The Purpose for Attacking Someone

GBlues

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Ok, I was in another thread, and apparently I'm not a very good communicator so I thought I would start a new thread about a different subject, but kind of in a round about way related, to the other thread. Have any of you ever given thought to the purpose of an attack? What is the reason for why someone would attack YOU? Well, if you haven't I have, for a very long time and the conclusion that I have come up with, is there are only two reasons for why people attack other people. The two reasons as I see it, are these 1) to cause serious injury to the person being attacked, or 2) to cause death to the person being attacked. Now I would like to talk about these one at a time.

1) Serious injury to the person being attacked: I view this as anything that is going to leave you in the hospital. Broken bones, serious knife wounds, gunshot wounds etc. Anything that is going to put you out of commission for awhile. Now, there are some inadvertant repercussions that can come from these things, for the person that was attacked. Time off of work, bills not being paid, vehicles being repossesed do to not being able to attend work, cause your arm is in a cast. Serious stress on a marriage, and home life, due to not having money to pay the bills. Your whole life may change in the blink of an eye. Now, these are not absolutes, because they depend on your job, and on how strong your marriage is depending on if your married. Also, the lack of work, if you've saved up money for a rainy day this may not really have any affect on you, but your getting where I'm going with this. At least I hope you get where I'm going with this.

2)THe other reason, is the attacker really wants to kill you. He wants to end your life. Anyway that he can find to do it, he's going try it. THere is no talking to this guy there is no, reasoning with him, his intent is to kill.

Now in between there are varying degrees of responses to this. However, I don't care if it's my best friend in the whole world. If he gets angry and loses it, he is not thinking about beating me up. He isn't thinking of anything at all, except one thing, ending the life of the person he feels is responsible for that anger. Period. People can say whatever they want, there is only one reason to fight, and that is either to stop someone from doing serious bodily injury to you as a person, or to stop them from killing you. Now, obviously we all say, well in a life or death situation, I'd do what was necassary to protect myself if i meant that I had to kill the other guy. Really? I keep reading about various degrees of response. Let me put this another way also.
(Short Fictional Story)
It's new's years night. All of your buddies are drinking and having a good time. Your a little tipsy, and goofy, but everythings cool. Your making the rounds here and there talking to everybody, and just in general it's a really good night. You come up on your best friends, wife or fiance', or even just a girlfriend. She's had a few too many, but she's hangning in there. You know she and George, ( your bestfriend) have been having some relationship issues, but nothing they can't resolve. In her drunken stupor she begins to tell you ALL about it. Being the good friend that you are you tell her, " Look, Rosie, it's really none of my business, but George loves you and you two will work it out." This makes her feel so much better that before you can react she reaches out and kisses you on the cheek. Unfortunately for her, and you George sees this. In his drunken stupor he goes into a blind rage, at such a small thing as a kiss on the cheek. He just starts swinging at you. Doing everything in his power to inflict as much damage to you as is possible. ( end story)

Now, make no mistake at this moment in the story George wants to inflict as much damage and injury to his buddy as he can. Perhaps even death. Sure tomorrow morning when he finds out what happened he'll feel really bad, but, right now he doesn't care. His old lady just kissed you, he sees it as an afront to his manhood, and wants you to pay for her mistake.

Now this is your best friend, and he wants to kill you at this moment, or cause serious bodily injury. Your responses could be to subdue him if your good enough. Try and defuse the situation by the use of parries and blending techniques. Fight fire with fire, and just take the guy out. Now if you take the guy out, this is your bestfriend, he's never flown off the handle like this before, but at the moment he's deadly. He's jumped from all around good guy, to the preverbial psycho killer. He's gone from one mentality to the other, in the drop of a hat. Now let's make matters worse he produces a knife. Remember this is your bestfriend trying to end your life. Now, the other party goers might get involved and try to stop this senselessness, but probably they are just going to call the cops. By the time they get there you may be cut to ribbons.

You going to hit this guy in the mouth and hope that, that pulls him out of his idiotic, rage? OR do you break the guys arm or kill him? Remember, he is your bestfriend. You don't want to kill the guy, or cause serious injury but, he just upped the stakes by about a 1000. You decide that you want to keep your friend. So he slashes at you with the knife. Your lucky enough to get around it without being cut and land a decent but not to hard of a punch on the side of the guys head. He drops like a rock! Your aim was off, and you hit harder than you wanted too, and got him in the temple. He ain't breathing, anymore, you just killed your bestfriend trying to spare his life, for him being stupid. Or you go for the throw, and get it, and he lands on his head, and breaks his neck! OR you break his arm, and he goes into shock.

