The system itself

[terryl965]

What do you believe is the true system of TKD? I know we have alot of organization out there and so on but I'm not looking at the sport aspect at all. What I am looking for is organization that is holding true to the concept of TKD before it was TKD, if that makes since to anybody, my book is almost done and I would love to add some types of orgs. that hold true to the original teaching.
Thank you so much
Terry

 

[FieldDiscipline]

What I am looking for is organization that is holding true to the concept of TKD before it was TKD, if that makes since to anybody

Do you know Terry, that is food for thought! I suspect Exile may have some useful input here. The World Chun Kuhn Do Federation I think fits the bill.

Book sounds interesting...

 

[stoneheart]

The Chayon-Ryu system under GM Kim Soo preserves all of the forms he learned from his teachers. They do the old Japanese forms as well as the Palgwes with some Chuan Fa forms thrown in too.

 

[MSUTKD]

I do not think any system is the true system. I think that individual instructors are what make things true. I think that students who put their all into the art are true. I have met high ranking teachers from “organizations” that did not know anything about martial arts and I have met instructors teaching from their garages that could inspire any who listened. We make the difference not the style or organization; we have to have passion, and that is contagious. My teacher always told me that rank, style mean nothing, but I have to make it mean something.

ron

p.s. Terry, tell Zach, “hi” and that I will see you guys in December!

 

[Bumblebee]

That's deep and although I have thought about each of us as individuals making something great before, it's always really cool to hear others speak the truth.

 

[terryl965]

I do not think any system is the true system. I think that individual instructors are what make things true. I think that students who put their all into the art are true. I have met high ranking teachers from “organizations” that did not know anything about martial arts and I have met instructors teaching from their garages that could inspire any who listened. We make the difference not the style or organization; we have to have passion, and that is contagious. My teacher always told me that rank, style mean nothing, but I have to make it mean something.

ron

p.s. Terry, tell Zach, “hi” and that I will see you guys in December!

Excellent post by the way and Zachary and the rest of the family says hello and are looking forward to you coming down this way. Sorry we missed you when we was up in Michigan, maybe next time we can get together.
Terry

 

[the kenpo kid]

i dont know if its still around or not but i used to know an martail arts dojo that tought the original art. you could look it up it was cho's hop ki do and tkd
i dont know if this helps you or not

 

[Bumblebee]

Not really, because he's looking for an organization or association that's still holds true to the traditional Taekwondo. What you described was a school that teaches Taekwondo and Hapkido.

 

[WMKS Shogun]

My system is the true Tae Kwon Do system!!!! (Please note i say this ENTIRELY as a joke) Now that I have that out of my system (pun slightly intended), let me get right down to it. I think most styles/organizations still hold true to many of the ideas Tae Kwon Do was founded on. The fact of the matter is Tae Kwon Do is a living art. Each style/system has its strong points. ITF/Chang Hon keeps true to many of the kwan era concepts. Strong kicks, but still good hand techniques. WTF/ Taeguk/Palgwe train many of the kicks Tae Kwon do is famous for, and has brought it Korea together, and shown their glory to the world. ATA/Song Ahm style have taken Tae Kwon Do and brought it up as a philosophical art that seeks to make its students better people. (These are of course VERY VERY BROAD GENERALIZATIONS).

 

[exile]

Folks—I'm just now getting to this thread (my usual night-into-day story, big mistake now as I'm competing in a tournament tomorrow, but the die is cast...)

Do you know Terry, that is food for thought! I suspect Exile may have some useful input here. The World Chun Kuhn Do Federation I think fits the bill.

Book sounds interesting...

The Chayon-Ryu system under GM Kim Soo preserves all of the forms he learned from his teachers. They do the old Japanese forms as well as the Palgwes with some Chuan Fa forms thrown in too.

