There Is More To It Than Fighting

[MJS]

The title of this thread is to discuss the views of why we train, and what we want to get out of the martial arts. Looking at some of the posts on some of the recent threads here, I see 2 views. One thinks twice about fighting and seems to view that as an extreme last resort, while the other puts it on a higher level. In other words, if those people are faced with a confrontation, they deal with it and if it means fighting, then so be it.

So, what are your views of this? Do you feel that too much emphasis is placed on the martial side instead of the art side?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The title of this thread is to discuss the views of why we train, and what we want to get out of the martial arts. Looking at some of the posts on some of the recent threads here, I see 2 views. One thinks twice about fighting and seems to view that as an extreme last resort, while the other puts it on a higher level. In other words, if those people are faced with a confrontation, they deal with it and if it means fighting, then so be it.

So, what are your views of this? Do you feel that too much emphasis is placed on the martial side instead of the art side?

I wanted to find a traditional-style dojo because I like the idea of karate as karate-do, a 'way'.

I am happy because I am learning or relearning many things. Patience. Trust in my sensei. Discipline. Self-discipline. Respect for my body, respect for my fellow karate-ka, respect for my teachers. I am getting fit, losing weight, gaining strength. I am even learning to adjust to the idea of injury and pain being part of the process. I am earning respect from my fellow karate-ka, and that means something to me, too. Renewed self-esteem.

Self-defense is part of it, yes. And the art I am learning is deadly, with very little in the way of 'gentle' disarming or disabling techniques. To be used in the gravest extreme, because done properly, they will maim or kill. I would have no hesitation to use those techniques - but not unless I believe I do not have any other options.

I haven't changed my thoughts about self-defense at all. I've given myself more ability to avoid confrontations, if anything. I'm 48 years old. I'm all through with proving myself, I'm all done with showing I'm a man's man who doesn't back down. I have no need or desire to save face or keep my place in a peer-group pecking order. All I want is what I am getting - the ability to defend myself better if I am forced to do so. It will not increase the chances that I will find myself called upon to do so.

 

[Omar B]

I started as a kid because Batman was (still is) my hero and I wanted to be like him. At this point it's so much apart of my life that I could not picture not training for any extended period of time.

 

[seasoned]

At first, it was for the self defense, but in time, it just gets into your blood. Without Martial Arts there was always an uncertainty about fighting, and a feeling of having to prove something to yourself. Once a confidence is built up, it turns to avoidance of conflict. As my Sensei always said, “we learn how to fight so we don’t have to“.

 

[terryl965]

I am on a quest for total enlightment and so far the journey has been great. One day I hope to find the what my GM always said when to enlightment comes you will never ever forget that feeling.

 

[Gordon Nore]

The title of this thread is to discuss the views of why we train, and what we want to get out of the martial arts. Looking at some of the posts on some of the recent threads here, I see 2 views. One thinks twice about fighting and seems to view that as an extreme last resort, while the other puts it on a higher level. In other words, if those people are faced with a confrontation, they deal with it and if it means fighting, then so be it.

So, what are your views of this? Do you feel that too much emphasis is placed on the martial side instead of the art side?

Very solid point. They are martial arts. In that respect training is much like the pursuit of any art -- my classical guitar teacher once quoted a Chinese proverb to me: Neglect your art for one day; it will neglect you for two. Training is an exercise in reinventing and improving myself. One of the things that appealed to me about Asian martial arts (My background is Shotokan and Hapkido) is the repetition. There is something inherently noble and at the same time humbling in throwing thousands and thousands of kicks. Why do I have a good front kick? Because I've thrown a few hundred thousand of them. Why do I play guitar well? Because I practiced my scales.

Simply put: Being a good artist is hard work.

Fighting? Well, I've said this before. I know a bunch of different ways to screw up someone's day if I have to. It doesn't take a dan to grab a bad guy by his jewels and not let go. My need to be a better fighter is not what brings me back.

Thanks for starting this thread.