My point being this there are alot of bad things that can happen in this scenario. You could have just thrown water in his face and that may have stopped it, probably not, but it works on dogs. You could have thrown him, and the fight stopped, and everything get worked out and then continue to the party. He'd have few bruises from the fall, but he's really no worse for wear. However, in this situation is it worth risking your life, because someone else wants to do you harm?

My opinion personally is that it doesn't matter who the person is, or what there background. When they want to attack someone, it's for one of two reasons, and no other. I have seen one brother pull a knife on the other brother, and thank god for both of them I happened to be there, and was stupid enough to get involved. I'm talking real brothers, flesh and blood, born from the same mother, having the same father. THey share the same DNA, but one lost it, and wanted to kill the other. So I don't believe it's to far of a stretch to say, " If a man attacks you he wants to kill you." If a brother will do something like that or even attempt it, a perfect strangers got no problem with it. Chew on that for awhile.:asian:
 

Flying Crane

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well, I can think of a third reason: muggings or carjackings. Ultimately they just want to get the contents of your wallet or steal your car. They may not really want to hurt you, altho they are willing to do so if necessary to complete the mugging, and they may see the infliction of some level of injury as a necessary and automatic part of the process. They might hurt you a little, or a lot, or even kill you, but that might not be the real reason for the attack.

Home break-ins and other forms of theft or robbery may fall into this category as well.

I think there are some psychopathic and/or sociopathic people who simply like to hurt people and look for an easy target to attack for no other reason.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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The scene that you describe, GI, is one of the reasons that I don't go to parties where people are getting hammered. I hold people equally responsible for their actions, drunk or sober. They chose to get drunk, and most people know what they're like drunk. If they don't know, then a large party isn't the place to find out. Needless to say, the best way to not have to deal with the drunken partygoer is to not be around them.

If 'George' knows that he has poor judgement when he drinks, then he is responsible, 100%, for each and every poor decision that he makes while he's drunk. If 'George' doesn't know, then he chose to find out at a party with people around while he's having relationship problems and he's 100% responsible for his actions.

He pulls a knife on me, yes, I will do my best to make sure that he is on the floor and not moving. Dead or unconscious, it makes no difference: he ceaced to be my friend the moment he cocked back his fist. He lost an chance of sympathy the moment he pulled a knife in a room full of witnesses.

So, I guess in short, I agree with you.

Daniel
 

tellner

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Why? All sorts of reasons. Almost all of them come down to:
  1. Money
  2. Status
  3. Sex
  4. Insanity
  5. Displaced Anger
  6. Entertainment
 

Nomad

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Hmmm... I tend to think of assaults a little differently. Either they are an ego/face situation (what're you lookin' at?) where people are either consciously or subconsiously fighting to preserve or raise their status in the group, or they're over resources (which could be money you have and he doesn't, a carjacking or even a sexual assault; the victim is a resource to the attacker)

When rage takes over, intent doesn't matter so much... whether or not your friend/girlfriend/stranger means to put you in the hospital or morgue is much less important than the fact that they can.
 
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GBlues

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Yeah but the bottom line for me anyways is that it all boils down to, they want to end your life, or put it in a serious hurting. It's not about who has the bigger set of balls. It becomes about who has the right to live. The perpetrator, the aggressor sees in his mind that he has more right to breath on this planet more than you do. Which in turn makes him feel as though he is entitled to your belongings or even your person, because he doesn't think you have the right to be on this planet, as much as he does. That's why there are car jackings, robberies, sexual assaults, and so on ans so forth. A total lack of respect for the there fellow man.
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Not all situations can be boiled down to such an 'evolutionary' imperative.

Nor, indeed, have I known many people who would turn from friend to 'killer' in such a fashion. Millenia of civilising influences have bred such savagery out of many of us - not all, it would seem by news reports but certainly the majority.

Is it the case that such unthinking violence that has been talked about above is the 'norm' in the States these days? Surely not?

If the pressures of society are such that friend can turn to foe with the flick of a switch, then it's time either to change your friends or do something about the state of the society.
 
