Titles Master or Grand Master

[terryl965]

What is all the fuss over a title?:erg:

Can a title realy be earned?

Can a title really be bought?

Can a title really give you all the students in the world?:shrug:


I'am asking these question for a simple reason, why do any of us need these title and what is the sole purpose of them? I mean we have more GM in the Art or sport of TKD than any other Martial Art programs, which means we have more Masters as well, to date there are over 670 TKD organization which has more than 3500 GM across the globe more each day.

Each instructor teaches to the best of there ability and if so and so does not like you than your title falls into one of these catagorys above. My sole purpose of this thread is to try and shedd some light on this whole title nonsense.

It is said that a Certificate is only as good as the paper it is written on, well with the cost of inflation that would be about $1.25, so for a mear dollar or so we are wiling to be used by higher ups to get what we feel is necessary in our Art but wait there is more, if we have admiration of Olympic glory or just to be in the in crowd and say we are for real like we could ever be for real then we must spend around $100.00 with shipping and handleing which really means only .0001% of us really needs this since that is all that will ever really make that jump. So why all the fuss and what is the real reason behind getting with great men of the Style of TKD, is it to be able to say look I'm with GM so and so, so you know I'm a legitiment school if not for his organization I would be a nobody. At the same time GM so and so is making a fortune on my club growing and lining his pocket with all the money I can mustard up to him.

We have all seen Test that was stage for the sole purpose to get ,more money for GM so and so, did that instructor earn that belt or bought that belt well the answer is simple both, he earned it by getting enough students to make GM so and so happy and thus earning another stripe on that belt and at the same time he bought the belt by giving GM so and so the students that he could buy that new car he is driving.

In my area of DFW Texas there are officially 127 GM and unofficial 342 GM now that is alot of GM, but yet the KKW say there are only 12 and the ITF says they have only 7 so where did everybody come from, self rightgous people with there own organization and promoting everybody for the all mighty dollar.

The KKW have timeframe and age requirement for GM but yet they are promoting peole way before the minium age limits they have set why? Well again we know why the all mighty dollar.

I'am to the point of damm is martial art big business, can you stay on the path of dignity and honor if we keep selling out, is it worth having two houndred students at $125.00 per month and having a BB club and a Top team club and patches up and down the uniform. Do you have to have a $500,000.00 dollar business a year to be a Real Martial Artist or can a small devoted person stand up and be heard and make a difference in the Art of TKD or is it to late?

I really would like to know without pointing a finger in any direction or mentioning names how can we make a difference and bring back a voice that has been long gone since the nineties.:asian:

A friend to all and an enemy to many:asian:
Terry

Please lets leave names out of the decussion we are not here to bash. We are here to talk.:asian:

 

[Xue Sheng]

Not training TKD any longer so what I have to say here is likely not relevant but if you are a CMA teacher in Beijing it is my understanding you really don’t want to be called a Grand Master.

It is a title given to those that claim knowledge of everything and really know little or nothing.

 

[Kacey]

There are people who have truly devoted their lives to TKD, and who truly deserve the title master or grandmaster... and then there are those who haven't, who cheapen the title for those who have truly earned it.

I already have the only title that is truly meaningful to me: sahbum. If others choose to bestow other titles upon me, that is their choice; how I react depends on the title, and the person who bestows it.

 

[IcemanSK]

There are people who have truly devoted their lives to TKD, and who truly deserve the title master or grandmaster... and then there are those who haven't, who cheapen the title for those who have truly earned it.

I already have the only title that is truly meaningful to me: sahbum. If others choose to bestow other titles upon me, that is their choice; how I react depends on the title, and the person who bestows it.

Kacey is dead-on with this. Its not the title, its the holder that makes the master or GM. How many medocal doctors, laywers, & clergy do we know that don't "live up" to the title?

 

[Carol]

What is all the fuss over a title?:erg:

Many reasons. Ego and self-importance on one side of the spectrum, honor and special recognition on another side of the spectrum.

Can a title realy be earned?

Sure it can, and that earning will carry a certain amount of meaning depending on how it is earned.

Can a title really be bought?

Sure it can and that buying will carry a ceratin amount of meaning depending on how it is earned.

Can a title really give you all the students in the world?:shrug:

Maybe, but what kind of students will it attract? And what will help a teacher KEEP those students?

I'am asking these question for a simple reason, why do any of us need these title and what is the sole purpose of them? I mean we have more GM in the Art or sport of TKD than any other Martial Art programs, which means we have more Masters as well, to date there are over 670 TKD organization which has more than 3500 GM across the globe more each day.

That's also a testament to how popular and widespread TKD programs are as opposed to an art like Silat which is not that well known even among MAists.