 

[teekin]

I find it has given me new ways to look at look at movement, human kinetics, the myriad of ways 2 people can engage in a game of physical chess. I find it beautiful to watch and very very difficult to learn, it is an Art.
(There are the hacks but there are in any Art) It is more a mental puzzle than physical one. Answers lead to more complex questions requiring more time and sweat equity to solve.
I have No interest in fighting, this is a intellectual quest that will end when my body or brain calls it quits.
lori

 

[Nolerama]

I started training hard due to a traumatic incident involving my face making friends with a group of guys' bootheels.

Training, progressing, making friends. That's what I needed. I don't hate those guys that did this to me anymore. I thank them for setting me on a good journey.

I've been more mellow that I've ever been in my life. Even when people mess with me in large groups (usually Cubs fans). I could care less. Now, that doesn't say I won't defend myself, but I like to keep that kind of physical exertion in the form of being a good training partner to my gym buddies.

My professional life has changed as well due to all of this. I'm more focused and tend to keep my cool. I'm generally happier and actively pursue my interests more.

I see the process of learning a Martial style as the journey... It's latter effects are the end result of the "Art" IMHO.

 

[KenpoTex]

So, what are your views of this? Do you feel that too much emphasis is placed on the martial side instead of the art side?

On the contrary...I think that most places put to much emphasis on the "art" and not enough on developing solid, effective close-combat skills.

If you lose the "martial," you might as well go learn ballroom dancing for all the good it's going to do you. In other words, all the peripheral benefits of martial-arts training (discipline, patience, camaraderie, etc.) can be found in other endeavors. If the system does not teach fighting skills that are validated by pressure-testing and constantly re-evaluated based on "real life" considerations, then what's the point?...

just my $0.02

 

[jonbey]

Traditional is often hard to find. In fact, what is traditional? A lot of what people consider traditional is not actually traditional at all. Martial arts should be about fighting really, but a lot can be gained from fitness alone. Some styles seem to forget that fighting is the core though, which is shame.

 

[Guardian]

There is more to it then fighting, unfortunately in todays society the fighting portion whether it's the sports side or the other side takes the main stage over what I call the spiritual side of the Martial Arts. I got into the MAs to learn to fight, but over the years, through education and maturity, I started to learn about the spiritual side, the calming features that come along with various aspects of the MAs (styles/systems) and I learned that by working out during a lunch hour, my morning stress was eliminated and my stress to come was handled easily, so I've started to take mini work outs at work again (very stressful work environment) and it's starting to work again.

To answer the question posed. I still say people still lean towards the fighting aspects of it, not all, but a large majority.

 

[searcher]

Growing up I had my dad teaching me and though it was OK, it had its holes in what I was learning. Then in Jr. High, I started getting picked on by these three guys. It was the same every day(with the occasional 2 extra guys jumping in from time to time). So I started seeking out something that would give me the upper hand. I wanted to make the BGs pay. This is why I place the level of emphasis that I do on the martial side. I do not want any of my students to have to go through what I did. I will do my best to help them to be ready to fight if/when the time comes.

I know there are other things that the MAs are there for and I am good with that, but for myself and my students, we are going to focus on what the guys who passed their systems on to me focused on. Fighting, plain and simple. It will not be our only area of focus, but it willbe the main area of focus.

JMO.

 

[Omar B]

You know, I didn't expect as many bully stories or people getting beaten up stories as motivation to start MA. I've never had a bully as a child, nor have I ever been beaten up, I can only imagine how bad that must be though. As I said before, I just loved superheros (and still do).

 

[Bill Mattocks]

If the system does not teach fighting skills that are validated by pressure-testing and constantly re-evaluated based on "real life" considerations, then what's the point?...

You will learn the point when life has kicked you dead square in the *** for the next 20 years, which it will.

Evaluate your life. Which is more likely - getting attacked by ninjas and using your MA skills to defend yourself, or having your car break down and needing to protect yourself from the elements?

