Does your school offer a falling type of clinic so you will know how to fall and also do they incorporate how to attack while getting back up from the fall or how to cover up, what type of drills do you work on for this?
Falling and countering
- Thread starter terryl965
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That's all part of the regular training, really. First thing is when you fall, get RIGHT BACK UP! We try to 'bounce' back up. Some of us (ahem *me*) have a little trouble "bouncing" back up quickly, so if we want to keep it stand-up we work on ground mobility, moving away on the ground. We have, at black belt, prone defensive techniques, we have blocks and attacks using the feet on the ground, and then there's grappling.
We start falling at white belt with progressive falling technique. We start with shoulder rolls and backfalls, move up to side falls, flip falls and dive rolls, obstacle falling, etcetera.
This is a great question Terry.
I think falling is overlooked in our organization, even in my club known, which is known in the organization doing more groundfighting training. We have had takedown and submission classes, but the falling has been lacking. I didn't really notice that it was missing until I started hapkido and proper falling was the first thing we learned.
I've hinted at the importance of breakfalls and such informally after a TKD class before. I may do so again.
Once we know how to fall, then incorporating the necessary defense and/or response/attack into such a fall or recovery would be a good next step.
I think falling is overlooked in our organization, even in my club known, which is known in the organization doing more groundfighting training. We have had takedown and submission classes, but the falling has been lacking. I didn't really notice that it was missing until I started hapkido and proper falling was the first thing we learned.
I've hinted at the importance of breakfalls and such informally after a TKD class before. I may do so again.
Once we know how to fall, then incorporating the necessary defense and/or response/attack into such a fall or recovery would be a good next step.
jim777
Master Black Belt
In my dojang a lot of Hapkido falling, rolling, and breakfall techniques are integrated into the curriculum.
Shuto
Purple Belt
We learned how to fall before we learned our first takedown. Basic stuff like spreading out the impact and keeping our head off of the ground. We are continuing with our falling education by learning rolls. We start out rolling from a kneeling position and work our way up from there.
We incorporate falling and rolling techniques from day one. Wwe call 'em aikido rolls...as a former aikidoka, they're pretty close. We do not however teach much defese from the ground (a la BJJ). We basically teach how to roll back up into a fighting position...bnot how to fight up from a prone position.
I think falling skills are perhaps one of the most important skills for the average person to take from MA training. I find I'm much more likely to slip and fall than I am to get into a fight. I always tell the littel ones when I'm teaching that I've used my falling skills 100 times more than I've used my punching and kicking skills.
Here's my best example...I own a Siberian Husky. They're a big breed of dog with a LOT of energy...cabn't walk 'em enough. So, I got this device that hooks to my bike and allows the dog to pull me around at a run if he wants. It has a spring to absorb some of the pull. However the dog is to the side of the bike. He can get me up over 20 mph at a flat run (I tested this when the police put one of those traffic things that tells you how fast you;re going in my neughborhood). Anyway, we were tearing through the neighborhood and my dog decided to turn left when i was turning right...this resulted in a crash...I go flying head first over the handlebars. As a result of years of training, I rolled out of the fall, got to my feet and fell forward from the momentum and did a proper forward fall (spreading the force out). As a result, I had some scrapes on my forearms...that's it.
IMHO, falling skills really are the most useful day to day MA skill there is.
Peace,
Erik
I think falling skills are perhaps one of the most important skills for the average person to take from MA training. I find I'm much more likely to slip and fall than I am to get into a fight. I always tell the littel ones when I'm teaching that I've used my falling skills 100 times more than I've used my punching and kicking skills.
Here's my best example...I own a Siberian Husky. They're a big breed of dog with a LOT of energy...cabn't walk 'em enough. So, I got this device that hooks to my bike and allows the dog to pull me around at a run if he wants. It has a spring to absorb some of the pull. However the dog is to the side of the bike. He can get me up over 20 mph at a flat run (I tested this when the police put one of those traffic things that tells you how fast you;re going in my neughborhood). Anyway, we were tearing through the neighborhood and my dog decided to turn left when i was turning right...this resulted in a crash...I go flying head first over the handlebars. As a result of years of training, I rolled out of the fall, got to my feet and fell forward from the momentum and did a proper forward fall (spreading the force out). As a result, I had some scrapes on my forearms...that's it.
IMHO, falling skills really are the most useful day to day MA skill there is.
Peace,
Erik
We teach falling and rolling beginning at white belt; falling to the side, front, and back and shoulder rolls are testing requirements for high white belt. I stepped on a rock going to the trash dumpster some years ago, rolled on pavement, and came out of it with a sprained ankle (the cause of the fall) and a scrape on one elbow where I rolled over a rock - and that was it. Several of my students have similar stories, often involving other sports where they've falled on a hard floor (usually in a gym) and gotten back up without significant injury.
Laurentkd
Master Black Belt
Sounds like the same progression we do. I also think falling is a very important component for training. Especially when learning any throws or take downs, it's important to be able to fall correctly so the person doing the throwing can do so without worrying about hurting his partner. Plus, it is just all around good to know. What is more likely going to happen.. I get attacked, or I fall? Makes sense to me to learn how to fall correctly!
Miles
Senior Master
We do breakfalls or nakbup from day one. In our soon-to-be former school, we use ukemi balls-kids love them, the adults are somewhat hindered by them. They are great for front rolls. When people are comfortable, we take away the balls and let them to front rolls ending with a recovery in an on-guard position.
