Randy Strausbaugh
Master Black Belt
If I am not mistaken, the proper transliteration is "ninjutsu", not "ninjitsu". If I am in error, apologies all around.:asian:
Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh
Things that p*ss me off...
- Thread starter Matt Stone
- Start date
Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh
OP
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
- Thread Starter
- #42
Kawika-san -
Taken from the website -
Where is the name "Kawika" from? Is it a birth name, or a name you either assumed or was "given" to you? Just curious... Also, when did you attend seminary school?
Can you provide dates? Years would be fine, actually... You see, most civilians couldn't tell the difference between enlisted and officers, and folks that cite their military experience as some form of qualification for their martial arts skills really perturb me. Especially since HTH is really not something regular troops worry about, and even though SOF folks train in it quite a bit, they are far from being "martial arts masters."
So if you had 7 years active duty with the SEALS, that puts you somewhere around 7 - 10 years on active duty total (since, at least to my limited knowledge, you don't just walk into BUDS as a newbie fresh from basic training). That'd mean you got out somewhere around 28 years old. When did you find time to get your BA or BS to allow you to transfer to the officer corps, or were you a warrant officer? Or were you just a petty officer, noncommissioned type?
Well, it does sound enticing, but how does any of this really impact your martial arts credibility? Sounds like the back cover of a Mack Bolan book... How long did you work for the CIA? It would seem that would eat up another few years, what with training and all...
Again, a chronology of your training would be nice... Seems like much of what you claim to possess would be time intensive. So somewhere around the age of 30ish or so (if we just give you a few years with the CIA after getting out of the Navy) you take off for China for a few years. Then somewhere after that you spend time working on an additional BA (since you had to have one to qualify for an officer's commission earlier in your career), then two Master's degrees... That's at least 5 or 6 years there, depending on how much of your prior BA/BS credits transferred over to the new school's curriculum.
So when did you find the time to train in this art? So far, the rough chronology I've outlined really hasn't allowed for much time in training at all... Living the life of a combat soldier, followed by 7 years as a veteran of the special ops community doesn't leave much time for anything at all, much less training to a senior rank in an obscure martial art. Where did you do your training, at least initially?
Many years training under Bow Sim Mark... Quite a respectable claim. But, how many years, and when? Again, more time intensive issues, and you are already approaching mid-30s by our rough chronology outlined here...
Well, this speaks to your notoriety, but not to your martial skills and background. Even TLC and Discovery have aired folks that are widely known to be bold-faced frauds at the very best estimate... The media and the public don't know the difference between karate and kung fu, hence the phrase "I know karate and 7 other Chinese words."
What does any of this have to do with your martial arts? What were the topics of your speeches? Did they reference martial arts, or were you speaking as an Episcopal minister? Your reasons for being a guest speaker have relevance if you are citing such appearances as some form of evidence toward your martial importance...
What are the articles on, where are/were they published, and with whom? I've typed up some articles, quite a few in fact, and have had a few published quietly on the internet. Doesn't mean I'm some sort of expert, though... Just that I managed to convince someone to post my stuff.
I'm not trying to ambush you or attack you. You make claims that seem to be larger than life, and your alleged history sounds more at home in a novel or B-movie than in the reality that we all share. If you were amenable to answering my questions, I am sure it would go a long way toward convincing any naysayers that your background is legitimate.
I'll be nice, and leave alone the issue that someone fluent in Chinese and Japanese should be more concerned about correct transliteration of Asian languages. The art of the Ninja is correctly spelled "ninjutsu" in Romaji... The spelling you make use of would be a completely different thing, not even possessing the correct pronunciation (i.e. "ninjitsu" would be pronounced "neen-jeet-soo," and that would be an incorrect pronunciation of the second kanji in the term).
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
Taken from the website -
Where is the name "Kawika" from? Is it a birth name, or a name you either assumed or was "given" to you? Just curious... Also, when did you attend seminary school?
Can you provide dates? Years would be fine, actually... You see, most civilians couldn't tell the difference between enlisted and officers, and folks that cite their military experience as some form of qualification for their martial arts skills really perturb me. Especially since HTH is really not something regular troops worry about, and even though SOF folks train in it quite a bit, they are far from being "martial arts masters."
