Grading Intervals

[BobHope]

Hi Everyone,

I'm at a Tae Kwon Do school up here in sunny Scotland!

I paid a joining fee of £100 and then £50 there after for two 45 minute sessions each week. Every three months we have a grading, which currently costs us £25 a time....

I'm currently tied in for a year at this school.

What I wanted to check was about the frequency of the gradings. Once we get past Green Belt, we still grade every 3 months (at £25 a time), but our instructor has added "tag" grades inbetween the main belts which we need to pass before we are able to move onto the next belt.

I understand that learning a martial art takes a long time, but I fear that my school is geared more for making money that the training of it's pupils....The longer it takes to train and the more gradings that we have to take equals more money for the school....

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Bobby.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Hi Bobby,

There should be 9 ranks before your BB.

The typical belts listed here: http://www.steveconway.net/tk_information/belts.htm I cant vouch for the rest of the page as I havent read it, just looked for belts to save me typing them!

Three months between them is pretty much the norm I think and IMHO the minimum.

I do think that £100 is a pretty hefty joining fee, what does this include? Also £50 isnt too bad, but its not cheap!

What organisation have you joined? WTF/ITF, BTCB etc?

Good luck with TKD!

 

[Tez3]

Fifty pounds! Good grief! The average cost of martial arts in the UK is around £6-10 for TWO HOURS training. Private one to one lessons average cost £30 per hour. Your really shouldn't be paying much more than £5 an hour.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Fifty pounds! Good grief! The average cost of martial arts in the UK is around £6-10 for TWO HOURS training. Private one to one lessons average cost £30 per hour. Your really shouldn't be paying much more than £5 an hour.

I think he means a month. I hope he means a month!

 

[Tez3]

There is an association doing TKD (won't name them) who charges that much per week. Also they lock you in with a contract, the owner drives around in a very nice expensive car!
for £50 a month at our club you can have two 2 hour sessions a week, plus use the club for your own fitness training.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

The thing is some people will pay it! In my experience you also tend to find that the better instructors charge less.

 

[Bumblebee]

I'm shocked that there's a joining fee at all. I hadn't heard about anyone charging a joining fee until now. However, I've heard of students having to buy their own uniform. Perhaps the joining fee went towards that?

I pay $77.00/Month at my dojang, I can go to as many classes as they hold. They usually have 4 classes a day Monday-Thursday, 3 classes on Friday and 1 class on Saturday. I also have the option to go to my Grandmaster's son's school for extra training.

Another thing to add about grading is that belt systems can differ from school to school even within federation to federation and association to association.

 

[BobHope]

Hiya Guys,

Yeah, sorry, speed typed that a little too quickly I think!

To clarify, I'm paying £50 a month for two 45 minute lessons a week. I'm tied into the club for two years, but managed to negotiate a get out clause after a year.

I got my uniform with my joining fee, but I've since been told I've gotta pay an extra £12 for a school badge.

With regard to the grading fees, I only get a belt with that upon a successful grading exam. I was hoping for some certificate or qualification card, but it appears you don't get anything?

My school in affiliated with Black Belt Schools International.

Back to the point about time between belts, I'm comfortable about athe need for a minimum time between belts etc, and also about reaching a suitable standard before progressing. But to me it appears my school is simply dragging out the time it takes to progress so they can get more monthly membership money, and adding more grading exams than necessary to be able to coin it in from this angle too!

I've been doing TKD for a few months now and I'm really enjoying it. The reason I've begun to question all this is that I don't feel challanged at the end of a session. I'm hungry for more and looking forward to learning it!

Thanks for your input!

--Bobby

 

[FieldDiscipline]

This organisation? http://www.blackbeltschools.com/

There is a link to the grading sylabus of the TAGB on there.

I'm shocked that there's a joining fee at all. I hadn't heard about anyone charging a joining fee until now. However, I've heard of students having to buy their own uniform. Perhaps the joining fee went towards that?