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GBlues

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Ah but it's not just friends that can turn that fast. It's brothers too. I'm just saying in my mind that is the point to an attack. It's not to just show that, "Hey, I'm bigger and badder than you." it's put an end to somebody. Where as defense is more, I'm not goint to let you put an end to me.
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MA-Caver

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Why? All sorts of reasons. Almost all of them come down to:
  1. Money
  2. Status
  3. Sex
  4. Insanity
  5. Displaced Anger
  6. Entertainment
GI Blues... Tellner here pretty much simplifed what you wrote out (respectfully speaking).
There are as he said... All sorts of reasons.
Today while enroute home from a job interview I spied two guys doing the "c'mon with it" dance in the parking lot of some tiny mom-pop convenient store, the perverse part of me pulled over quick as I could so I could watch. NO idea what it was about and no idea how it was going to turn out... I did however made sure that my vehicle had access to be ready to get out of the area quick -- in case one of them was armed and started popping caps all over the place.
What I observed during the "dance" was definite anger on both parties. The fight ensued and briefly went to the ground and back up again and finally one guy knowing he was beat ran out and was chased for a bit before it was all over.
Anger, does drive a lot of attacks. Desperation (money/drugs) drives a lot of attacks. I dunno about status or insanity but they're up there and entertainment while may sound barbaric does happen as I've been witness and recipitent of it. :idunno: been recipient to some of the other types too with varying results.

It's understandable to desire to know the reasons "why? why me?" and the thing is you got about a 50/50 shot at finding out the reason and another 50/50 shot at comprehending the reason(s).

Thing is... does it really matter? With so many variables in the causes of attacks how can one ever know for sure much less avoid them? It's been a very VERY long time since I've been in an actual physical confrontation with anyone, been threatened with it, sure, been invited to the "c'mon with it dance", absolutely, but always managed to find an alternate route away from it. But regardless of that I haven't stopped my practicing of what skills I've learned along my own journey. I haven't stopped letting my guard down for the unexpected...
Those are things I think as MA-ist we need to concern ourselves with.
Minimizing the hurt that is intended for us (or our loved ones).
 

tellner

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MA-Caver wins the prize. It doesn't really matter why he's doing it. What matters is how to stop him. Sometimes understanding his motivation can help you find a way to make him change his mind. But that's secondary.
 
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GBlues

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GI Blues... Tellner here pretty much simplifed what you wrote out (respectfully speaking).
There are as he said... All sorts of reasons.
Today while enroute home from a job interview I spied two guys doing the "c'mon with it" dance in the parking lot of some tiny mom-pop convenient store, the perverse part of me pulled over quick as I could so I could watch. NO idea what it was about and no idea how it was going to turn out... I did however made sure that my vehicle had access to be ready to get out of the area quick -- in case one of them was armed and started popping caps all over the place.
What I observed during the "dance" was definite anger on both parties. The fight ensued and briefly went to the ground and back up again and finally one guy knowing he was beat ran out and was chased for a bit before it was all over.
Anger, does drive a lot of attacks. Desperation (money/drugs) drives a lot of attacks. I dunno about status or insanity but they're up there and entertainment while may sound barbaric does happen as I've been witness and recipitent of it. :idunno: been recipient to some of the other types too with varying results.

It's understandable to desire to know the reasons "why? why me?" and the thing is you got about a 50/50 shot at finding out the reason and another 50/50 shot at comprehending the reason(s).

Thing is... does it really matter? With so many variables in the causes of attacks how can one ever know for sure much less avoid them? It's been a very VERY long time since I've been in an actual physical confrontation with anyone, been threatened with it, sure, been invited to the "c'mon with it dance", absolutely, but always managed to find an alternate route away from it. But regardless of that I haven't stopped my practicing of what skills I've learned along my own journey. I haven't stopped letting my guard down for the unexpected...
Those are things I think as MA-ist we need to concern ourselves with.
Minimizing the hurt that is intended for us (or our loved ones).

Been a long time for me too, MA. I think though that yeah in your mind you need a reason. The reason is going to dictate your actions. I do know that there are those individuals that will fight for fun or for social standing. Which has always been beyond me. I just feel that in the heat of the moment, it's not about those things any longer. Like the two guys that you mentioned earlier. The guy that got beat was not enjoying the fight any longer and decided to run. He then got followed for a bit. Well, why? Cause the other guy wasn't done dishing out pain. That's all, he wanted to inflict as much damage on his opponent/victim as possible.