So if you had 7 years active duty with the SEALS, that puts you somewhere around 7 - 10 years on active duty total (since, at least to my limited knowledge, you don't just walk into BUDS as a newbie fresh from basic training). That'd mean you got out somewhere around 28 years old. When did you find time to get your BA or BS to allow you to transfer to the officer corps, or were you a warrant officer? Or were you just a petty officer, noncommissioned type?
Well, it does sound enticing, but how does any of this really impact your martial arts credibility? Sounds like the back cover of a Mack Bolan book... How long did you work for the CIA? It would seem that would eat up another few years, what with training and all...
Again, a chronology of your training would be nice... Seems like much of what you claim to possess would be time intensive. So somewhere around the age of 30ish or so (if we just give you a few years with the CIA after getting out of the Navy) you take off for China for a few years. Then somewhere after that you spend time working on an additional BA (since you had to have one to qualify for an officer's commission earlier in your career), then two Master's degrees... That's at least 5 or 6 years there, depending on how much of your prior BA/BS credits transferred over to the new school's curriculum.
So when did you find the time to train in this art? So far, the rough chronology I've outlined really hasn't allowed for much time in training at all... Living the life of a combat soldier, followed by 7 years as a veteran of the special ops community doesn't leave much time for anything at all, much less training to a senior rank in an obscure martial art. Where did you do your training, at least initially?
Many years training under Bow Sim Mark... Quite a respectable claim. But, how many years, and when? Again, more time intensive issues, and you are already approaching mid-30s by our rough chronology outlined here...
Well, this speaks to your notoriety, but not to your martial skills and background. Even TLC and Discovery have aired folks that are widely known to be bold-faced frauds at the very best estimate... The media and the public don't know the difference between karate and kung fu, hence the phrase "I know karate and 7 other Chinese words."
What does any of this have to do with your martial arts? What were the topics of your speeches? Did they reference martial arts, or were you speaking as an Episcopal minister? Your reasons for being a guest speaker have relevance if you are citing such appearances as some form of evidence toward your martial importance...
What are the articles on, where are/were they published, and with whom? I've typed up some articles, quite a few in fact, and have had a few published quietly on the internet. Doesn't mean I'm some sort of expert, though... Just that I managed to convince someone to post my stuff.
I'm not trying to ambush you or attack you. You make claims that seem to be larger than life, and your alleged history sounds more at home in a novel or B-movie than in the reality that we all share. If you were amenable to answering my questions, I am sure it would go a long way toward convincing any naysayers that your background is legitimate.
I'll be nice, and leave alone the issue that someone fluent in Chinese and Japanese should be more concerned about correct transliteration of Asian languages. The art of the Ninja is correctly spelled "ninjutsu" in Romaji... The spelling you make use of would be a completely different thing, not even possessing the correct pronunciation (i.e. "ninjitsu" would be pronounced "neen-jeet-soo," and that would be an incorrect pronunciation of the second kanji in the term).
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
Matt, I am curious. What is your point with your last post? Are you asking Sensei Phelps to restate what he's already stated? Do you know his birthdate. (I am assuming you do as you are extrapolating a timeline.)
Lets start here.
"Where is the name "Kawika" from? Is it a birth name, or a name you either assumed or was "given" to you?"
Huh? I thought you read through the web site.
"Can you provide dates? Years would be fine, actually... You see, most civilians couldn't tell the difference between enlisted and officers, and folks that cite their military experience as some form of qualification for their martial arts skills really perturb me. Especially since HTH is really not something regular troops worry about, and even though SOF folks train in it quite a bit, they are far from being "martial arts masters"
What? Why? And where does he state that his SOF creditials equal Ninjitsu mastery?
"That'd mean you got out somewhere around 28 years old. When did you find time to get your BA or BS to allow you to transfer to the officer corps, or were you a warrant officer? Or were you just a petty officer, noncommissioned type?"
Why would it mean that? Also, he lists the Universities he attended on the Web site. Why dont you do the research and post the results here?
