The Warrior ar Servant

[bushidomartialarts]

So I'm working on my thesis for an upcoming rank promotion, and the following idea is rattling around in my head.

So the Warrior (a word most martial artists tend to capitalize) is a strong archetype. Whether you're talking about a samurai, a templar or a navy SEAL, we have this image of a dangerous human standing ready to defend others. A Warrior is somebody who's willing to step up and take risks so others don't have to.

What if we expand on that theme a bit and say a Warrior is somebody who's wililng to do all the necessary things that others don't want to. That sort of service would include rescue work, charity fundraising. It would even include being the person who acts like a grownup when you're fussing with your spouse.

Perhaps being a Warrior is ultimately about service. About being willing to put our egos away completely and surrender to needful things, rather than enforcing our egos on those around us.

Thoughts? Expansions? Ideas? Books I should read that explore this?

 

[Andrew Green]

I don't think so, once you define it as work no one else is willing to do you get things like public bathroom cleaners, garbage pickers, mine workers, etc.

Not people I would call warriors. Mine workers is even a high risk occupation, and depending on the time period, a very high risk one, yet not a warrior.

Same with domestic slaves, they are definately there to serve, and are doing things most people wouldn't, but are they warriors? How about sex slaves? Sweatshop workers?

No, I don't think Warrior can be generalized in that way. Warriors go to war, whether for good reasons or bad, that is what makes them warriors.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

That's an interesting point. I don't agree with your limitation to just war (for example, most people would include firemen as warriors), but a garbageman or mineworker definitely doesn't work.

I think a point needs be made about willingness. Very few mineworkers or sanitation engineers are in that job for any reason other than it's the job they wound up with. There's no sense of stepping up, just stepping in.

Etymology aside, the concept of 'warrior' as simply somebody who goes to war is pretty outmoded. A teacher is a warrior in my book, but a pro boxer isn't -- even though the pro boxer spends time in combat.

 

[Andrew Green]

Ok, how about a gladiator? A slave forced to fight? They did not step up, they where thrown in. Yet I think if you did a poll more people would put a Gladiator as a warrior then a teacher.

Not to mention that in Feudal societies, after the gladiators , knights and Samurai did not step up, they where born into those positions.

 

[Touch Of Death]

So I'm working on my thesis for an upcoming rank promotion, and the following idea is rattling around in my head.

So the Warrior (a word most martial artists tend to capitalize) is a strong archetype. Whether you're talking about a samurai, a templar or a navy SEAL, we have this image of a dangerous human standing ready to defend others. A Warrior is somebody who's willing to step up and take risks so others don't have to.

What if we expand on that theme a bit and say a Warrior is somebody who's wililng to do all the necessary things that others don't want to. That sort of service would include rescue work, charity fundraising. It would even include being the person who acts like a grownup when you're fussing with your spouse.

Perhaps being a Warrior is ultimately about service. About being willing to put our egos away completely and surrender to needful things, rather than enforcing our egos on those around us.

Thoughts? Expansions? Ideas? Books I should read that explore this?

One metaphore I like to refer to is that a true Warrior is a Golden Thread in the Fabric of Time.
Sean

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Another word I feel is best taken litterally. A warrior IS someone who goes to war. War can mean many things but usually has two or more parties competing in some way. We have many other terms to use so there's no point changing the percieved meaning of the word because you like the word and want to be associated with it. A fighter is someone who fights. A combattant does combat. A teacher teaches. A servant serves others (supposedly). Someone can be all of these at the same time or none of them, ever.

 

[Sukerkin]

An intriguing proposition, bushido.

I know that 'warrior' has started to be used in other contexts than it's original but it's always as a metaphor. A fireman may be termed a "warrior against the consuming fire, defending those that flames would make victim" but he is not truly a warrior.

The word has a specific meaning and to try to apply it where it does not belong cheapens the term in my opinion (look what's happened to the impact of the words 'awesome' or, even worse, 'hero', due to misuse).

There are of course shades of meaning to the word, which will depend on a persons general culture and specific background.

So, for me, a 'warrior' is different from and, at least potentially, morally superior to a 'fighter' i.e. in my mindset, the word has a more paladinic hue as I impose tones of service, self-sacrifice and deliberate shouldering of others burdens whilst following the 'rules of war' with honour.

 

[JBrainard]

What if we expand on that theme a bit and say a Warrior is somebody who's wililng to do all the necessary things that others don't want to. That sort of service would include rescue work, charity fundraising. It would even include being the person who acts like a grownup when you're fussing with your spouse.

Perhaps being a Warrior is ultimately about service. About being willing to put our egos away completely and surrender to needful things, rather than enforcing our egos on those around us.

Thoughts? Expansions? Ideas? Books I should read that explore this?

As has been shown in the posts above, "Warrior" already has too many connotations attached to it. If you add another, it's just going to cause more confusion.
Notice what I put in bold. Maybe "Zen Warrior" are the words you are looking for.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

An intriguing proposition, bushido.

