irony is that i'm slowly turning into a fast fat guy myself. my hope is to put it off 20-30 years, then i can be a fast fat old guy.

jf

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have seen the put the two guys together and let them hurt each other, and see if they learn anything.

I have also seen that they only work with a senior person who can control the situation.

I have also seen people just block hard enough that everytime the reach out strong they get hurt or they end up on the floor as their energy is used against them. But this usually takes someone with more skill set as above.


I even talk to them and ask them to play nice and work with others.

When it does not work we ask them to leave.


*****


I do have a story where everyone thought I was that bruiser. I was at a TKD open training on a Saturday. My friend had stopped training in TKD at Red Belt Black Stripe but had continued in other arts. The Senior Master ahd asked him to at least get his Black Belt and then he could "retire" as he called it. So, I went along as a lo color belt in Modern Arnis and was concerned about the differences. I was introduced the most of the seniors, but one came in from warming up elsewhere and took over to start the training.

As I was wearing my Rank from Modern Arnis, I knew how many belts up it was, so I lined up with the same number of ranks in the TKD system. I also lined up junior to all those in that rank. The 4th leading and starting the class was upset I was not properly lined up. (* Note: Everyone was wearing traditional White top and bottom, I was wearing Red Bottom and White Top. *) So, as not to cause a scene I lined up Junior with my "Color" on my hip. I looked at it like a good thing, hoping I could work with seniors and learn more.

They started with Forms. Opps. I knew nothing about that systems forms. I was soon relagated back to the White Belts to learn the first form. (* Note: Each time I tried to explain that I was from a different system and as a friend of a guest invited by the Senior that I did not know. Most ignored me and just gave instructions. So I listend and tried my Best. Sometimes doing OK, others times I coudl hear the laughter from those who were wondering about the "Color" on my hip.

After this we went to one and three steps. (* This was back in the mid-80's *) At first it was prescribed what we were to do, strike this way and then counter that way. So, I did it as told. Later, we were told to do what we knew to allow us to practice what we wanted. So, I started steping 45 degrees, and trapping and parrying versus blocks. One of the Black Belts saw this and moved me up to be with those that had the same color as me. (* I think the BB had been out of the room earlier and missed all the above as he was training in a separate room *).

The guy I was put with, was not going to have this "person" who could not do simple forms show up now and show him up. So, he started hitting real hard. I asked him if I could block his counters? He said no. So, when it was my turn I hit him back. This caused him to take it up a level. Soon it was just close to a fight. It might have been on his side, but I was still using control and not looking to permanent damage just looking to make sure it was felt.

We rotated people to work with. The new guy was not going to be shown up either and when he added in a sweep on the GYM floor and took me to the ground, I asked if throws were allowed. He said anything we knew was allowed. So, I did a throw back to him. A nice arm bar take down no real force to hurt him. He came back with a harder sweep. I then worked on an elbow strike to the head. I did not make contact. He came back even harder. I then threw him to the floor. He did not know how to fall. I reached down apologized and told him I was sorry and asked if he needed help. Boy was that the wrong thing to do.

So, one of the Black Belts moved me up a color range. So I was now sparring with people of a much higher color. These guys did not want anything to do with me. As always I was a guest and let them go first. I wanted to see what was expected. The first guy hit me so hard in the head, it hurt. I just smiled. I dropped him with a arm/leg throw/sweep. The same Black Belt then moved me to a different person. This guy came at me hard. I put up my hands to block and defend myself. He walked into my elbow. I was moved again. This guy and I exchanged punches and kicks. He said no throws.

At this time I was moved again to the rank just under Black. The Red Belt - Black Stripe. These guys had more control, but were looking to make sure I knew they were ready for BB and knew more than I. It was a little blurry here it started to repeat much of what happend before. We started Continuous sparring at this point. Whole class, not rank associated.

The Black Belt moved me up with him. I was then to do continuous sparring with them. The younger guy that kept moving me up started out and he was good, and it was fun to spar him but we were exchanging and the tempo was getting faster and harder. A Thrid Degree came over and moved me up to the second degrees. The first guy started hard and it was lots of more fun of hitting each other. In there similar story happened and we got separated. I was then to spar with a older 2nd degree. The man asked me to not hit him in the head. He also said he did not want to be hit hard. That we would work on our timing and control. I siad yes Sir. I did not hit him in the head. I made sure if contact was made it was very light. He enjoyed the sparring as did I.

I then was able to spar with the Third Degree, but he just played with me. He was able to pick his spots and hit on his desire. He said I would control the timing and the level of contact. If I did get to hard, I would apologize, and here the too hard was not 50% of earlier. It was just not what I had wanted. He would smile and acknowledge that I was recognizing my mistake. When we were done, he smiled and put his hand around me and said he did not expect to like me or enjoy working with me and watching me learn. He had seen me "work my way" through the students there, and he thought I was a bully there to hurt others. But when he saw me not hit the 2nd degree when he asked me he was going to give me a chance without "teaching me a lesson."

He did teach me and help that day. But it was not my intent to have ended up where I did when I started that day.



Thanks

Hey Rich I am pretty sure I know where this happened.

 

[KenpoDave]

my mistake!

jungle style could have all kinds of awesome sounding technique names like "python fist" or "fish that swims up your peehole kick"!

jf

That's my favorite kick!

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hey Rich I am pretty sure I know where this happened.