"How long did you work for the CIA? It would seem that would eat up another few years, what with training and all..."
Again, do you have evidence that he (Phelps) was NOT in the CIA?
"additional BA (since you had to have one to qualify for an officer's commission earlier in your career), then two Master's degrees... That's at least 5 or 6 years there, depending on how much of your prior BA/BS credits transferred over to the new school's curriculum"
See above. You check it out.
"Many years training under Bow Sim Mark... Quite a respectable claim"
Why dont you call Sifu Mark at her Boston Dojo and ask her?
"I'm not trying to ambush you or attack you. You make claims that seem to be larger than life, and your alleged history sounds more at home in a novel or B-movie than in the reality that we all share. If you were amenable to answering my questions, I am sure it would go a long way toward convincing any naysayers that your background is legitimate."
You sir, are a liar. (no offense) You are DEFINITELY attacking him. It is funny to hear you call someone (oh, I'm sorry, INFER) a liar, and then try to sound as if you are genuine in your intent.
You have jumped on a bandwagon to disparrage someone you would not recognize if they walked in your Dojo. You are trying to infer a lack of credibility because YOU find his Bio incredulous? Huh? So be it. Go out, do the research, and expose all of the frauds here. Of course, if you have any honor, you will naturally have to come here and say so if you find his Military carreer, Govt. carrer, and school creditials to be legit. (let me save you some time, they are) Now, as far as the "legitamacy of the Art itself. Gees, no, its not Bujinkan, or any Takamatsuden tradition. If you want to read scads of threads on it, go over to e-budo and check it out. Even Don Roley might agree that that horse has been whipped to death.
My point is this. YOu say that He "Burns your @$$" Really, when did you speak with him? You say you have first hand, 2nd hand information. Buddy! Dont be a jerk! Check it out for your self. Call him, e-mail him, better yet, talk to the MANY students who(m) have studied under him and found it valuable.
Lets start here.
"Where is the name "Kawika" from? Is it a birth name, or a name you either assumed or was "given" to you?"
Huh? I thought you read through the web site.
"Can you provide dates? Years would be fine, actually... You see, most civilians couldn't tell the difference between enlisted and officers, and folks that cite their military experience as some form of qualification for their martial arts skills really perturb me. Especially since HTH is really not something regular troops worry about, and even though SOF folks train in it quite a bit, they are far from being "martial arts masters"
What? Why? And where does he state that his SOF creditials equal Ninjitsu mastery?
"That'd mean you got out somewhere around 28 years old. When did you find time to get your BA or BS to allow you to transfer to the officer corps, or were you a warrant officer? Or were you just a petty officer, noncommissioned type?"
Why would it mean that? Also, he lists the Universities he attended on the Web site. Why dont you do the research and post the results here?
"How long did you work for the CIA? It would seem that would eat up another few years, what with training and all..."
Again, do you have evidence that he (Phelps) was NOT in the CIA?
"additional BA (since you had to have one to qualify for an officer's commission earlier in your career), then two Master's degrees... That's at least 5 or 6 years there, depending on how much of your prior BA/BS credits transferred over to the new school's curriculum"
See above. You check it out.
"Many years training under Bow Sim Mark... Quite a respectable claim"
Why dont you call Sifu Mark at her Boston Dojo and ask her?
"I'm not trying to ambush you or attack you. You make claims that seem to be larger than life, and your alleged history sounds more at home in a novel or B-movie than in the reality that we all share. If you were amenable to answering my questions, I am sure it would go a long way toward convincing any naysayers that your background is legitimate."
You sir, are a liar. (no offense) You are DEFINITELY attacking him. It is funny to hear you call someone (oh, I'm sorry, INFER) a liar, and then try to sound as if you are genuine in your intent.
You have jumped on a bandwagon to disparrage someone you would not recognize if they walked in your Dojo. You are trying to infer a lack of credibility because YOU find his Bio incredulous? Huh? So be it. Go out, do the research, and expose all of the frauds here. Of course, if you have any honor, you will naturally have to come here and say so if you find his Military carreer, Govt. carrer, and school creditials to be legit. (let me save you some time, they are) Now, as far as the "legitamacy of the Art itself. Gees, no, its not Bujinkan, or any Takamatsuden tradition. If you want to read scads of threads on it, go over to e-budo and check it out. Even Don Roley might agree that that horse has been whipped to death.