For forward falls, we start out from kneeling position and work our way up progressively til we are standing up.
For rear falls, we start in a squatting position and work up to staning position.
Breakfalling is a great conditioning workout-it is easy to go down but increasingly more difficult to get up.
Miles
For forward falls, we start out from kneeling position and work our way up progressively til we are standing up.
For rear falls, we start in a squatting position and work up to staning position.
Breakfalling is a great conditioning workout-it is easy to go down but increasingly more difficult to get up.
Miles
This is a very good question/issue, Terry. We do almost no falling training at all. I've never missed it, because from years of downhill skiing/racing I learned stuff about falling that I find still applicable in MA situations, so haven't ever missed formal MA training in it, although I can't really articulate it and would have a hard time formulating it in an MA curriculum to teach to someone else. But it's really important, you're right (along with a lot of the other posters).
I agree, falling correctly really is the most useful day to day MA skill. We also learn how to fall from day one, and I've used it more than once to keep me from getting hurt. My most interesting fall was a couple of years ago, I stepped out of my garage onto black ice, the next thing I knew my feet were over my head. I did a back fall onto the driveway and ended up cursing and laughing as I slid down to my car. If I didn't know how to fall, I would probably have fractured my skull, among other things. It is definetly the part of the art I've used most.
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Yes, even when I was in the ATA (early 1980's) we learned and practiced falling. In Kenpo and a more traditional TKD school we learned how to do sidekicks from the ground and the TKD school taught bridging and some basic ground skills (not the guard, though). I did have one instructor whose defense for the ground consisted of an admonition "stay on your feet", because, according to him and in his world, lol, Karateka never got taken down unless they were incompetent.
zDom
Senior Master
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You got that right! You really don't think about how exhausting it is to stand up from a prone position until you have to do it 20 or 30 times (or more) in a short period of time.
rmclain
Black Belt
Falling is a standard practice for all of the students from beginner level due to our Hapkido and Yudo lineage.
R. McLain
R. McLain
Shaderon
Master of Arts
Falling is something we don't do at all at Colour belt level, I might ask why not, after all it's an important part of self defence... defending yourself against the floor. I wonder if it's a higher up thing, I mean only supposing to teach the curriculum and not diversing? I'll have to ask, good question.
I wanted to express again how important I think it is for correct falling to be included in curriculums.
We took on a 2nd degree Kukkiwon who wanted to start at white with us and was amazed that he had to learn to fall at white belt. He expressed that he had never been taught any kind of tumbling or falling whatsoever in TKD.
This really concerns me. I have GS friends who have taken up TKD who are starting to be taken down and are starting to spar but are not being shown how to fall properly.
There is no doubt that correct falling has kept me from serious injury at least three times that I can be sure of just in daily life. Why would anyone teach their students about take-downs and allow them to be taken down without proper nak bup instruction???
Is this not a standard part of the Kukkiwon curriculum?
Please know I'm not trying to flame, just seeking some clarity. Thanks.
We took on a 2nd degree Kukkiwon who wanted to start at white with us and was amazed that he had to learn to fall at white belt. He expressed that he had never been taught any kind of tumbling or falling whatsoever in TKD.
This really concerns me. I have GS friends who have taken up TKD who are starting to be taken down and are starting to spar but are not being shown how to fall properly.
There is no doubt that correct falling has kept me from serious injury at least three times that I can be sure of just in daily life. Why would anyone teach their students about take-downs and allow them to be taken down without proper nak bup instruction???
Is this not a standard part of the Kukkiwon curriculum?
Please know I'm not trying to flame, just seeking some clarity. Thanks.
HAHAHA That is how I get my workout during training, constantly having to get up off the floor! :rofl:
Learning how to fall or "receive the ground" is extremely important. It is something (as said by others) that you will use more times than punching or kicking. My rolling has kept me from getting injured a few times outside the dojo and of course countless times in the dojo.
We teach that stuff from day one. But due to the way our art trains, we get constant practice at falling and rolling as part of our paired training and we don't generally spend class time doing rolls and falls once everyone has been shown and has done them a few times.
rmclain
Black Belt
From my experience, Kukkiwon Taekwondo students do not learn how to fall or takedowns.
I saw one Kukkiwon student in 1981 get swept during a tournament that allowed sweeps. It was on a wooden basketball floor. He fell, hit his head and was knocked unconscious. He suffered some sort of brain damage from the fall and is "not quite right" even now. He would have been fine if had been trained how to fall properly. I'm really sorry to see that.
R. McLain
I saw one Kukkiwon student in 1981 get swept during a tournament that allowed sweeps. It was on a wooden basketball floor. He fell, hit his head and was knocked unconscious. He suffered some sort of brain damage from the fall and is "not quite right" even now. He would have been fine if had been trained how to fall properly. I'm really sorry to see that.
R. McLain
Rolls, breakfalls, evasive maneuvers, how to stand up, etc. are all taught from day one in IRT. We also spent considerable time in learning how to defend if you are taken down and have to perform a breakfall, etc. What you can do once down and where are their weakness and how to try and take advantage of them. Also how to close off your weakness as well. We also teach how to not let someone take a fall when throwing them, so that in other words they really fall hard and cannot perform a proper breakfall, roll or other evasive maneuver.
That constant standing up is one reason why good Budo Taijutsu pracitioners have leg's like steel.