If the trunk of your car has a wind-up radio, a lighter, a mirror, a first-aid kit, a sleeping bag, a gallon of bottled water, and a lensatic compass with a top map of the state, then I'd say you're covered. If not, MA skills won't start a fire when you're wet and cold and your car won't go.

The things I do in my life to 'protect myself' are a lot more potentially useful than my growing ability to throw a punch correctly. My wife and I have guns and we know how to use them and when. We can clear the rooms in our house. We have multiple escape routes. Emergency supplies. We have rally points to meet up with each other if we're seperated by circumstances during an emergency, natural or man-made.

We have fungible assets where we can get at them for barter or trade, we have caches of goods in other locations we can reach. We have CPR skills, we have first-aid kits that include animal medications that can be used on humans in emergencies. We can suture a wound, perform minor surgery. We have Wills, we have durable power of attorney's and DNRS and Living Wills on file in a variety of locations.

There are a thousand and one things that life is going to throw at you in the next twenty years, and ninjas are low on the list of probabilities.

What is the point? The point is, most people don't want to even consider the things that are MOST LIKELY to kill them, so they train to protect themselves against things that probably won't. Hey, I'm hip. I am way overweight and don't eat food that I know is good for me. Look at me, living on the edge.

Knowing twenty-seven ways to kill a man with one punch - or knowing how to make blood stop gushing from a compound fracture when you fall down the steps one morning. You tell me which one is 'real world'.

That's "the point."

My 2 cents...

 

[Bill Mattocks]

You know, I didn't expect as many bully stories or people getting beaten up stories as motivation to start MA. I've never had a bully as a child, nor have I ever been beaten up, I can only imagine how bad that must be though. As I said before, I just loved superheros (and still do).

I saw this and thought of you...

http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Handbook-Ultimate-Training-Manual/dp/1594740232

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Traditional is often hard to find. In fact, what is traditional? A lot of what people consider traditional is not actually traditional at all. Martial arts should be about fighting really, but a lot can be gained from fitness alone. Some styles seem to forget that fighting is the core though, which is shame.

"Martial Arts" is a Western term. Eastern self-defense skills were generally neither martial (meaning military), nor an art.

Karate-do means empty-hand way. It is a way and not an art. It was not taught to soldiers, it was taught to peasants.

We in the West made it into a 'Martial Art' and then complain that it isn't one. It's like calling your car a plane and then being mad that it doesn't fly.

 

[Omar B]

I have it. Dude, there's nothing printed with Batman, Superman, Green Lantern or Flash that I don't have. I'm 28 and still at the comic shop every Tuesday.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I have it. Dude, there's nothing printed with Batman, Superman, Green Lantern or Flash that I don't have. I'm 28 and still at the comic shop every Tuesday.

I'm more of a Wolverine fan, although frankly, I got into Hellblazer and never really looked back. Hellstrom was good, though. Paul, the Samurai was also good.

 

[sgtmac_46]

The title of this thread is to discuss the views of why we train, and what we want to get out of the martial arts. Looking at some of the posts on some of the recent threads here, I see 2 views. One thinks twice about fighting and seems to view that as an extreme last resort, while the other puts it on a higher level. In other words, if those people are faced with a confrontation, they deal with it and if it means fighting, then so be it.

So, what are your views of this? Do you feel that too much emphasis is placed on the martial side instead of the art side?

Actually I feel too much emphasis is put on the art side.......it dilutes and waters down the nature of thing itself. Too much 'art' turns function in to a pretty dance.....which is fine if that is all someone is interested in, but we need to be honest with the nature of what it is we are doing.

 

[sgtmac_46]

On the contrary...I think that most places put to much emphasis on the "art" and not enough on developing solid, effective close-combat skills.

If you lose the "martial," you might as well go learn ballroom dancing for all the good it's going to do you. In other words, all the peripheral benefits of martial-arts training (discipline, patience, camaraderie, etc.) can be found in other endeavors. If the system does not teach fighting skills that are validated by pressure-testing and constantly re-evaluated based on "real life" considerations, then what's the point?...

just my $0.02

Exactly what I was thinking.