My point is this. YOu say that He "Burns your @$$" Really, when did you speak with him? You say you have first hand, 2nd hand information. Buddy! Dont be a jerk! Check it out for your self. Call him, e-mail him, better yet, talk to the MANY students who(m) have studied under him and found it valuable.
R
RyuShiKan
Guest
Here we go again
.
This reminds of several other threads where person A is questioned about their claims on a website and then person A wants the questioner (person B) to supply the proof for the claims made by person A.
How flaud is that logic.
Example:
I publicly claim to have a $1,000,000 in my bank account.
You ask me if I really have a $1,000,000 in my bank account.
I tell you to prove that I dont.
This reminds of several other threads where person A is questioned about their claims on a website and then person A wants the questioner (person B) to supply the proof for the claims made by person A.
How flaud is that logic.
Example:
I publicly claim to have a $1,000,000 in my bank account.
You ask me if I really have a $1,000,000 in my bank account.
I tell you to prove that I dont.
I think you meant Flawed ? ANyway, no. Thats not what I am asking. Phelps has given the Universities he attended names. He has given the government job titles he has held. I.E. SEAL, CIA and his areas of operation. Supported it with a published book that includes pictures of him: in Vietnam, in Syria, in Afghanistan, graduating from BUDS, getting Diplomas from University. I dont think I am being unreasonable. He has reasonably supported his position. If someone wants to disprove his position, it is upon them to do so. Since you like the logical approach. You are innocent until PROVEN guilty in this country. I can think of many people I know who(m) have claimed, among other things, SEAL afffiliation, SOF affiliation, and yes, CIA affiliation. Of those people they have all shown to be exactly what they said without having to show me their Trident, Tab, or Cloak. I am not asking that anyone PROVE Phelps' claims. I am asking that you DIS- prove them if you are of the opinion that they (the claims) are false.
R
RyuShiKan
Guest
Play on words there..........flawed/fraud.....get it?
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RyuShiKan
Guest
And we are just supposed to take him at his word??? I think not.
Ive been to some of those countries, had my photo taken there and I was never a double knot spy .so whats the point? He owns a camera is about all that proves.
What does all that have to do with his martial training?
0
Or how about this ..your claims are just claims until proven to be fact.
I can play word games with you all day but that still wont prove some of his claims are true.
He claimed/claims to be a SEAL http://www.authentiseal.org/mjd2.htm
As do many others on the Internet.
I did check and his claim to being a SEAL came back positive, that doesnt mean all the rest of what he claims is true.
It is far easier to prove something exists than prove it does not.
The burden of proof is on the person making the claim .not the person asking questions.
R
RyuShiKan
Guest
Don,
With all your Budo/Ninjutsu connections can you find any info on this style of "NinjItsu"?
I have looked all over my books on Japanese Martial History and haven't found squat. You would think with a 1,000 year lineage there would be something.
"A 10th degree black belt in the Japanese family art of Shorinjin Ryu Saito Ninjitsu, Kawika Sensei is the only non-Saito in the 1,000-year history of this art to be granted the rank of Saito Ninjitsu Master. He is one of only three to be granted this title by the present Grandmaster of the art, Mark Saito, Sr. - the other two are the Grandmaster's sons."
With all your Budo/Ninjutsu connections can you find any info on this style of "NinjItsu"?
I have looked all over my books on Japanese Martial History and haven't found squat. You would think with a 1,000 year lineage there would be something.
"A 10th degree black belt in the Japanese family art of Shorinjin Ryu Saito Ninjitsu, Kawika Sensei is the only non-Saito in the 1,000-year history of this art to be granted the rank of Saito Ninjitsu Master. He is one of only three to be granted this title by the present Grandmaster of the art, Mark Saito, Sr. - the other two are the Grandmaster's sons."
R
RyuShiKan
Guest
The second level is the severe bone-crushing art of Tsuiyoi Karatedo. This art requires extreme training discipline and was originally taught only to tournament teams.