Sincere thanks to both of you, guys—I've checked out some basic sources on the orgs you mention (Chun Kuhn Do, Chayon-Ryu) and see some very attactive things about both of them—in particular, their emphasis on (i) historical truthfulness, and (ii) a more complete vision of the MAs, corresponding, so far as I can see, to the old Okinawan Shuri-te concept of a linear striking art which uses pins, locks, traps and other controlling movements, along with sweeps, throws and other unbalancing movement to set up finishing strikes as rapidly as possible. I view both of these as very healthy developments, particularly in the current, ring-sparring focus of TKD... but I'm pretty sure I'm preaching to the choir here, so I'll quit on that theme. The only other thing I wanted to say is that my take on Terry's question is a little different; I'm thinking he's interested in a model of what an organization should be that would promote a more complete vision of TKD, one more in line with its close-quarters SD role, emphasizing practical applications (along the lines described in both of the sites I've linked to) rather than sparring-style strategy and tactics. And this is where MSUTKD's post is very germane:

I do not think any system is the true system. I think that individual instructors are what make things true. I think that students who put their all into the art are true. I have met high ranking teachers from “organizations” that did not know anything about martial arts and I have met instructors teaching from their garages that could inspire any who listened. We make the difference not the style or organization; we have to have passion, and that is contagious. My teacher always told me that rank, style mean nothing, but I have to make it mean something.[/

My view is something like this, though all such perspectives are by their very nature going to differ somewhat. The knowledge, skill and insight of individual instructors is going to differ and vary... and that suggests that we try to get together and pool our knowledge and ideas, and test out those ideas, in as nonsectarian a way as possible. I'm not talking about giving up our individual arts, I hope that's clear! What I'm after is more something like the approach of the British Combat Association, where practitioners of various MA frequently meet in seminars and `practical' symposia to test out things like kata bunkai, grappling techs in striking arts, approaches to pre-emptive defense and guarding techniques (such as Geoff Thompson's `fence') and so on. There is no fixed curriculum per se; what you have instead are experienced traditional MAists, many of whom have logged up years of street combat in their capacity as club security staff, doorment, bouncers and bodyguards—guys like Geoff Thompson, Peter Consterdine and Lawrence Kane—assembling at irregular intervals to put their best strategic and tactical ideas about strategy and tactics to the severest tests under `alive' fighting conditions. A number of these folks are senior karate instructors and their students benefit directly from this experimental, combat-oriented, always practical approach to the applications of their `home' TMAs. The BCA is my ideal of what a MA organization should be—not a federation or controlling directorate, but a loose association of realistic MAists with decades of expertise and hard combat experience, who jointly conduct seminars, workshops and serious testing of their martial knowledge, and share their results with each other freely.

Are there any organizational models like this on this side of the Atlantic? I suspect that our own Brian van Cise's Instinctive Response Training is at the center of an emerging North American version of the BCA. Take a look at their web site and judge for yourself (there's a link in his signature). So far as TKD is concerned, the BCA people have welcomed practitioners with open arms, and Stuart Anslow plays an important role there in hooking TKD up with its cousin arts on the Japanese/Okinawan karate side. I think one day this will also be the story for a lot of progressive TKD schools that don't want to become either McDojangs or purely tournament-sparring training halls.

And now I gotta get to bed, if I want to be able to stand up tomorrow, let alone perform Palgwe Chil Jang even a little bit coherently...

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I agree with what you have said there. Have you read some of Geoff Thompson's books and articles? He is very good. You cant join the BCA as an idividual unfortunately, if you are a TMA practitioner, you have to bring your club with you. Maybe something for the future.

Good luck with your competition today Exile. Let us know how you get on.

 

[DArnold]

What do you believe is the true system of TKD? I know we have alot of organization out there and so on but I'm not looking at the sport aspect at all. What I am looking for is organization that is holding true to the concept of TKD before it was TKD, if that makes since to anybody, my book is almost done and I would love to add some types of orgs. that hold true to the original teaching.
Thank you so much
Terry

Just as TKD has changed, and a persons ability to understand the change, changes, would you define what you mean by a "true system".

Are you looking for something narrow, "close in SD" like Exile thought you meant or would it be a larger view where it encompases the physical and mental aspects as well? Moral culture, tenets, student oath...

Would I consider the true system of dentistry to be what was practiced in the 50's or what is parcticed today?

There is no way I am going back to the high tide pants!
My knee jerk reaction to such a vague question was the same as others, "My organization... of course!" :ultracool

 

[terryl965]

What I was looking for is the whole culture aspect of TKD with the primary emphasis on SD. IF that makes sense.