To those who don't care about belt rank

[ballen0351]

People who work hard should be appreciated.

You dont need a belt to show your work is appreciated. Or was nobody appreciated prior to the belt system?

 

[Dirty Dog]

So then regardless of your motivation. In that a comment has made you upset that is still you stance in this. And to a certain extent I disagree.

I have no idea what you're saying.

And feel that achieving belts can be important in martial arts as a recognition of skill or even as service in some cases.

That achieving belt status can be important to people an for a few reasons there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't recall anybody saying that there is anything wrong with belts. Strawman much?

What's wrong is when people are focused on the belt, rather than the skill.

It's really not that difficult a concept.

People who work hard should be appreciated.

Belts are a modern concept. Do you imagine skill wasn't appreciated before the belts were adopted?

 

[PhotonGuy]

In theory you need the skill set to get the belt.

What if the military just got rid of war medals? The soldiers are just as skilled and a medal is just a piece of tin.

That is not the best analogy. A better analogy would be if the military got rid of rank. That would be the equivalent of a martial arts school getting rid of belts.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

That is not the best analogy. A better analogy would be if the military got rid of rank. That would be the equivalent of a martial arts school getting rid of belts.

Ehh - not so much. The military is a hierarchical system, with ranks being part of what determines who gets to give orders to whom. There are martial arts schools out there which try to emulate that sort of hierarchy, but I would never attend one.

 

[PhotonGuy]

That's good if you want to become a black belt, or a 2nd degree black belt or a instructor but certainly once you cleared your goal what's next? It's good to want to be higher but skill comes first. I too would appreciate the Dan ranking. I'm curious is it the belt your after or knowing your skilled because of the belt

What comes next? After I've reached my goal of reaching a certain rank or becoming an instructor ect. the next thing for me would be to just get better in general. At that point I just want to keep improving but my goal at this point would be more abstract, not clearly defined by rank.

 

[drop bear]

I have no idea what you're saying.



I don't recall anybody saying that there is anything wrong with belts. Strawman much?

What's wrong is when people are focused on the belt, rather than the skill.

It's really not that difficult a concept.



Belts are a modern concept. Do you imagine skill wasn't appreciated before the belts were adopted?

Why is it wrong to be focused on the belt?

And how is it a choice between belt and skill. In theory it takes skill to achieve the belt.

I know in some cases it really doesn't. But I am talking about the ones that do.

 

[ballen0351]

Why is it wrong to be focused on the belt?

And how is it a choice between belt and skill. In theory it takes skill to achieve the belt.

I know in some cases it really doesn't. But I am talking about the ones that do.

Why is it wrong not to worry about the belt? Focus on the Skill and the belts will come. As you said in some cases belts dont = Skill

 

[drop bear]

Why is it wrong not to worry about the belt? Focus on the Skill and the belts will come. As you said in some cases belts dont = Skill

It is not. It is a personal choice. Both are as valid a reason as the other.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Just for the record, and not wanting to derail, but in Traditional Chinese Martial Arts there are no belt ranks.

 

[ballen0351]

Just for the record, and not wanting to derail, but in Traditional Chinese Martial Arts there are no belt ranks.

Impossible How do you know how skillful you are or what class you belong in or how good you are?

 

[Xue Sheng]

You just do, you just train and the more you learn and the more you understand the better you get. Like other MA styles the judge is the teacher, applications and in some cases sparing.

Have not seen a belt rank in all but 1 CMA school (and that one dropped the idea later) I have trained at, and there has been a few, and I have run into some Damn good fighters. Also no belt ranks at the JKD school I trained at briefly either and those guys were incredibly serious.

 

[drop bear]

You just do, you just train and the more you learn and the more you understand the better you get. Like other MA styles the judge is the teacher, applications and in some cases sparing.

Have not seen a belt rank in all but 1 CMA school (and that one dropped the idea later) I have trained at, and there has been a few, and I have run into some Damn good fighters. Also no belt ranks at the JKD school I trained at briefly either and those guys were incredibly serious.

Serious as in how many days a week?

Moving into the concept of goal setting. Guys at my gym who fight are six days a week serious. Got a mate who grades is the same. Massive amounts of training. And they tend to get real gains because of it because the belt or the fight is important.

Everybody else has to lift their game because we as a team have to prep the guy. To be honest it gets really uncomfortable. But that is what is necessary to get the job done

Is there any equivalent in the cma or jkd?

