Humility & the Martial Arts

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

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"Humility & the Martial Arts."

I actually used to practice this, believe in it, and encourage my students to embrace it as well. Reading over some recent threads, and the pissing contests in them, I thought to comment on MA-ists as being THE PEOPLE who should certainly get along, regardless of general philosophical differences or generational backgrounds. Then I re-read some of my own posts, and realized I haven't got a leg to stand on. I've been as big an *** as the people I want to tell to knock it off.

A buddy of mine, also an MA-ist and Chiro, recently bumped into a psych/chiro. My buddy commented on how chaotic his practice is, and the shrink sez, "As a martial artist, haven't you learned to bring peace into the room with you where ever you go, instead of chaos?". Well, no. He's been a paramedic for eons prior to Chiro, so only knows how to respond from emergency to emergency, sapping energy by the end of the day. I spent more time in sales and bouncing then as a Chiro, so I go in either trying to regulate their behavior or influence their spending habits. Still not a very nurturing environment for healing arts.

Reading posts in which guys are slammin each other; Mods bagging on folks, and folks bagging on Mods...even after they're sanctioning themselves for their behavior...it's just insane. I'll be the first to admit that looking for a place to dust the cobwebs off of bantering skills is half the fun of these sites, but there has to be a place at which we recognize the boundaries of human decency by regulating our endless ego's, and look to building each other up. Personally, what I don't know about the history of kenpo, some (most?) of the forms, different views on what they ought to teach and why...can fill volumes compared to the small bits I do know.

I blacked in a kenpo-based eclectic system first (kenpo, Judo, kick-boxing, TKD, blah, blah, blah), then in a kenpo offshoot from one of the breakaways from the early days. As such, many of the techs I learned are not the way they're done in "straight" AK, and many of the forms I learned are not the ones offered in Kenpo at present (i.e., never learned LF 5, 6 etc., and am positioning myself to do so under a senior as soon as my schedule opens a bit). Learned Book Set as a Black Belt form, but I'm reading on the web that it's a green belt form. Learned Bassai Sho and Bassai Dai as Brown Belt forms, but have no idea in JMA where they usually are placed in a cirriculum. Tried several times to "return to the source" to learn AK, the AK way, with AK seniors, but also struggle with a learning disability (ADHD+Dyslexia), and so can't remember OVER HALF of what they taught me (still do stoopid things like get technique names wrong, calling "twisted twig" about a million other things; why not just call it "defense against a front wristlock"?). BJJ I can remember easier, b/c it's more of a kinesthetic transfer of information, then didactic lecture in auditory format with kinesthetic supplementation (the way many AK classes are taught). Also makes it harder to dialogue about online, without being able to jump in and show someone what your talking about.

Additionally, I would dig asking some of the kenpo/kajukenbo oldsters about what they might recall about a couple of my instructors, both the shadier breakaways, and the "straights". I heard their side of the story, and can't help but wonder what others might know about it and have to say (Doc; Mr. Con.; Mr. Bishop)

I would LOVE to be able to ask questions about these things on the various appropriate fora, but have avoided doing so out of a conviction that I could expect to be slammed, and would have to read btw the flames before I found an earnest answer to my question. Why is it so hard? Becuase, for all the discussion about teaching character and humility in the arts, it is a field wrought with the workings of pride and narcissism, and not humility or edification.

I thought it was admirable that some of the mods self-selected for sanctioning about an issue that...well, I'm not even sure what it was about, and don't care enought to do the thread research to find out. In a world where the US Gov,t. resists taking responsibility for the actions of its agents, and offers insincere apologies through clenched teeth, I admired the willingness of Mr. Hubbard to remove himself from his own creation for a time. I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, as well; particularly by the 100-yard warriors who use the anonymity of the kharma system to take pot shots from behind shrubbery.

Yes, I'm guilty, too. But in the immortal words of Rodney King, or Jack Nicholsen from "Mars Attacks", which ever you prefer, "can't we all just get along?".

I've had my feathers ruffled, and been too readily caught up in the d$%k-swinging contests that go on here. But, hopefully, I'll be able to check my behavior in the future, and avoid re-committing the errata of the past.

I know some don't believe that MA training is for character building, but for combat only. If that's true, quit wasting time training in MA, and spend all your money and time buying guns and explosives, because that is the MA of the 21st century. Meanwhile, I'll try to take a higher road, and invite any who wish to, to do the same. Remember the bumper sticker: Mean people suck. And that includes those who are just too darned sure they're right about everything.

Off the soapbox.

Proud bastard child practitioner of a bastard style of martial arts, hoping to improve,

Dr. Dave
 

Gentle Fist

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Great post.... You put light on a subject that most people have a problem with..That being truth in the arts or lack there of. So many get caught up in which art is the best, which ones don't work, and yadda yadda. For the most part each one of us on this board know very little about our own art let alone the entire world of arts. But on the other hand if we all combine our knowledge, we know a whole hell of a lot.
 