Making a difference depends on how you define making a difference. Will the whole McDojo/Belt-selling schema that affects most martial arts come crumbling down? Maybe not.

Can one teacher make a big difference in the lives of their students? Absolutely!

 

[mystic warrior]

This is just my 2 cents

What is all the fuss over a title?:erg:

It is all about the so called teachers ego in most cases.
There are very few arts that titles really mean anything anymore.

Can a title realy be earned?

That is really the only time it may count.
However if you call yourself supreme god of all bung holes grandmaster what ever. Your students should run not walk from you.

Can a title really be bought?

Yes it is done every day even more so with the internet.
And I hate to say this because there is some cool things in TKD. However you see it more in TKD.
NOT to say that it dosn't happen in any other art.
But alot of it has to do with people who could not hack it in there own arts.
Or need that ego boost.

Can a title really give you all the students in the world?:shrug:
It should not but in alot of cases it can.
Because people do not want to do the home work on these guys.
It is called lazy. Think about like this most people think that just because you are a 5th dan or higher you are the s...! And a guy or girl that is a 3rd dan is worthless.
Which might not be the case but they do not care.
They get to train with a so called master.
Back in the old school days the title of master would mean some thing. Now it is about as useless as a deaf and blind kid going to the movies.
Just thought though.

 

[TKDmel]

I found an article at TKD Tutor that seems to sum up alot of the problem with so many masters and GMs.

Once (black belt) prestige has been lost, it is difficult, if not impossible, to regain. Some of us in the martial arts community believe that the giving away of black belts has irreparably damaged the prestige of the black belt. The black belt is now considered just a reward for attendance and perseverance. It has little prestige".

"The black belt is a goal that must attained, not a reward for trying to attain it". "Some of us believe that the “martial” part of the martial arts has been forgotten, or it has just been eliminated to make the martial arts more palatable and profitable. A martial art involves all aspects of hand-to-hand combat, including being able to physically fight, mentally compete against others, deal with the emotions that arise during life or death confrontations, doing anything that is necessary in a confrontation, dealing with the aftermath; and being able to do all these things while living a seemingly normal life. This is the life of a black belt. Black belts do not go to class to socialize and “work out;” they go to hone their fighting skills".

I think this really says it all.

 

[GlassJaw]

to date there are over 670 TKD organization which has more than 3500 GM across the globe

. . .

In my area of DFW Texas there are officially 127 GM and unofficial 342 GM now that is alot of GM, but yet the KKW say there are only 12 and the ITF says they have only 7

Sorry if this diverges from the topic, and maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote (my current TKD involvement is yet in its infancy) but you have me wondering. . .
How the heck did you manage to get those hard numbers?

Compiling an exhaustive list of all GMs and dojangs in an area isn't as simple as checking a phonebook or poking around on the Web. Many masters out there sometimes don't even keep very good track of masters at other schools within their own organization, much less take time to participate in an industry-wide census or share information with persons outside their organization.

How can you assemble counts that include GMs who aren't registered with the big umbrellas?

GlassJaw

 

[terryl965]

. . .
Sorry if this diverges from the topic, and maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote (my current TKD involvement is yet in its infancy) but you have me wondering. . .
How the heck did you manage to get those hard numbers?

Compiling an exhaustive list of all GMs and dojangs in an area isn't as simple as checking a phonebook or poking around on the Web. Many masters out there sometimes don't even keep very good track of masters at other schools within their own organization, much less take time to participate in an industry-wide census or share information with persons outside their organization.

How can you assemble counts that include GMs who aren't registered with the big umbrellas?

GlassJaw

It is a task but you have access to the internet and to the phone book to croos reference also the ITF and KKW keeps pretty good numbers withen there organization and the fact I'm a school owner and see for the most part all these people at qualifiers and also at our State tourney and plus I recieve ever person info. with there name and school when they are promoting events it is pretty easy. My data base has over three thousand GM over the last 10 years plus all of there Master that are under them.

Not easy but well worht the efforts when trying to figure who is who.

 

[exile]

Some of this involves a kind of mutual parasitism: the self-styled GM gets $$ from the reputation that goes with the title, and students who supply the $$ gain (or believe they gain) legitimacy from the fact that their chief instructor/head of school is a GM. Sort of like the designers who get you to supply free advertising for them by persuading you that you want everyone to know that you're carrying/wearing `Coach' or `Prada', and then helpfully supply very prominent logos and brand symbols on the articles in question, just so you get to convey to total strangers how expensive those items are. Having a subum nim who's a GM probably makes certain people feel as though they have similar bragging rights....