 

[hoshin1600]

last time i checked Eric Clapton didnt have a rank in guitar playing. either did stevie ray vaughan, les paul or chet atkins. do you think they need one? does anyone who is a true artist like that feel they need a ranking? but, but , but ....what about goal setting and being acknowledged for the skill they have? im not against belts and ranking but they are the frosting on the cake, you usually buy the frosting..just like a belt...and if the cake sucks the cake sucks and the frosting aint gonna help. when your new to martial arts a belt can make you feel good, but guess what, thats all it is , a feel good reward. just like little johnny who gets a trophy for participation. ranking can be important within an organization, but then we get into politics. once you have been around the block a few times you start to see the political motivations for higher ranks. rank or belts will never and can never be an indicator on how well you will fair in the real world if you need to defend yourself. anyone who thinks different is fooling themselves and have been fooled by their instructor into beliveing it. BELTS AND RANKS ARE NOT REAL!!!! if you want to test this out, quit your dojo and go join another from another style and see if the instructor will allow you to maintain your currant rank and status. then try going down to the wrong side of town and go into a bar and proclaim your rank and title to the patrons and tell them what a bad *** you are in the dojo. i am sure you will find out real fast how good those long belts are for lowering your casket into the ground.
but i digress..belts are super i think everyone should have one..

 

[Hand Sword]

Watch the original Karate Kid. Mr. Miyagi puts it right when Daniel asks about what belt does he have.
"Leather.. JC Penny"
Then says "Karate here (pointing to head), Karate Here (Pointing to heart), Karate never here (points to waist).. You understand?"

 

[drop bear]

last time i checked Eric Clapton didnt have a rank in guitar playing. either did stevie ray vaughan, les paul or chet atkins. do you think they need one? does anyone who is a true artist like that feel they need a ranking? but, but , but ....what about goal setting and being acknowledged for the skill they have? im not against belts and ranking but they are the frosting on the cake, you usually buy the frosting..just like a belt...and if the cake sucks the cake sucks and the frosting aint gonna help. when your new to martial arts a belt can make you feel good, but guess what, thats all it is , a feel good reward. just like little johnny who gets a trophy for participation. ranking can be important within an organization, but then we get into politics. once you have been around the block a few times you start to see the political motivations for higher ranks. rank or belts will never and can never be an indicator on how well you will fair in the real world if you need to defend yourself. anyone who thinks different is fooling themselves and have been fooled by their instructor into beliveing it. BELTS AND RANKS ARE NOT REAL!!!! if you want to test this out, quit your dojo and go join another from another style and see if the instructor will allow you to maintain your currant rank and status. then try going down to the wrong side of town and go into a bar and proclaim your rank and title to the patrons and tell them what a bad *** you are in the dojo. i am sure you will find out real fast how good those long belts are for lowering your casket into the ground.
but i digress..belts are super i think everyone should have one..

Eric Clapton is ranked no 4. According to rolling stone.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/l...31/eric-clapton-20101202eric-clapton-20101202


Otherwise a dojo storm is usually not the most grown up thing to do.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpNQAw1IxiM

 

[Hand Sword]

Good point to bring up! To Fans, that "rank" would seem ridiculous. To others, they wouldn't see why he's "ranked" at all. Still others, agree to being on the "rank" list but would friendly debate the number. Point is, ranking is something that we all do in any format sports, generations, etc.... All it really comes down to is that rank is subjective at best. One school says you're a black belt, one says your skills are weak. I've seen great Black Belts and ones that are terrible and stumble around like fools with horrible basics. In their world, they are the cat's meow. It all depends on one's perception. The viewer's, the beholdolder's... it's all subjective and changes person to person. In the end, it just depends on how you see it or yourself. If it makes you happy, and you give something acknowledgent-- it's real! (to you)

 

[Xue Sheng]

Serious as in how many days a week?

Moving into the concept of goal setting. Guys at my gym who fight are six days a week serious. Got a mate who grades is the same. Massive amounts of training. And they tend to get real gains because of it because the belt or the fight is important.

Everybody else has to lift their game because we as a team have to prep the guy. To be honest it gets really uncomfortable. But that is what is necessary to get the job done

Is there any equivalent in the cma or jkd?

Yes there is...

 

[ballen0351]

Eric Clapton is ranked no 4. According to rolling stone.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/l...31/eric-clapton-20101202eric-clapton-20101202


Otherwise a dojo storm is usually not the most grown up thing to do.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpNQAw1IxiM

Ranking and belt color have nothing to do with each other.

 

[MJS]

And that is why I would not train under somebody who would just hand out belts because they want my money.

Neither would I. Of course, this means, doing research and making sure the person you're training under isn't a joke. How many people actually take the time to do this?

 

[MJS]

That is not the best analogy. A better analogy would be if the military got rid of rank. That would be the equivalent of a martial arts school getting rid of belts.

I agree with Tony...this isn't a good analogy. Rank, be it in a dojo, a PD or Military, is simply a visual sign, denoting where someone stands. It does not, however, mean that the student is capable of defending themselves or that the person in the Military is going to be a good decision maker. I've seen more than my share of Sgt's and LT's in the PD that a nothing more than micro managers.