Touch Of Death

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The Bumper sticker on my Nissan says, "Mean People Kick ***!". Anyways the biggest problem with this site (or any) is that wounds aren't heeling. By that I mean some poor guy like Cobra asks some, to put it bluntly, naive questions and he gets dog piled by people obviosly mad about something else. If the Master of a system gets slighted, all his disciples pounce at the most off-hand mention of his name. I'm one to talk but I'll tell you the advice given to me recently by one of my "current" instructors... Just ask questions such as why do you feel that way or why did you draw that conclusion. They will either explain themselves or show they aren't willing to explore that avenue.
Sean
 

Michael Billings

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Dr. Dave, truely, you are stepping up to the plate and asking "what can I do", given that changing others is always a losing proposition. I commend and applaud your intent and post.

Watch out Sean,
Anyways the biggest problem with this site (or any) is that wounds aren't heeling. By that I mean some poor guy like Cobra asks some, to put it bluntly, naive questions and he gets dog piled by people obviosly mad about something else. If the Master of a system gets slighted, all his disciples pounce at the most off-hand mention of his name. I'm one to talk but I'll tell you the advice given to me recently by one of my "current" instructors... Just ask questions such as why do you feel that way or why did you draw that conclusion. They will either explain themselves or show they aren't willing to explore that avenue.
I might recommend you to be a Mod if you keep up the good work and insights. Just what you always wanted right? Just cause we don't always agree does not make me right, or you ... just different perspectives in an ever changing environment.

Kudos Guys,
-Michael
smileJap.gif
 

MA-Caver

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Kembudo-Kai Kempoka, you're to be admired for the post and if I knew how to give you a reputation point I would. Anyrate my two bits.
Communication is the absolute key in any relationship. Either here as a group expressing ideas and opinions (or off hand, off the cuff remarks :uhyeah: ) or with our individual instructors or with our families or friends or whomever! Without communication and proper and effective communication (assertive communication)... we might as well disband this whole thing altogether.
Sure people are people and will say what the first thing that comes up in their minds. Mainly (IMO and it is just mine) people (in general) tend to confuse feelings with thoughts or vice-versa. We think with our heads but we feel with our hearts. I was pondering this a couple of nights ago. People (Humans) are feeling creatures. Problem is that we tend to think what we're feeling is what we should be thinking. If we differentiate the two then perhaps life would be a lot simpler. We feel but at the same time we acknowledge what we're feeling and then look at the reasons why we are feeling the way we do. Be it happy, pissed, sad, fear or any other one of the dozens in our own personal inventories.
Once we understand the feeling then the thought process helps us rationalize better the cause and effect. (I'm rambling ... I know it! ...whud did he say?? :idunno: )
Many posts get put on because we react to the feelings towards what we're reading. I feel that it's best to stop and think and wait a day before posting off the cuff, particularly if the post we're reading is making us feel less than positive. I try to anyway. I'm not always successful though. But overall I do trust my feelings and I do trust my thoughts as they look at what's causing the feelings. It's taken a while and I'm not completely there (yeah right not all there...ok, ok, ok ... geez... :rolleyes: ) but I do feel that I'm well along on the journey towards whatever destination this particular path (of many that I follow) is going to take me.
Just sharing my two bits (perhaps fo bits), as humbly as possible. :asian:
 

Touch Of Death

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Michael Billings said:
Dr. Dave, truely, you are stepping up to the plate and asking "what can I do", given that changing others is always a losing proposition. I commend and applaud your intent and post.

Watch out Sean,
I might recommend you to be a Mod if you keep up the good work and insights. Just what you always wanted right? Just cause we don't always agree does not make me right, or you ... just different perspectives in an ever changing environment.

Kudos Guys,
-Michael
smileJap.gif
I have thought about it; however, there are large blocks of time I might not be available. I do a 36 hour Weekend shift where I work.
Sean
 

7starmantis

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Very good post, its something I have been noticing as well, I have said it a few times, although not as well spoken as you did, but it is one of the reasons my posting has fallen off in frequency as much as it has. The ego issue is everywhere in today's society, we are dealing with it in our advanced class at my school as well. It takes a conscious everyday (every moment sometimes) effort to curb. I think the best advice I have ever heard or given about this is basically, "Think before you speak". Thats the way to stop yourself from participating in the ego-fest. Yes, we all do it, and I think we will all probably do it again sometime, but we can lessen our chances if we stop and think about what we are saying, why we are saying it, and how others might take what it is we are going to say. I know, that sounds like alot of work! But so is MA.

Good Post, very well said!

7sm
 
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Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

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Thank you each for your feedback. I'm hoping, personally, to see improvements over time in the quality of my contributions to the board, and the respect I can show to others in the process. Do me a favor: If you see me stray, whack me in the back of the head with something solid.

Regards,

Dave
 

7starmantis

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uh huh, I now see the true colors! This was an elabrate ploy to get reputation points wasn't it!! :ultracool


J/K Its good to have people like you on the boards!!

7sm
 
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c2kenpo

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Dr. Dave wonderfull post.