Are you kidding
There are few who complete this training, and it is not required in order to achieve ranking in Ninjitsu Mastery. The third level includes Pasai Sho and Pasai Dai (very different from the Okinawan schools' kata forms with these names).
Odd how they kept the Okinawan names but not the form.
After reading this, my guess is this Saito NinjItsu was one of those Ka-radee schools that became a Ninja school during the big Ninja craze way back when.
Are you kidding
There are few who complete this training, and it is not required in order to achieve ranking in Ninjitsu Mastery. The third level includes Pasai Sho and Pasai Dai (very different from the Okinawan schools' kata forms with these names).
Odd how they kept the Okinawan names but not the form.
After reading this, my guess is this Saito NinjItsu was one of those Ka-radee schools that became a Ninja school during the big Ninja craze way back when.
OP
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
- Thread Starter
- #50
No, I don't know a birthdate... However, since you are only eligible for miilitary service at around 17 to 18 years of age, and given the extraordinarily time consuming claims he has made, I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he started early... He said he was Special Forces in the Army in Vietnam, and then transferred to the Navy, on to BUDs, then on to officer training (of some sort - don't know what kind yet), then back to the SEALs. That racks up at least 10 to 12 years absolute bare minimum... My original comment of 7 - 10 was based just on the Navy time (I didn't think through the Army time too well when I posted).
And I'm not asking him to relate what he has already posted _ I'm asking for details to a timeline he hasn't touched on at all.
I haven't read through the entire thing. I had other things to do. But if that is where the answer lies, I will surely rush right over there to discover that name's hidden truths...
Why provide dates? Well, see, when someone tries to pass off their secret special ops background as some sort of qualifier for their martial skills, I start asking questions - like why is their martial history in need of such supporting storyline? Why doesn't their martial history have the ability to stand on its own? Stories about special forces folks being martial arts masters starts making me wonder if the Dark Warrior was really Chiun of Sinanju fame... Dates serve to show how long he was in and at what ranks. Lots of folks like to drop "chief instructor of XXXX base" as their claim to fame, when in fact they just happened to be the person that was available to sign a NAF contract with that installation to teach MA to the kids at the youth center... So the rank he was and for how long has bearing on his claims to military experience relevant to his martial arts background.
As for "where does he state that his SOF credentials equal Ninjitsu master," well, he is the one listing his background, and anyone that is reading it is surely intended to infer that his background has developed him somehow, especially since he extrapolates his training and military background in a related storyline, i.e. "he has made use of his skills in real world situations," or words to that effect.
SOF or any other military credentials mean precisely Richard as far as martial arts skills go... We don't train to fight that way, even when we do train in HTH. We have firearms, heavy artillery, armored vehicles and tanks to do the fighting. There just isn't all that much room in doctrine to allow for ranks of martial arts warriors waltzing across the battlefield to participate in mortal combat with the enemy... Much easier to call in arty and let HE do the work.
First, as I stated above, I am giving him the earliest possible time to have joined the military. Being that I have been active duty for the last 11 years, I can attest to the inherent difficulty in obtaining a BA/BS while on active duty. For a combat soldier from Vietnam, and then a Navy SEAL to have gotten a BA/BS in under a decade would infer that either he didn't participate in a lot of training, or that he went to the school but didn't do the job... Since his SEAL claim checked out, it would lead me to believe that he didn't do too much work as a SEAL, since regular military training, deployments, sea duty, would all restrict his ability to go to school regularly (not to mention the fact that he would likely only have lunch and after duty hours to attend classes).
Second, since I'm not the one making the claims, it really isn't my job to have to find out the documentation to support the claims...
See, I work in the Army JAG Corps. When the prosecutor alleges something, the defense counsel only has to show reasonable doubt to cause the allegations to become suspect... I see my position as the defense counsel, not the prosecutor. Mr. Phelps is presenting an allegation that he did such and so. I have no personal heartburn, but I certainly would like to see some more detailed documentation to prove he claims. I can argue that I am able to provide reasonable doubt by displaying that a timeline of very generous parameters discounts the ability to have invested much in the way of time and effort toward obtaining the lofty grades and positions he claims. As the allegations are his, he bears the burden of proof... All I have to do is poke holes in the story.