In my youth when I was in grade school and jr.highschool. I was the smallest kid in school, I got picked on a lot. For various reasons here and there. SOme because of size, or religion, or because they new that I had a bad temper and they wanted to get a rise out of me. The bottom line is I did everything that I was supposed to do. I told the teachers, I told the counselors, I told the principals. I got the same answer everytime. "Well, Nicholas your going to have to learn how to deal with these things." My parents even called the parents of one young bully, and there response was this, "Well if he's not big enough to take care of himself he deserve to get his butt kicked." Nice parents huh. One day I came home bruises all over me crying cause the kids wouldn't leave me alone. My mom told me that if I came home like that again SHE was going to whoop my ***. My dad told me, "Son I don't know what to tell you. Your gonna' have to fight back." From that day on, from 1st grade till 10th I fought everyday of my life. I didn't fight for social status or for entertainment. I fought because I wanted people to leave me the hell alone, and let me be. I did what it took to make that happen. I never killed anybody, but it was my objective, to end them, because they were NOT going to stop any other way.

I guess that's why I feel that way. People are mean and evil, ( most not all), in my opinion. Bullies, and attackers find those that they think are weaker, and smaller than them, and choose to make there life a living hell, when all the person wants is to live there life in peace. You, me, and everybody else on this planet has just as much right to be here as those that attempt to make us victims of their violence. I've never seen any other reason to fight other than to prove that right, because someone else wants to take it from you. I can't explain how I feel about the subject any other way. I just feel like every confrontation I've ever been in, it was for my life, in one aspect or the other. Whether they were or not, I was playing for keeps. I don't know if that makes any sense or not.....:asian:
 

sgtmac_46

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If we're going to divide up violence we need to start with the overall motive of the violence....which falls in to two categories...


Defensive Violence......which includes ego defense, and the sorts of violence where someone is insulted and feels that violence is their recourse to defend their ego....the key with defensive violence is that motive.

Predatory Violence......where violence is instrumental toward gaining something from the victim.....



Why that distinction matters is this......Defensive Violence is predictable, you can see a person build toward defensive aggression, defensive aggression often begins with visible signs, agitation, posturing, threatening behavior......most defensive violence can be avoided if caught early and whatever the person is defending ceases to be threatened.


Predatory violence is far less predictable......the good predator does not act agitated, does not threaten before attacking, does show visible signs.....undetected movement for total surprise on the enemy. Predator violence is conducted by ambush.......there is no predictable escalation and de-escalation......



This duality is demonstrated even in the method of attack........one may use a weapon in defense, but often it will be displayed first as a ward........the predator will shield his weapon until it's ready for use.



HOW we respond will be determined by which one of these is the overall motive for the attack.......if it's defensive, de-escalation may work. If it's predatory, forget de-escalation as he's not defending his ego, he wants to TAKE something of yours!
 
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GBlues

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If we're going to divide up violence we need to start with the overall motive of the violence....which falls in to two categories...


Defensive Violence......which includes ego defense, and the sorts of violence where someone is insulted and feels that violence is their recourse to defend their ego....the key with defensive violence is that motive.

Predatory Violence......where violence is instrumental toward gaining something from the victim.....



Why that distinction matters is this......Defensive Violence is predictable, you can see a person build toward defensive aggression, defensive aggression often begins with visible signs, agitation, posturing, threatening behavior......most defensive violence can be avoided if caught early and whatever the person is defending ceases to be threatened.


Predatory violence is far less predictable......the good predator does not act agitated, does not threaten before attacking, does show visible signs.....undetected movement for total surprise on the enemy. Predator violence is conducted by ambush.......there is no predictable escalation and de-escalation......



This duality is demonstrated even in the method of attack........one may use a weapon in defense, but often it will be displayed first as a ward........the predator will shield his weapon until it's ready for use.



HOW we respond will be determined by which one of these is the overall motive for the attack.......if it's defensive, de-escalation may work. If it's predatory, forget de-escalation as he's not defending his ego, he wants to TAKE something of yours!

True, true, never thought of that.
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MA-Caver

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While I would agree that the aforementioned types of violence by Sarge is definitely there... they just don't stand alone by themselves.
Take for example the conflict currently going on in Israel/Gaza right now.
WHOEVER fired the first shot... was that defensive or predatory? No weapons were concealed there... either side knew the other was heavily armed.

