As you know, MT has rules in place for everyone to follow. If you're posts are against what the rules state, then yes, you most likely, as would anyone else, receive a PM from the staff here. Its not rocket science. I mean, if I tell someone to **** off in 5 different threads, thats a pretty rude post dont ya think? Not saying that is what you did, but read thru some of your past posts, and see if they violate the rules.
TMA vs. RBSD vs. MMA
- Thread starter Dark Gift Concepts
- Start date
As you know, MT has rules in place for everyone to follow. If you're posts are against what the rules state, then yes, you most likely, as would anyone else, receive a PM from the staff here. Its not rocket science. I mean, if I tell someone to **** off in 5 different threads, thats a pretty rude post dont ya think? Not saying that is what you did, but read thru some of your past posts, and see if they violate the rules.
It would have to be TMA for all the wrong reason to most, TMA is a complete art with structure and the ability to adapt my training to any circunstance, done all of them RBSD, TMA, New hit of the week and also flavor of the month as a matter of facts one more flavor and another hole punch and I recieve one free. That is how long I have been training, seen everything and been almost everywhere. What I fail to relize in my earlier days all alot of folks did was re-invent the wheel to there liking took out what they liked and took out what they believed to be useless.
MMA is great but before it was MMA is was Jujitsu and then wrestling and roman greco and so on and so on. I love MA for the strangest reasons, first is to make friendship that will last forever, second for those friends to be all over the world so when I travel I have a place to train and lastly just to train, I and nobody else can tell you how you will react if something happens even if you been in a couple of street fights the stituation changes from fight to fight so no-one can predict how they will do, what we do is prepare for the worst and hope it never comes.
I bid you good fellow goodbye and lets move on to a productive thread about beer and ladys.
MMA is great but before it was MMA is was Jujitsu and then wrestling and roman greco and so on and so on. I love MA for the strangest reasons, first is to make friendship that will last forever, second for those friends to be all over the world so when I travel I have a place to train and lastly just to train, I and nobody else can tell you how you will react if something happens even if you been in a couple of street fights the stituation changes from fight to fight so no-one can predict how they will do, what we do is prepare for the worst and hope it never comes.
I bid you good fellow goodbye and lets move on to a productive thread about beer and ladys.
This is how I feel. There's more depth. It provides me a great way to answer "What If...?" questions. It keeps me motivated and interested--I think I'd get bored with an art like boxing or Muay Thai or Krav Maga that seem to me to have a fairly short technique list. Perhaps a practitioner would differ on the number of techniques in those arts; and, those arts seem very effective! There's a lot to be said for a small syllabus and mastering all of it. But there's also a lot to be said from learning what has worked over a long period of time and finding a way to make that tradition work for you.
I much prefer TMAs for me but recommend both TMAs and RBSDs and occasionally MMAs (which I interpret pretty narrowly in the sense of the UFC, as otherwise most every art is mixed with something else).
bowser666
2nd Black Belt
There isn't a section on beer and ladies in here ? Oh wait thats that other forum ROFL.
Dark Gift Concepts
Orange Belt
Agreed and I hope the other's who are just being the same as I get the same treatment, I went to the local Barnes an Knoble and asked a few passer by's to read thru my PURE thread as well as the 2 other top ones here.
I was told on numerous times that it was unbiased that I was being treated as such when others clearly are being rude from the get go.
Better put one lady told me " it is like your walking into a church full of jews and your asking them to listen to a Catholic point of view, your lucky you haven't been burned".
To say out of 10 people 2 did agree that I am a bit to much for this site..sorry for that.
We do our best to enforce rules as evenly as possible.
Well, the Okinawan Karate styles were being formally codified around the time that Judo was. Shorin-ryu is probably older and Goju-ryu is a contemporary; Isshin-ryu is more recent and Uechi-ryu is, as usual, an outlier (younger than Judo by that name but older in its largely equivalent Chinese form). TKD dates from the 1940s but its lineage is Shotokan Karate which itself is a modified version of Okinawan Karate. It's complicated!
I don't think it need be Asian, though I think people usually do mean that when they say something is a TMA. I think 'traditional' is a feeling and an approach--a modification of an older art (even today's Shorin-ryu is not the same as the 19th century's version) that preserves its traditions and technqiues and training methods, rather than taking only a part of the art and approaching it in a new way. Ashihara Karate is from 1980 but I'd consider it traditional due to the relative continuity of technique and approach. By now I'd call Judo traditional; in 1890, maybe not. This is probably something that falls under "we know it when we see it".
[/quote]And again, what about combining traditional styles? If I crosstrained with Kyokushin Karate, BJJ and Shuai Jiao, would I be a TMA'ist or an MMA'er?[/quote]
The first and last are TMAs; BJJ is not, in my opinion, because although it's mostly Judo mixed with some wrestling the approach is so different. If you crosstrained Kyokushin Karate and Shuai Jiao and combined them successfully in your practice then I'd call you a MMAer doing two TMAs and making your own MMA from them. If you kept them separate I'd call you a TMAer.
I don't claim that everything I've said is fully consistent! There are many grey areas, and points on which reasonable people could disagree.
This is a bit off topic, but I'm going to say it anyways and then we should return to our regularly scheduled program.
1) As Bob said, we do our best to be fair across the board.
2) The rules were agreed upon before anyone joins this forum. If someone fails to read them or ignore them after they've been pointed out to people, shame on them.