Again, not my problem to prove he was or wasn't. I just have to prove reasonable doubt. And why would a former CIA operative either a) publicly announce his involvement in such activities, or b) think that such activities had anything to do with his martial arts background? It sounds like just more hype and fluff to make the alleged ninja master sound more mysterious and spooky to the uninitiated, ignorant civilian with no knowledge nor experience with the backgrounds Mr. Phelps claims.
See above. Not my place to prove or disprove, just to bring in a little doubt...
I feel like we are playing Ring Around the Rosy with this line of argument... Perhaps I will do just that, however...
Think what you like, Mr. My Profile Says Nothing At All. You joined MT on the day after I posted my questions to Mr. Phelps. That leads me to believe you could possibly be in his camp. Fine. It could also be believed that you are either one of his students, or Mr. Phelps himself. The Mods can prove or disprove that. Wouldn't be the first time such a thing has happened. Whatever.
If I were really attacking him, I would have come right out and said he was a fraud. Note the encouragement I give in the whole "it'll go a long way toward convincing any naysayers that your backgorund is legitimate" comment. I don't need to call him a fraud. His actions or inactions will define that for me. He will either provide proof, or he won't. Both situations are inevitable, and in the case of one my suppositions will be proven incorrect, and in the other they will be proven correct.
Call me some more names... And be creative next time, huh?
I would recognize him - saw the pics on his site. I am sure I'm not the only person with a little commons sense that thinks his background sounds more at home in a Remo Williams novel than in real life. Especially given the time I have spent working for the Government (it really isn't as glamorous as the movies make it out to be). If I found out he was legitimate, believe me I would be the first one to state so publicly - but since you haven't known me beyond the past few days, you would have no record of who I am, what I am about, or how I behave in public forum - ask around, folks will support the fact that I am the first one to admit when I am wrong, and do so loud, up front, and in public... G'head, ask... I dare ya.
As for the legitimacy of "ninja" schools, I will say for the record that I think the so-called "ninja" schools are a bunch of hooey. I don't believe, for a single minute, that they are "authentic" traditions. Every "ninja master" has had an extensive MA background known publicly before they became known as "ninja." Sure, go ahead, use the convenient excuse that "that's how ninjas operate - you never know their secrets" or some other Hollywood crap. I don't believe the Bujinkan or any of the splinter groups therefrom are legitimate ryuha. But if folks want to run about thinking they are ninja, that's just fine. My 7 year old son does it, so why can't they?
Why email him? Can't we talk publicly right here? Why call him? This is a suitable enough forum, and it allows him to think out his responses and reply intelligently instead of being put on the spot. I wouldn't ask students, since 90% of them have no idea what they are getting into when they join a school, and often have no knowledge of the "outside world" while training in that school... Students are regularly and daily defrauded and bilked of time, effort, sweat and cash. It'd be like asking devout Moonies if they though Rev. Moon was legit - like they'd know.
I look forward to your responses, Mr. Phelps' responses, both, or neither... All are inevitable anyway...
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
OP
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
- Thread Starter
- #51
Severe bone-crushing tournament training? Why does that sound incompatible?
In what fashion are they very different? And why the identical naming, as RyuShiKan points out, in Okinawan and not Japanese? With a person fluent in Japanese at the head, I'd wonder why a Japanese ninja school would use Okinawan terminology... Were there Okinawan ninja that no one has heard of until now? Curious...
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
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RyuShiKan
Guest
Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Were there Okinawan ninja that no one has heard of until now? Curious...
Nope.
R
RyuShiKan
Guest
Sounds like a Frank Dux thing
OP
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
- Thread Starter
- #54
Well, with all these new ninja traditions (first Togakure, then Bujinkan and the Takamatsuden, then the Genbukan, then the additional "X-kans," then the Iga, Koga, etc., ryu, and now the Saito-ryu to boot) springing up, it makes me fearful to return to Japan... Hell, there must have been ninja all around me the entire time I was there!!! :wah:
But I should probably shut up, since all the ninjas out there may send a contract out on me for making such disrespectful comments and calling their not-so-secret art into question... :uhohh:
Whatever.