I know that 'warrior' has started to be used in other contexts than it's original but it's always as a metaphor. A fireman may be termed a "warrior against the consuming fire, defending those that flames would make victim" but he is not truly a warrior.

The word has a specific meaning and to try to apply it where it does not belong cheapens the term in my opinion (look what's happened to the impact of the words 'awesome' or, even worse, 'hero', due to misuse).

There are of course shades of meaning to the word, which will depend on a persons general culture and specific background.

So, for me, a 'warrior' is different from and, at least potentially, morally superior to a 'fighter' i.e. in my mindset, the word has a more paladinic hue as I impose tones of service, self-sacrifice and deliberate shouldering of others burdens whilst following the 'rules of war' with honour.

I agree. That's why I take words litterally. Perspective is all well and good, but there needs to be a SOLID meaning or the word has no meaning. Any of these words can be applied metaphorically, indeed the more creative you are, the more universal any of these "meanings" become. I just suspect a lot of people interpret words they like so that they can apply it to themselves. Anybody can buy a black belt. Anybody can call themselves a warrior. A solid, litteral meaning becomes what is official. Once something is official though, does that make it fact? Only facts can't be argued. I just talked myself into a circle. Help!

 

[Carol]

I belieive some MA teachers try to purport a servant mentality amongst their students, but I don't think servitude is a trait of a warrior.

 

[Andrew Green]

I belieive some MA teachers try to purport a servant mentality amongst their students, but I don't think servitude is a trait of a warrior.

Thats cause they think they are Samurais (One who serves), and training samurais, which means all there trainies should snap too when they walk in and provide free labour and give full obedience

But, I will grant that servitude is in a sense a piece of the warrior mentality. Soldiers have to follow orders.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Clearly not one of my more popular opinions (nor my best job of typing). I'm not certain I'm right, but let's play with it a while longer...

I'd argue that a gladiator isn't necessarily a warrior, any more than a conscripted troop -- but, because combat includes competition and opportunity to display courage, it's easier to be a warrior as either of those than as, say, a hairdresser.

And I guess that's the core of my idea: combat is not, in and of itself, a measure of courage or personal srength. Combat is simply an arena where those traits can be displayed easily.

Is a soldier on the front line showing more courage than fireman in a burning building? I'd say no (though to be clear I'm not saying the soldier is without courage).

For many of us here (alpha male pseudo jock martial arts junkies that we are), stepping into a fight requires less courage and personal grit than, say, apologizing to our spouses.

Core here is what are the defining characteristics of a warrior. I'd stress courage, a desire to help (paladin was a nice picture Sukerkin, even if you've now branded yourself as a hopeless geek. me too), personal integrity. Looks like the counterpoint, supported by etymology, is that the defining characteristic of a warrior is, well, war.

 

[stone_dragone]

Thats cause they think they are Samurais (One who serves), and training samurais, which means all there trainies should snap too when they walk in and provide free labour and give full obedience

But, I will grant that servitude is in a sense a piece of the warrior mentality. Soldiers have to follow orders.

Not sure, but I think "samurai" is both singular and plural...no need for the additional "s".

As for the topic on hand, I recommend "Living the Martial Way." as a starting point for the "what is a warrior?" discussion.

 

[Sukerkin]

I didn't want to be the one to say but, yes, 1 Samurai, 10,000 Samurai, there's only ever one "S" in it ROFL!

 

[bushidomartialarts]

10,000 samurai would have 10,000 esses, 10,001 if you count the ess in 'thousand'

 

[Nobody]

No, if you are a sanitation engineer an you do martial arts an feel you are a Samaria you are actually a ninjer, cause you in disguise. That is so they don't see you coming to kill them or you could be a pirate.
.irate5:

 

[Sukerkin]

10,000 samurai would have 10,000 esses, 10,001 if you count the ess in 'thousand'

ROFL - Smarty Pants ... gets out little black book, makes careful note of username :lol:.

 

[seasoned]

Warrior, “true warrior”. I think a warrior will die for a cause, but a true warrior will fight and die for what he feels is right and just. I don’t think it pertains only to an occupation. Ask me to die for a friend depends on the mood, force me to fight for my family and someone will die and someone will live. I think the true warrior will be standing. If you don’t feel this in your heart, then it won’t happen.

 

[Bigshadow]

Whether you're talking about a samurai, a templar or a navy SEAL, we have this image of a dangerous human standing ready to defend others.

What do all of these folks have in common? They give of themselves for others. They don't do it for self gratification, trophies, titles, greed or infamy. They give of themselves so that others can be safe and sleep at night.

This is much like artists. Artists create works of art to bring other's enjoyment. They give of themselves to bring happiness and enjoyment to others.

There is no wonder the word "Warrior" has been used in the same sentences as martial "artists".

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Thanks Bigshadow, you're the first to support my thesis. I'm glad somebody agrees with me.