Most clubs used to have joining fees, although many of them have stopped now due to the pay monthly thing becoming more popular. It should cover your membership of the governing body, insurance and at that price uniform! I dont deem them to be a bad thing, except when excessive, as this seems to be.

Some schools do charge extra for club badges. They can be pretty expensive as they're not cheap to have made and have to be bought in bulk.

it appears my school is simply dragging out the time it takes to progress

Can you be clearer about what makes you say this? What grade are you and what patterns do you do?

 

[stoneheart]

I'm assuming the pound is roughly $2.00. If so, the prices don't sound too far out for me, but I dislike both the intermediate 'tag' ranks as well as the 45 minute classes. If you have to pay money for a tag rank, then yes I think the school owner is being a bit heavy on the money side, and I'm just not a fan of 45 minute classes. A full class with proper warmup, basics, forms, self-defense & sparring really needs to last at least an hour.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I'm assuming the pound is roughly $2.00. If so, the prices don't sound too far out for me, but I dislike both the intermediate 'tag' ranks as well as the 45 minute classes. If you have to pay money for a tag rank, then yes I think the school owner is being a bit heavy on the money side, and I'm just not a fan of 45 minute classes. A full class with proper warmup, basics, forms, self-defense & sparring really needs to last at least an hour.

I agree with your point on class length entirely.

Regarding 'tags' they are a part of the traditional rank system of Taekwondo. There are four coloured belts and tags between. This is entirely proper.

 

[Tez3]

I agree with your point on class length entirely.

Regarding 'tags' they are a part of the traditional rank system of Taekwondo. There are four coloured belts and tags between. This is entirely proper.[/quote]

That's what I'd always understood. I believe though double grading is fairly common if warrented so perhaps if they don't allow them it could be seen as milking it for the money?

Three quarters of an hour is a ridiculously short time to train in and I'm afraid I do think it expensive. According to my calculator it works out at £8 per hour! Do you get the uniform free as they are charging over the odds for them too. You could buy ours for £20!!

 

[Sukerkin]

Good input above, people :tup:.

Being somewhat 'old school' in my views, my first instinct is to say that those fees are outrageous. Joining Fees, very short lessons, expensive gradings, additional unnecesary gradings ... of course, if all your kit is provided that counterbalances somewhat.

As an alternative view, I used to pay all of £1 for three hours tuition up until recent times when the hire cost of the hall went up astronomically - so now I pay £4. My gradings happen when they are necessary and cost me £5 for kyu grades - my shodan was a tenner :shocked:.

To me those fiscal differences illustrate the difference in approach between a sensei who passes on what he has learned to new generations and one who wants to make a living out of it.

Everyone has to make their own decisions on such matters so I shall try not to 'judge' other than to say that, under the OP's noted conditions and costs I wouldn't have 'signed up'.

EDIT: Hey, Irene :waves madly: simultaneous posting ... kudos to us

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Tez, I have found double gradings to be an rare thing. Possible and great when warranted but rare and this is the way it should be. Time is required to become proficient in techniques, forms, one step etc.

Being somewhat 'old school' in my views, my first instinct is to say that those fees are outrageous... As an alternative view, I used to pay all of £1 for three hours tuition up until recent times when the hire cost of the hall went up astronomically - so now I pay £4...

That makes two of us, Sukerkin.

To me those fiscal differences illustrate the difference in approach between a sensei who passes on what he has learned to new generations and one who wants to make a living out of it.

Definately, and its a sad thing in many ways. These fees in particular are high, but no so divorced from reality that I'm shocked, £40 monthly is the highest I've seen (although I havent been looking!). The instruction better be good, and you'd better be getting a good many things included.

The more I analyse it the more expensive it seems.... End of the line, thats expensive training and if you're not happy, you could probably get the same for less elsewhere.

 

[aplonis]

That sounds like way too much to me. And 45 minutes is way too short for a session unless it is 1-on-1.