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
But I should probably shut up, since all the ninjas out there may send a contract out on me for making such disrespectful comments and calling their not-so-secret art into question... :uhohh:
Whatever.
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
T
Tatsukin
Guest
Enjoyable stuff. You gentlemen are really passionate. I love it. I will have to check back again and see how the discussion is going.
Aloha,
Christopher Whitehead
Nidan
Shorinjin Ryu Saito Ninjitsu Academy
Chief Instructor
Nenriki Chiryoku Dojo
Aloha,
Christopher Whitehead
Nidan
Shorinjin Ryu Saito Ninjitsu Academy
Chief Instructor
Nenriki Chiryoku Dojo
R
RyuShiKan
Guest
You mean you didn't notice all the "Ninja" while you were here?
What about the Samurai and Geisha?
Don't tell me you missed them too......
(To real Ninjutsu people: Not rippin' on ya'll......I have 2 friends that study NinjUtsu, one of which I have known for almost 20 years)
R
RyuShiKan
Guest
OP
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
- Thread Starter
- #58
Originally posted by Yiliquan1
As for the legitimacy of "ninja" schools, I will say for the record that I think the so-called "ninja" schools are a bunch of hooey. I don't believe, for a single minute, that they are "authentic" traditions. Every "ninja master" has had an extensive MA background known publicly before they became known as "ninja." Sure, go ahead, use the convenient excuse that "that's how ninjas operate - you never know their secrets" or some other Hollywood crap. I don't believe the Bujinkan or any of the splinter groups therefrom are legitimate ryuha. But if folks want to run about thinking they are ninja, that's just fine. My 7 year old son does it, so why can't they?
Just to caveat and qualify my earlier comments...
While I don't believe that the alleged ninjutsu traditions that are in existence today are necessarily the legitimate heirs to the ninja traditions of several hundred years ago, I do not believe they should be disallowed to practice what they believe to be legitimate arts... I have found it amusing in recent years to see the amount of non-ninjutsu arts that are taught by these "ninja" schools. If they want to call themselves ninja, fine. For the most part they seem to leave everyone alone and keep to themselves. The more honorable ones among them don't make claims to ridiculous titles, ranks or backgrounds. The ones among them that do lay claim to mystical claims or magical backgrounds appear to be policed up rather quickly by their own ranks...
I have no gripes with folks that want to connect themselves to the long dead traditions of old Japan. When I was a Mason, there were folks that wanted more than anything to identify with the Knights Templar. Fine. Whatever floats your boat.
My gripes are, as ever, with the folks that just can't leave things as they are in the real world, and who feel a need to embellish their real training, often only to draw in more paying students...
It is my fervent hope that Mr. Phelps and the rest of his ninja clan are legitimate. It would be a nice breath of fresh air. However, if Gozanryu speaks as one of the Saito-ryu tradition, I fear the worst...
I am further amused at Mr. Whitehead's lack of support or denial toward Mr. Phelps. Sometimes what is not said is as important as what is said...
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
Nope, not a thing. There is nothing in any Japanese source that can back up their claims. All my requests for some sort of proof have only been met with excuses. As far as I can tell, the whole art stated with a guy named Mark Saito sr in America. No evidence that he actually learned martial arts of any type from his family has been presented. Talked about as if it existed, yes. But no proof that the art existed before the event of disco music has been presented so that other people can see it for themselves.
And several things like their use of bad Japanese, the Shaolin priests they connect to their art, etc, set off alarm bells in my mind. More than one respected martial arts scholar has said they believed the art was created in Hawaii, and Wayne Muromoto even offered to look over their Japanese sources if they would let him. His offer was met with silence.
What I want to know is why Phelps suddenly can't answer questions about him for himself. It would be much more reliable than other people. I am sure that if what they say turns out to be false, then the explination will be given that it was a student mistake.:shrug:
R
RyuShiKan
Guest
Interesting ..
What is it the Japanese say??? less is more.