The one thing I have always thought was that the martial arts was a way of bringing people together instead of further apart.
It doesn't matter what background you come from or how much you know or dont' know. It doesn't matter what beliefs or creeds you have. It doesn't matter how you dress or what you look like. It doesn't matter where you come from or where you are going in life.

When we put on our gi's / unifomrs / training clothes and you get out on the mat or gym floor or garage to train...look at your students and fellow classmates and ask yourself what you see.

All I see are my friends each and every one of them. We may not go out to lunch, we may not even call each other on the phone. We may not even speak to each other outside of the studio. For whatever reasons we have this is the way things are.

But when we do see each other or decide to get together the one thing that brings us together is our love for the martial arts and the joy that we have sharing it with each other. If all we do is make one small attempt to apply what we learn in the martial arts about Concentration, Self-control, self-discipline, physical fitness, respect, Self-esteem, and self-defense to our work lives and our lives outside of the martial arts think of how many more friends you can meet.

Dr. Dave you have simply put in words what many see here in a forum where many multitudes of ideas and thought congregate. The unfortunate thing is that some of us and Myself have been guilty of this ,(Can't see past our own cubicle) We build walls around ourselves and when something comes in that we don't agree with we attack it.
Sean once again you are right , Just because someone doesn't explain themselves perfectly in typograph here in the forum we sometimes question the validity of that person.

Thank you sir for placing your thoughts and feelings on this topic on the table and I am glad you did.

Respectfully to all the members of Martial Talk :asian:

David Gunzburg
 
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Fortis

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Good thread here. However, I would try not to get too down on Martial Artists as a whole and whether or not they have humility. Internet forums are a prime location for people to go when they're looking to slam someone or to watch someone slam someone else. Even if you don't believe in this practice (and I think most on this site are truly good people), look at the threads that tend to be the most popular: the ones where there is "drama" of some sort. It is just the nature of the beast with this medium.

I guess what I'm saying is that it isn't necessarily a lack of humility by the Martial Artists that post on this internet forum, but just the fact that it is an internet forum.
 
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Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

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Fortis said:
Good thread here. However, I would try not to get too down on Martial Artists as a whole and whether or not they have humility. Internet forums are a prime location for people to go when they're looking to slam someone or to watch someone slam someone else. Even if you don't believe in this practice (and I think most on this site are truly good people), look at the threads that tend to be the most popular: the ones where there is "drama" of some sort. It is just the nature of the beast with this medium.

I guess what I'm saying is that it isn't necessarily a lack of humility by the Martial Artists that post on this internet forum, but just the fact that it is an internet forum.
I'm almost tempted to use this as an excuse for my own poor behavior. Nah. Only a thing embraced can be truly learned from, including crow pie.

I suppose we could start dramatically arguing over wether or not we should be dramatically arguing? It would certainly pass the time, yes? :)

D.
 
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Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

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7starmantis said:
uh huh, I now see the true colors! This was an elabrate ploy to get reputation points wasn't it!! :ultracool


J/K Its good to have people like you on the boards!!

7sm
*dammit! caught wearing womens underwear, again! On my head, no less!* Whah, Scahlet, what eavah do yah mean?

Butt, seriously...this was a rant-post based on some introspective observations about my own tacky behavior, and it's resonant cohorts on the board. If any one...even the people whom I've alienated and been a pisser to on the board, thinks I did this strictly to gain some brownie points, let the Mods know you suspect this, and they have my full blessing to remove them completely.

I have noticed some of the conversations are hard to participate in without being adversarial, so I'm slowly learning to just stay out.

Namaste!

D.
 

loki09789

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Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
*dammit! caught wearing womens underwear, again! On my head, no less!* Whah, Scahlet, what eavah do yah mean?

Butt, seriously...this was a rant-post based on some introspective observations about my own tacky behavior, and it's resonant cohorts on the board. If any one...even the people whom I've alienated and been a pisser to on the board, thinks I did this strictly to gain some brownie points, let the Mods know you suspect this, and they have my full blessing to remove them completely.

I have noticed some of the conversations are hard to participate in without being adversarial, so I'm slowly learning to just stay out.

Namaste!

D.
Along those lines, I have learned to make the attempt to ignore the jabs that are mixed in with the topical responses at times. I don't think there isn't a person here who hasn't felt the power of 'shadow fighting' because you are so removed from the other people you are replying to.... sort of lends credence to the idea that the politest community is an armed community...:)
 

TigerWoman

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loki09789 said:
Along those lines, I have learned to make the attempt to ignore the jabs that are mixed in with the topical responses at times.

I haven't been here but a month, but I have learned there is a lot of testosterone floating around. Opinions stated in this forum are just that, opinions and who is to know who is right, who even has the credentials or experience. Not much humilty in arguing every point to death to prove you are superior This is not a contest. We are here, I believe, to share our experience to better MA, not argue, attack, or cut other people down ie bad rep points. To do that says we are always right. A little respect and humility toward another's viewpoint-like Sean/TOD said - can go a long way. You want to be respected, respect others.
 

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