3) If someone has a concern about a post or member, hit the RTM or contact an Admin. Debating the rules or members actions in a thread isn't the way to go. Feel free to contact Bob, myself, Lisa or Shesulsa.
4) I highly doubt that the people at B&N know the full story of the recent problem threads, in addition to the way MT is run.
5) It is not MT policy to discuss actions taken on members, with other members.
6) Before this gets any more off track, RTMs come in and as a last resort, threads locked, can we all PLEASE act like adults, follow the rules of this place, and have a good debate?
Thanks
Ok now that is bang out of order! I'm not going to RTM that but please understand I find it offensive that you repeated it on here.
For your information the Jews would listen politely, then quite likely debate it with you however they would not offer you violence because the views you hold are different from ours. Then you'd be offered refreshments as a guest. the discussions would eb ively, learned and educated but good humoured...mmm just like MT!
I daresay people would agree with you seeing as you are showing them a martial arts artilce, likely they felt threatened!
I certainly think so. Wing Chun was developed (it's said) in part to be able to quickly train soldiers with a simple yet effective system for combat--it was RBSD! Now it's traditional but no less effective for it, save that the environmental conditions have changee and some very tradition-bound instructors may not adapt to that. If they keep it pristine to preserve a tradition, that's fine--as long as they're up-front about it.
Judo was a MMA initially, I think, but is surely a TMA today. Look at how JKD has been formalized...it happens. The new becomes old.
Dark Gift Concepts
Orange Belt
I meant no disrespect at all, I was as surprised as you when she told me as I thought there was a more tactful way of getting her point across. For me sharing and her ignorance I apologize to you or anyone.
bowser666
2nd Black Belt
It is sad that certain threads are getting out of hand. Can't we all just have a nice debate and not take things personally. At the same time people need to understand the multi-cultural , diverse audience that is present on these forums and always post in a respectful manner. Avoiding things like religion ( except where appropriately designated in forums) and potential landmine topics. Orientation, religion, politics,etc...... ? SOmetimes things like that just don't belong in a debate as they aren't the issue nor relevant. I personally do not like seeing ignorant statements either. I do my best to avoid them in RL as well as in a forum.
Probably. After all, most of our current TMA are really less than 100 years old. (Yeah, I know, some claim to go back thousands of years, but those bits were less organized 'way back then'. Alot of the TMA are combinations of techniques and family 'secrets'.). I see todays MMA styles formalizing, organizing their drills (kata) and developing set curiculums, as they age. IMO, the RBSD's will do the same, as they too develop, and start filling in all the "What If's" that the TMA already have.
Dark Gift Concepts
Orange Belt
Feel the same way, you can almost feel it as you can see it happening.
No worries.
As far as MMA kata is concerned can anyone think of what they would consist of? Like Judo's Kime No kata? Interesting!
yep a blatent attempt to draw the thread off the path it was on lol! ( but MMA kata would be interesting all the same!)
The Last Legionary
All warfare is based on deception.<br><b>nemo malu
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Take a couple of flow drills, and put them together. Instant Kata.
Just don't tell the hardcore folks. They get their knickers in a knot when you say that to them it seems.
Just don't tell the hardcore folks. They get their knickers in a knot when you say that to them it seems.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Do a similar search for Shotokan Karate, Isshin Ryu Karate, Tae Kwon Do or several of the other acknowledged "Traditional Martial Arts."
I think I was pretty clear with what I was saying, that
Judo is among the oldest of the modern styles, predating most (if not all) of the okinawan karate styles as well as TKD. Right?
So then, by this definition, both modern Judo and BJJ are traditional Martial Arts. I would agree. I also agree with you that modern Boxing, along with other Western Arts, would qualify as Traditional.
I don't think that our definition is widely accepted, however.
Fair enough. What I was driving at is that there are some funny misconceptions about what is a TMA and what isn't. People consider these styles of Okinawan Karate to be TMA. Judo is 50/50, but people don't consider BJJ to be traditional. TKD is, but boxing often isn't. Which is why I was asking these questions. I don't understand how anyone can answer the questions when we're using terms that aren't well defined.arnisador said:
Very interesting. Thanks for the response! I completely understand your perspective.
So, what distinguishes Judo in your mind from BJJ? BJJ is all Judo, really. Well, pre WW2 Judo or modern, Kosen Judo depending upon who you ask. It's a different focus, to be sure, with a different ruleset for competition and an emphasis on a part of combat that has been marginalized in modern, competitive Judo. But essentially, BJJ, like modern Judo, is a derivative of Pre-WW2 Judo. The culture is different, but just as traditional.
I would argue that many people don't consider BJJ's approach as a TMA only because the culture of Brazil and of BJJ are not what we traditionally think of when we think martial arts. But as at least a couple of people have said, TMA in their opinion (as in mine) doesn't have to be of Asian origin to be traditional, and by extension then, it stands to reason that a TMA from somewhere else will have a culture and tradition unlike the Asian arts.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Many school owners are already thinking about this. John Will, down in Australia, keeps a blog that I really enjoy reading. One article he wrote a few months back addresses many of these issues as he (wisely) thinks about the future of his school and the codification of MMA.
http://bjj-australia.blogspot.com/2008/04/new-combative-epidemic.html
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
As was Xingyiquan and I believe also Bajiquan
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