There's anger violence category as well. Goading a person to the point where they explode in anger (irrational I'll agree) and commit acts of violence towards whatever/whomever is making them angry. Also not all violence is physical.

There's also non-aggressive violence. Which is usually harmless unless you get in it's direct path. Demolition workers, miners, loggers, animal processors (the ones who kill the animals just prior to butchering), firefighters breaking down walls and doors and so on. Some are I would agree could fall into either predatory or defensive... but I'm of different mind set.

There's violence committed by insanity (temporary or permanent). Neither can be placed in either predatory or defensive because violence is driven more by intent and emotion.
 

Deaf Smith

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Some do it just for kicks. Remember the 'wildings' where packs of them would kill or rape just for the fun. 'Thrill killers' is also a term that comes into mind. They say they have never seen someone die and want to find out what it is like to kill someone or beat them up.

Yes there are many reasons. Some quite understandable, others, in a twisted way, can be said to be logical. But some just have no rational explanation, at least to most of us.

Deaf
 

Rich Parsons

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Why? All sorts of reasons. Almost all of them come down to:
  1. Money
  2. Status
  3. Sex
  4. Insanity
  5. Displaced Anger
  6. Entertainment

My List:
1) Check - people looking to get something of yours.

2) Check - people looking to beat up the big guy.

3) Check - People upset for talking to someone or them being upset for someone else's choice. (* Note: I was never upset with the ex's Boyfriend, my loss of respect was for the ex. *)

4) Check - Insanity covers a lot here. There are those that are just out there. Totally gone. Then there are those that would beat you to stop you from talking.

5) Check - Displaced Anger which could be with some of the above as well, including the beating to get you to stop or for a spouse's choice.

6) Check - and many do it for fun. They ENJOY the adrenaline rush. They enjoy the telling of stories afterwards. Some might call this Insanity, but it should be separate as people can be functioning members of society.

7) Drugs - People on Drugs may not know where they are. They might be re-living a past experience. They might be feeling trapt. (* Check *)

8) Medical - people who are not insane, but have some form of medical or genetic issue that makes them violent or they might feel trapt and are only looking to "Get Away" to the "Can Breath". (* Check *)

9) Sleep Walkers - People who walk in their sleep and when confronted get violent. They are not insane, they might not be truly conscious, but they are not insane. They might just be following the yellow line down the road (* Check *), or they might be trying to get to someone or some place.

10) More and more I am sure others will add.



I checked the ones I have personally encountered.
 

bluekey88

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In my mind (and the research seems toback this up), every behavior a person engages in, no matter how "crazy" or random it may appear to be serves a purpose. IN general terms, we do things to get something (money, attention, access to a person, food, etc.), to get away from/stop something (stop pain, get away from a non-desired place or activity), because it feels good or is an automatic/instictual response.

These ideas hold true for aggression as well. People are aggressive to get something (rob, steal, etc.) to stop something (you're trying to rob/steal...they want you to stop), or becasue it feels good/automatic/internal response (competition, in the grip of drugs/alcohol, in the grip of psychiatric disorder, etc.)

Not all aggression is meant to maim, injure or kill...I can think of a number of situations I've been in where the aggression was more like a tantrum and as long as you're not in the zone of the tantrum you won't get hit. In cases like that...being able to intervene without causing injury is important. However, being able to take things to the line (maim, injure or kill another) is also a possibility that we all need to consider before putting our hands on another.

Peace,
Erik
 

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*Insecurity,
*Lack of social skills,
*Doesn't want to work,
*Primitive mind set,
*Insecure around the opposet sex,
*Psychopath,
*Initiation rituals,
*etc, etc etc.
Judge Colt is the only Therapist that can cure them all.
 

Tez3

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What I've found in my job and with certain people it is a sense of outrage that a woman can have any 'power' ie as a police officer, over them. they are outraged if a woman even speaks to them. We have visiting soldiers from other countries training here and often the ones from strict Muslim countries will spit at the uniformed females if they try to talk to them or if we ask for ID etc when on access control duties they will go to strike you just for asking. We've refused to be intimidated but now have dog handlers accompany us at these times as they hate dogs even worse than women lol!
So I would say hatred of a group or race is a reason for attacking.
 

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