Some places you can find a club taught by an instructor who does something else entirely for his main occupation but passes on his own MA in keeping with the tradition of how he himself received it.

My current TKD teacher, a 6h dan, is a quality control statistican for the pharmaceuticals industry who teaches TKD in the aerobics room of a local hospital's health club for $20 every two months. Both he and I shared the same 1st TKD teacher who was a steelworker and taught after hours in the public school gym for $15 every two months back in the 1970's.

I hopped and skipped through my MA career, switching styles and taking long breaks. I came back to that same club in the end and co-instruct at the health club. The tuition covers the head instructor's expenses, that's all. I teach for free. I'm a full time engineer and am happy simply to carry on a fine tradition.

But clubs like ours are hard to find because we don't have an advertising budget. So no sign by the road, no phone book listing. We have two classes a week, Saturday and Sunday at two hours each.

I take Jujutsu in yet another club the membership of which is $25 a month for all their classes in all their arts. I could go there every day if I had the energy. But I only go Sundays for 2 hours because that is all the time I have.

In the past I have paid as much as $60 a month for classes in a Japanese MA at a studio that had a building, sign by the road, and phone book add. That class was only 50 minutes and most of it was wasted listening to the instructor pontificate about outright MA fables. I decided I was being ripped off. I expect that you are too.

 

[BobHope]

Thanks for all your posts. I'm getting the idea that my school is rather expensive compared to some of your experiences.

Currently I'm a yellow/green belt and have been training now for about 8 months. I've got a grading for Green belt coming up, which I'm looking forward to. I've learned Chon-Ji, Do-San, and Dan-Gun. Also upto three step number 9.

My school has the following belts...

• White
• White/Yellow
• Yellow
• Yellow/Green
• Green
• Green + Tag
• Green/Blue
• Green/Blue + Tag
• Blue
• Blue + Tag
• Blue/Red
• Blue/Red + Tag
• Red
• Red + Tag
• Red/Black
• Red/Black + Tag
• Black

Each step outlined above is awarded after a successful grading, and the gradings are held every 3 months and cost £25 each. Double belting is allowed, but not encouraged.

Thanks again,

Bobby

 

[FieldDiscipline]

My school has the following belts...

Too much mate.

You have learned good stuff, at around the right pace so far IMHO, but once those extra tags start kicking in... Dont like it. They'll add another 18 months minimum onto your pursuit of a BB and again IMHO, its done to get another 18 months of dosh out of your wallet.

Thats sealed it, very expensive and apparently, as you fear, intended to slow you down and cost you money.

Sorry to give bad news!

 

[Tez3]

I think there are sime extra belts in there. My friend runs a TKD club and we do TSD where I believe the grading system is the same? these are the ones we and my friend use.

white
white yellow tag
yellow
yellow orange tag
orange
orange green tag
green
green blue tag
blue
blue red tag
red
black with time having to be spent at red before black.

I believe most go through from 10th kup/kyu to 1st kup/kyu

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I believe most go through from 10th kup/kyu to 1st kup/kyu

With 10th kup usually being white belt, and 1st usually being red belt with black tag (or whatever belt is before black in that school).

 

[Tez3]

With 10th kup usually being white belt, and 1st usually being red belt with black tag (or whatever belt is before black in that school).

Yes that's what I understood it to be. I've been through the TSD gradings and also went through the Wado Ryu system where there are no tags, just solid belt to solid belt but with three brown belts before black. Again 10th kyu was white, 1st kyu was a brown belt with black stripe.
I went through the TSD system faster than normal admittedly because I'd already been doing Wado for over twelve years before starting TSD. The two styles are very similiar with the hyungs/katas being only slightly different. I was still graded very strictly though.

Bob, FieldDiscipline is correct, I think if you can it might be better to look for another club? I have a feeling he can help you find one near you! I can recommend local MMA clubs LOL but I don't think that'll be what you want!