True, you do. But, the names of those involved were not removed to protect any innocence or guilt, but that they did not matter to the subject at hand. So I choose not to bring anyone into the discussion, for something that happened 20+ years ago. You know me, admit my own guilt to show a point, but save others any issues. :asian:

 

[tellner]

Jungle style?

Alright! I wanna do the Six Animal version:

Elephant: Be big enough that nobody messes with you. In case of trouble call in a dozen even bigger friends

Lion: OK, that's savanna, but close enough. Go for the young, the old and the sick. Attack from ambush. Break off if it starts taking too much energy. Let the girls do most of the work.

Jackson's Chameleon: Blend in and hope nobody notices you. Practice moving your eyes in different directions.

Monkey: Hide up in the trees. Fling dung and rotten fruit at pursuers. Mob anyone who gets too close.

Poison Arrow Frog: Be so damned poisonous that nobody will even think of hurting you. Wear a flashy suit everyone knows it's you.

Wildebeest: With a couple hundred thousand close friends nearby there's a good chance the lion will eat someone else.

 

[DavidCC]

Jungle style?

Alright! I wanna do the Six Animal version:

Elephant: Be big enough that nobody messes with you. In case of trouble call in a dozen even bigger friends

Lion: OK, that's savanna, but close enough. Go for the young, the old and the sick. Attack from ambush. Break off if it starts taking too much energy. Let the girls do most of the work.

Jackson's Chameleon: Blend in and hope nobody notices you. Practice moving your eyes in different directions.

Monkey: Hide up in the trees. Fling dung and rotten fruit at pursuers. Mob anyone who gets too close.

Poison Arrow Frog: Be so damned poisonous that nobody will even think of hurting you. Wear a flashy suit everyone knows it's you.

Wildebeest: With a couple hundred thousand close friends nearby there's a good chance the lion will eat someone else.

I think you underestimate monkeys. I saw a documentary the other day about monkey wars - between groups of monkeys - they will kill other monkeys with their bare hands and eat their enemies. I was surprised at the ferocity, it was almost beyond animal, nearly human-level aggression.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Every so often we get someone coming in that wants to punch the crap out of people without any restraint. They love to go against the lower belts and wail away. Now I'm not talking about "challenge matches" etc., but guys who sign up for class and just like to hurt people.

We've had two in recent memory at our school. One is an older guy that never seemed to get the idea that we were there to train and that there wasn't anything riding on the outcome of a regular sparring session. He loved to throw hard punches and kicks and tackle people into the metal chairs. Then when one of us black belts would spar with him and give him what he gave us, he'd claim that he'd run out of gas after about 30 seconds of being on the receiving end. I always tell the new guys or lower belts that they can set the pace and amount of force and I'll match myself to them. I'm always amused at the guys who want to come in and throw hard and fast punches and kicks after we've gone back and forth and they get it in their heads that I'm not much of a threat. That's when I say, "Oh you want to crank up the pace?" Then I go moderately hard for about five to ten seconds. That tends to take the starch out of them.

The other one really took the cake. Let's call him "Nutbag" because he claimed that he was a black belt in TKD among other things, and he didn't seem to know anything. He didn't know what a forward stance was, and he seemed to only have one type of kick that he threw poorly. (When I showed him a forward stance, he said that they used to call them "Jungle Stances"). He had no typical black belt etiquette, etc. Anyways, this guy really liked to go after people sparring. Never stopped when "break" was called. Tackled people after the round was over (and broke a door doing this one night) and when he would go against anyone a lot better than him, would "get winded" after 30 seconds and have to sit down. This guy finally left when John Bishop told him to go home if he was too tired to continue and to make sure to bring his black belt certificate next time. He left in a huff saying that he'd been "disrespected." ---Yawn---

So what stories do you guys have? How do/did you handle it?

Damn, Dan. I'm wondering if we might not have had the same "TKD" guy visit. Big ole butter ball who could only get his side kick up to knee height, so he kept taking it as his only shot, going harder at the knee than he ought to have. I just kept moving my leg and countering to the open groin (fade to the inside, lifting heel scoop with simultaneous backfist to head...more to obscure his view of the heel than to actually hit), and inviting him to explore his other tools or options. My AI, on the other hand, decided the tub-o-goo needed to be educated on what happens to annoying self-aggrandizers, so he threw him (the guy also supposedly had a judo background, which would mean he could breakfall appropriately)...he broke his fall by driving his elbow into the ground, popping the bursa so that the thing filled up like a water balloon. Of course, we apologized profusely.

In a BJJ club I was in (HB), we had a big old construction working wrassler come in. Big guy, lots of aggression, lots of physical strength. Tried to squeeze and crush everything. Instructor put me with him, saying I needed the workout, and NOT to submit him...just also don't get submitted myself. So he and I rolled for about 45 minutes of freeplay, him trying to crush me with brute strength, me waiting for him to tire from over-exertion, and using lots of dirty play tricks to grind on tender spots, etc., while he was crushing. From a strictly ego-driven place, the night ended with him bragging that...at least I didn't get him in anything; he's sure his strength was what helped him dominate me. So, we had a match...about a minute till he yelped submission (apparently, no one told him how to tap, so he did the "OK!OK!OK!OK!" thing instead...of course, me kneeling on the hand of the arm I wasn't barring may have had something to do with it ).

Another fun one was in a sticks session with Master Sam (Mr. Bishop will remember him). We had a guy come in who liked to play rough, so Sam went with him a bit...very few guys as unkind to their partners as Sam. Always had a rep with the FMA crew for being a little too exuberant in his drills. That ended fast.

D.